Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:06 pm

kirankara wrote:Saint generally I respect your views, but call me stupid if you want, but I'm ptretty certain Rafa amongst other managers in Europe looked at Villa and balked at the hefty price tag that seemed to go upwards of 30 million, as does that of Aguero and even that of eto if rumours are true, and considering ronaldinho went for 16 million(allthough with clauses regarding qualification for champs league it exceeds 20 million) this isnt hard to believe. I know realistically you can probably knock a few million of these quotes, but still it makes the combined totals upwards of 50 million at least.Add to that the phenomenal wages they will demand, eto rumoured to want well over 100 thousand a week, and suddenly these arent such financially viable tranfer targets. Also Villa has publicly stated he doesnt want a tranfer as has Silva, so why is everyone still obsessed with these players when we simply cant afford them and the clubs dont seem to want to sell especially not to us for peanuts. Think people need to realise that we are poor at moment cmpared to some other clubs and we are having to do dell boy style wheeler dealing left right and centre.Im sure me, you and Rafa would love to play fantasy football with monopoly money but lets face facts we are the greatest football club in the world owned by two tight yanks, and everyone knows it, we are having to sell playersfor less than we wanted just to buy players we have targeted, and even then any decent players that will improve us are going to be from clubs of similar stature in football who wont let players go cheap or are facing losing their best players and therefore the same applies. One final thing is will the people who keep saying"but frank lampard is getting sold for 8 million therefore barry and keane prices are a JOKE" well Frank is two years older than both and has one year left on contract. WAKE UP PEOPLE we are greatest club in world cause of our supporters and our history, and we will get back to the top, but we are having to do this the hard way, there are no magical fixes, unless an abrahmovic figure comes in and gives us billions to play with. Chelsea and Man U currently can outspend us on one player, and then go buy another for same price again. chelsea have reportedly bidded 80 million for kaka, Man u bidded 25 for Berbatov, we are having to to pick up 4-5 players for prices that chelsea can bid for 1. We are going to have to be patient and bide our time and hope Rafa can pull off miracles cause this is what realistically it needs to break their stranglehold on title, cause we cant match them financially and afford to bring in the top players in world according to players on paper, we have to rely on good management, desire of players, a few risks in signing players that dont make the all star fantasy football world eleven and a whole lot of luck to win this league. Sorry bout the rant, but its been building up all summer lol.
As our anthem says Walk on throughthe wind and the rain(not just the glory days, we are not man u) YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE

Surely the fact that we don't have a huge warchest should mean we have to take more care in who we buy and for how much. If we were buying Barry for around £12 to £15 million and Robbie Keane for around £10 to £12million I would accept that they are good deals..... 2 good players for around £25million. Paying almost £40million however means we are getting our pants pulled down and taking a hell of a slapping.

Once the prices went skyward we should have pulled out and looked elsewhere, unless Villa and Spurs drop their prices we should look to buy abroad.

We have already seen O'Neill starting to panic because we haven't sent in another bid!

Maybe some of the players I quoted would be more expensive and out of our reach....... others wouldn't, and it might just bring a bit of realism back to our English targets prices if they thought we were seriously considering other options.

Rafa is not going to pull off any miracles paying well over the top for good players, not when their are top quality players available for a similar fee.

Chelsea can afford to pay a few million extra just to get the deal signed...... we can't..... so we have to shop clever rather than throw money away paying way over the odds.

Look at Juventus and their dealings over Alonso, we wouldn't sell at the price they wanted to pay........so they went elsewhere. We should do the same, its not as if they are the only options available to us.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:21 pm

Saint for new Chief Exec

youve just said it all really with that post i for one am fed up with us bein taken for mugs

by **Number 9** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:35 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Saint for new Chief Exec

youve just said it all really with that post i for one am fed up with us bein taken for mugs

Mugs or Bingo?

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:48 pm

Number 9 wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Saint for new Chief Exec

youve just said it all really with that post i for one am fed up with us bein taken for mugs

Mugs or Bingo?

Fed up with that aswell only managed to win 75 pound in the last 2 times ive been.

Saints right though in what he says although Barry and Keane are good players and yes i wouldnt mind them here (not by selling Xabi though) there not worth that amount when we could go abroard and get someone cheaper .

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:53 pm

Just to readdress the balance a good article about Robbie Keane :-

Source : Martin Jol for the Times

In the Tottenham dressing room I pinned up a motto: “The Team is the Star”. If any player sums up that philosophy, it’s Robbie Keane. Normally it’s not the best combination to have a striker as your skipper. Robbie is different. He’ll do any job a manager asks and seeks togetherness with teammates socially as well as on the pitch. Character-wise, if you had 11 Robbie Keanes on your side, you’d have a chance of winning any game.

Robbie doesn’t play the game for personal accolades but deserves any which come his way, and yesterday he reached 100 against Sunderland. Only two other players in the past 30 years have reached a century. Their identities, Teddy Sheringham and Glenn Hoddle, show how special it is. At Spurs, Robbie is appreciated, the fans regularly voting him player of the year, but I wonder whether in the country he gets the recognition he deserves. He is only 27 and hardly any other striker in England comes up with the goods so regularly. He’s worth £15m to £20m - at least. Nobody scored more times in the Premier League in the calendar year of 2007 than Robbie. But the statistic which is even more revealing involves his number of goals away from home. It’s about 50%, and it’s a very rare footballer who performs as well in hostile stadiums as on his own ground. In my time as Spurs manager, Dimitar Berbatov didn’t come close to 50%. Robbie’s consistency is a result of his coolness and character. It’s a big reason why after two years of saying “I have three first-choice strikers though only two can play”, I changed my policy and announced “Robbie is my No 1”.

In my first six months it was difficult for Robbie, he was a substitute almost as often as he played from the start. He moaned, like most footballers would, but his effort and performance didn’t drop in training or in games. He scored a number of important goals during that period coming on as a substitute and that reflected well on him. Many strikers you put on the bench sit there with a miserable face and when you send them on, their attitude is: “I’m only involved for 20 minutes, what can I do? If I don’t score nobody will complain.”

Robbie would charge onto the pitch, desperate to get a goal and a win for the team. And when he played from the start and I substituted him, he hated it. He’d rather stay on the pitch and move to left-back than clock off early. This made him a great player to have when you needed to make a tactical change.

You could tell Robbie to move wide and close down the full-backs to stop the opposition starting attacks from the flanks, and he’d do it happily. Similarly, with Berbatov being a real No 9 I needed his partner to be more of a No 10 and Robbie adapted without asking questions. He developed into a good provider of assists.

When I first set eyes on the Tottenham squad, I would not have put Robbie among those who stood out as natural athletes. Then we did the physical tests. Quickest over 10 yards? Robbie. Over 20? Robbie was second only to Ledley King. Stamina? He was near the top in those tests. Later, Aaron Lennon would arrive and take the mantle of the club’s top speed merchant but Robbie (and Ledley) still ran him close.

On top of that, I’d seldom seen a player who could score in such a variety of ways. Robbie gets goals with his right foot, left foot, from volleys, chips and free kicks. The only things he can’t do are tackle and head the ball. He has an ability with penalties which is almost unique - most players decide in advance which side they’ll put the ball but Robbie runs up, watches the keeper and makes his choice in the very last milliseconds.

Off the pitch he can be a funny guy. I’ve always enjoyed having Irishmen in my dressing room. They love companionship. In my experience, they do everything they can to ensure there’s a good atmosphere and spirit, whether it’s organising games on the team bus or sitting down next to a guy who is by himself in the training ground canteen. Andy Reid was similar. I remember on a preseason trip to France, Andy and Robbie leading everyone in a round of singing until 4am. I didn’t want to stop them, I thought: “This is what a football team is all about.”

In Holland we say: “Be a man in the night and a man in the morning.” That means if you want to stay out until the early hours having a drink, don’t be a sissy the next day. Be a man and get on with your work. Irish players are like that.

Robbie is good at making new players welcome. Some fans didn’t agree, but when Ledley was injured he was my automatic choice to be captain. It puzzled me that only once during my time did another club - Everton - try to buy him. I look at some of the strikers being signed by Europe’s top clubs and think Robbie’s better. It would have been nice if goal No 100 had come against Arsenal on Tuesday but I knew Robbie would score yesterday.

by **Paul C** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:11 pm

Spot on Saint!!! it's not like were spending peanuts, their are other quality players available for £16m who are as good as Barry imo, but the bonus of Barry is he's tried and tested in the prem and plays well alongside Gerrard.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:45 pm

s@int wrote:Just to readdress the balance a good article about Robbie Keane :-

Source : Martin Jol for the Times

In the Tottenham dressing room I pinned up a motto: “The Team is the Star”. If any player sums up that philosophy, it’s Robbie Keane. Normally it’s not the best combination to have a striker as your skipper. Robbie is different. He’ll do any job a manager asks and seeks togetherness with teammates socially as well as on the pitch. Character-wise, if you had 11 Robbie Keanes on your side, you’d have a chance of winning any game.

Robbie doesn’t play the game for personal accolades but deserves any which come his way, and yesterday he reached 100 against Sunderland. Only two other players in the past 30 years have reached a century. Their identities, Teddy Sheringham and Glenn Hoddle, show how special it is. At Spurs, Robbie is appreciated, the fans regularly voting him player of the year, but I wonder whether in the country he gets the recognition he deserves. He is only 27 and hardly any other striker in England comes up with the goods so regularly. He’s worth £15m to £20m - at least. Nobody scored more times in the Premier League in the calendar year of 2007 than Robbie. But the statistic which is even more revealing involves his number of goals away from home. It’s about 50%, and it’s a very rare footballer who performs as well in hostile stadiums as on his own ground. In my time as Spurs manager, Dimitar Berbatov didn’t come close to 50%. Robbie’s consistency is a result of his coolness and character. It’s a big reason why after two years of saying “I have three first-choice strikers though only two can play”, I changed my policy and announced “Robbie is my No 1”.

In my first six months it was difficult for Robbie, he was a substitute almost as often as he played from the start. He moaned, like most footballers would, but his effort and performance didn’t drop in training or in games. He scored a number of important goals during that period coming on as a substitute and that reflected well on him. Many strikers you put on the bench sit there with a miserable face and when you send them on, their attitude is: “I’m only involved for 20 minutes, what can I do? If I don’t score nobody will complain.”

Robbie would charge onto the pitch, desperate to get a goal and a win for the team. And when he played from the start and I substituted him, he hated it. He’d rather stay on the pitch and move to left-back than clock off early. This made him a great player to have when you needed to make a tactical change.

You could tell Robbie to move wide and close down the full-backs to stop the opposition starting attacks from the flanks, and he’d do it happily. Similarly, with Berbatov being a real No 9 I needed his partner to be more of a No 10 and Robbie adapted without asking questions. He developed into a good provider of assists.

When I first set eyes on the Tottenham squad, I would not have put Robbie among those who stood out as natural athletes. Then we did the physical tests. Quickest over 10 yards? Robbie. Over 20? Robbie was second only to Ledley King. Stamina? He was near the top in those tests. Later, Aaron Lennon would arrive and take the mantle of the club’s top speed merchant but Robbie (and Ledley) still ran him close.

On top of that, I’d seldom seen a player who could score in such a variety of ways. Robbie gets goals with his right foot, left foot, from volleys, chips and free kicks. The only things he can’t do are tackle and head the ball. He has an ability with penalties which is almost unique - most players decide in advance which side they’ll put the ball but Robbie runs up, watches the keeper and makes his choice in the very last milliseconds.

Off the pitch he can be a funny guy. I’ve always enjoyed having Irishmen in my dressing room. They love companionship. In my experience, they do everything they can to ensure there’s a good atmosphere and spirit, whether it’s organising games on the team bus or sitting down next to a guy who is by himself in the training ground canteen. Andy Reid was similar. I remember on a preseason trip to France, Andy and Robbie leading everyone in a round of singing until 4am. I didn’t want to stop them, I thought: “This is what a football team is all about.”

In Holland we say: “Be a man in the night and a man in the morning.” That means if you want to stay out until the early hours having a drink, don’t be a sissy the next day. Be a man and get on with your work. Irish players are like that.

Robbie is good at making new players welcome. Some fans didn’t agree, but when Ledley was injured he was my automatic choice to be captain. It puzzled me that only once during my time did another club - Everton - try to buy him. I look at some of the strikers being signed by Europe’s top clubs and think Robbie’s better. It would have been nice if goal No 100 had come against Arsenal on Tuesday but I knew Robbie would score yesterday.

If this is a true reflection of the player, than I'd like some of that please! :nod

This is exactly the kind of player we are looking for--someone with character on and off the pitch and who puts the team first. I'm quite excited by the prospect of signing Keane. :cool:

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:04 pm

One word of caution Bob, remember Martin Jol also predicted Kuyt would score 20 goals a season and make 20 goals a season for us.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:31 pm

If Keane is definitely signing for us, that's a good thing.

Shame we couldn't have signed him about five years ago.

But it's good news.

by **Toffeehater** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:46 pm

s@int wrote:
kirankara wrote:Saint generally I respect your views, but call me stupid if you want, but I'm ptretty certain Rafa amongst other managers in Europe looked at Villa and balked at the hefty price tag that seemed to go upwards of 30 million, as does that of Aguero and even that of eto if rumours are true, and considering ronaldinho went for 16 million(allthough with clauses regarding qualification for champs league it exceeds 20 million) this isnt hard to believe. I know realistically you can probably knock a few million of these quotes, but still it makes the combined totals upwards of 50 million at least.Add to that the phenomenal wages they will demand, eto rumoured to want well over 100 thousand a week, and suddenly these arent such financially viable tranfer targets. Also Villa has publicly stated he doesnt want a tranfer as has Silva, so why is everyone still obsessed with these players when we simply cant afford them and the clubs dont seem to want to sell especially not to us for peanuts. Think people need to realise that we are poor at moment cmpared to some other clubs and we are having to do dell boy style wheeler dealing left right and centre.Im sure me, you and Rafa would love to play fantasy football with monopoly money but lets face facts we are the greatest football club in the world owned by two tight yanks, and everyone knows it, we are having to sell playersfor less than we wanted just to buy players we have targeted, and even then any decent players that will improve us are going to be from clubs of similar stature in football who wont let players go cheap or are facing losing their best players and therefore the same applies. One final thing is will the people who keep saying"but frank lampard is getting sold for 8 million therefore barry and keane prices are a JOKE" well Frank is two years older than both and has one year left on contract. WAKE UP PEOPLE we are greatest club in world cause of our supporters and our history, and we will get back to the top, but we are having to do this the hard way, there are no magical fixes, unless an abrahmovic figure comes in and gives us billions to play with. Chelsea and Man U currently can outspend us on one player, and then go buy another for same price again. chelsea have reportedly bidded 80 million for kaka, Man u bidded 25 for Berbatov, we are having to to pick up 4-5 players for prices that chelsea can bid for 1. We are going to have to be patient and bide our time and hope Rafa can pull off miracles cause this is what realistically it needs to break their stranglehold on title, cause we cant match them financially and afford to bring in the top players in world according to players on paper, we have to rely on good management, desire of players, a few risks in signing players that dont make the all star fantasy football world eleven and a whole lot of luck to win this league. Sorry bout the rant, but its been building up all summer lol.
As our anthem says Walk on throughthe wind and the rain(not just the glory days, we are not man u) YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE

Surely the fact that we don't have a huge warchest should mean we have to take more care in who we buy and for how much. If we were buying Barry for around £12 to £15 million and Robbie Keane for around £10 to £12million I would accept that they are good deals..... 2 good players for around £25million. Paying almost £40million however means we are getting our pants pulled down and taking a hell of a slapping.

Once the prices went skyward we should have pulled out and looked elsewhere, unless Villa and Spurs drop their prices we should look to buy abroad.

We have already seen O'Neill starting to panic because we haven't sent in another bid!

Maybe some of the players I quoted would be more expensive and out of our reach....... others wouldn't, and it might just bring a bit of realism back to our English targets prices if they thought we were seriously considering other options.

Rafa is not going to pull off any miracles paying well over the top for good players, not when their are top quality players available for a similar fee.

Chelsea can afford to pay a few million extra just to get the deal signed...... we can't..... so we have to shop clever rather than throw money away paying way over the odds.

Look at Juventus and their dealings over Alonso, we wouldn't sell at the price they wanted to pay........so they went elsewhere. We should do the same, its not as if they are the only options available to us.

good post mate , but i would still wnat barry and keane here as i feel they could deffo help the squad push for the title , barry replacing alonso , and keane that 2nd striker that we always needed and one who actually gets the goals and is hardworking

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:57 pm

s@int wrote:One word of caution Bob, remember Martin Jol also predicted Kuyt would score 20 goals a season and make 20 goals a season for us.

Bugger.

by **heimdall** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:34 pm

Who are these other available, cheaper and better players you are thinking about Saint and Nanny?

Personally I think Barry and Keane would be fantastic signings.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:44 pm

heimdall wrote:Who are these other available, cheaper and better players you are thinking about Saint and Nanny?

Personally I think Barry and Keane would be fantastic signings.

Hiemdell i agree mate they both would be good signings but its the price thats being quoted for them thats what got me bothered . There both about 28 years old theve been good players for there repective clubs but they havnt set the football world alight now have they. Obviously playing for a better side like us could do that,
But i just think there both valued way over the top.

by **whylongball?** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:59 pm

s@int wrote:One word of caution Bob, remember Martin Jol also predicted Kuyt would score 20 goals a season and make 20 goals a season for us.

Keane has around the same work rate, better technique, faster speed, better movement. He should score more

He would be higher priority than barry and the price seems acceptable at 18 mil

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:48 am

I think one of the reasons that we are being asked to pay over the odds for both Keane and Barry is that its a bit like someone trying to buy Carra off us...... the price we would want (if we were a selling club)would be way more than Carra is actually worth as a player.

As for players I would like to see us interested in....... Diego, Van Der Vaart, Arshavin, Silva, all around £15million..........Aguero, Eto'o, Villa £20+million - all top quality players, and while we may only be able to buy one of the more expensive ones, if we keep Alonso I see no real problem. Plus there must be loads more I have either forgotten or never heard of that would fit the bill.

Players that we could buy for what they are actually worth rather than players we are paying a hefty premium for because like Carra they want more than their real value.

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