Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:03 pm

While I would not advocate blooding too many youth players in Premiership matches early in the season (giving the young lads a go in league games late in the season, if we're out of contention is another matter), I do think we should be playing a fair few of them in the domestic cups. While most supporters seem to accept that approach in the Carling Cup and are philosophical about getting knocked out, I think that we need to be a bit more forgiving of that approach in the FA Cup. Yes, it's a venerable trophy and its emminently winnable most years but, if we take the longer view, getting some of our young talent a proper match in the senior squad might lay the foundation for even greater success down the road. That won't happen, though, as long as Barnsley and Burnley keep getting carped about.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:07 pm

Bad Bob wrote:While I would not advocate blooding too many youth players in Premiership matches early in the season (giving the young lads a go in league games late in the season, if we're out of contention is another matter), I do think we should be playing a fair few of them in the domestic cups. While most supporters seem to accept that approach in the Carling Cup and are philosophical about getting knocked out, I think that we need to be a bit more forgiving of that approach in the FA Cup. Yes, it's a venerable trophy and its emminently winnable most years but, if we take the longer view, getting some of our young talent a proper match in the senior squad might lay the foundation for even greater success down the road. That won't happen, though, as long as Barnsley and Burnley keep getting carped about.

thx bob some one with a positive comment and some one that understood where i am comming from at some level.

But i think we need to be more agressive with our youth team and do play them in prem more mabye not early on but they need to get for the feel of high end matchs and pressure that comes with it.

by **stmichael** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:41 pm

hello_red wrote:Well from what I have seen if a game is not going our way the atmosphere is dreadful at Anfield! We go on a bout the 12th man, we are losing it! At some games its like watching a training ground session!

Awful considering we USED to be famed for our ground and its atmosphere.

i blame the ooters, of which i'm one

by **tubby** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:48 pm

Ooters eh?

Feck off.

I sing just as much as any of you scousers and i dont hail from Mersyside so :censored:

what?

by **stmichael** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:49 pm

bavlondon wrote:Ooters eh?

Feck off.

I sing just as much as any of you scousers and i dont hail from Mersyside so what?

chill out man. it was a joke.

i was imagining what stu would say.

by **Rafa D** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:28 pm

No, we are definitely not hurting our chances.

If Rafa doesn't play the young lads, thats Rafa's decision and therefore its Rafa's fault. Personally I feel this season is the season that Rafa HAS to try and intergrate some of the youth he brought in, into the first team. He has been here for 4 years now doing things his way. When he got here and each season after that, he brought in a lot of youngsters and said he was building for the future of Liverpool. He has give us fleeting glimspes of players like El Zhar and Insua but this year, personally I would like to see the younger players given a chance.

For example Nemeth was brought in by Rafa and has supposedly set the world alight in the reserves for the past 2 seasons, he's about 19 now, if he is going to make it now is the time to see. I can't see why we should play Voronin, when we have a young hungry striker who is flying in the reserves and dying to prove himself in the first team. He cannot do any worse than Voronin in my opinion. Same with a number of other players who are reaching the ages of 18, 19 and 20.

I'd like to see Insua, Plessis, Nemeth and Pacheco near the first team a lot more this year, these are the players who seem to be creating the most noises and I can't see why they can't be involved a bit more especially with the 2 lads up front.

by **Rafa D** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:34 pm

Bad Bob wrote:While I would not advocate blooding too many youth players in Premiership matches early in the season (giving the young lads a go in league games late in the season, if we're out of contention is another matter), I do think we should be playing a fair few of them in the domestic cups. While most supporters seem to accept that approach in the Carling Cup and are philosophical about getting knocked out, I think that we need to be a bit more forgiving of that approach in the FA Cup. Yes, it's a venerable trophy and its emminently winnable most years but, if we take the longer view, getting some of our young talent a proper match in the senior squad might lay the foundation for even greater success down the road. That won't happen, though, as long as Barnsley and Burnley keep getting carped about.

I don't agree mate, the way things are going in every competition, I want to win them all. I don't think we should afford Rafa the luxury of not caring about the Carling Cup, sure he can rest players but do it properly.

For instance, rest the league stalwarts such as Gerrard, Torres, Carra, Reina. But the others are used to so much rotation they stay fit anyhows. I would like to see a good 8 or 9 first teamers in the League Cup starting eleven with 3 youngsters (ala Plessis, Insua, Nemeth). Putting 11 ressies out is not helping them, sure they are playing against better opposition but they are playing with the same players. You need to get them in a first team scenerio learning how the first team players, Having Plessis in the centre with Xabi/Masch/Barry? or Duran/Flynn and Spearing and who is going to learn more from?

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:41 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:While I would not advocate blooding too many youth players in Premiership matches early in the season (giving the young lads a go in league games late in the season, if we're out of contention is another matter), I do think we should be playing a fair few of them in the domestic cups. While most supporters seem to accept that approach in the Carling Cup and are philosophical about getting knocked out, I think that we need to be a bit more forgiving of that approach in the FA Cup. Yes, it's a venerable trophy and its emminently winnable most years but, if we take the longer view, getting some of our young talent a proper match in the senior squad might lay the foundation for even greater success down the road. That won't happen, though, as long as Barnsley and Burnley keep getting carped about.

I don't agree mate, the way things are going in every competition, I want to win them all. I don't think we should afford Rafa the luxury of not caring about the Carling Cup, sure he can rest players but do it properly.

For instance, rest the league stalwarts such as Gerrard, Torres, Carra, Reina. But the others are used to so much rotation they stay fit anyhows. I would like to see a good 8 or 9 first teamers in the League Cup starting eleven with 3 youngsters (ala Plessis, Insua, Nemeth). Putting 11 ressies out is not helping them, sure they are playing against better opposition but they are playing with the same players. You need to get them in a first team scenerio learning how the first team players, Having Plessis in the centre with Xabi/Masch/Barry? or Duran/Flynn and Spearing and who is going to learn more from?

That's actually what I had in mind, Doddy...not a wholesale switch to a youth 11 for the domestic cups but a blend of youth and first teamers. I should have clarified what I meant by a "fair few," which, to me, is something in the order of 4-5 of the most promising lads per match. You're spot on, though, that these lads need seasoning by playing alongside first teamers. And it needs to be proper first teamers. Rest Gerrard and Torres by all means but don't waste an opportunity by selecting Voronin and Pennant to play with the kids--put them in there with some members of our best 11 (or 14?) and see how they go. That's especially true of the strikers. If they don't get the service, how will they show what they can do? If Nemeth and/or Pacheco play, they need quality players behind them to provide the support.

by **Rafa D** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:49 pm

Can see that now mate, must of read it wrong.

Will Rafa employ that approach though? When he played Torres this year in the League Cup 3rd, I was like WTF? Especially because he had been rested at Pompey seemingly for the League Cup? Torres and Gerrard shouldn't be anywhere near the League Cup until the semi's in my mind.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:55 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:When he played Torres this year in the League Cup 3rd, I was like WTF? Especially because he had been rested at Pompey seemingly for the League Cup? Torres and Gerrard shouldn't be anywhere near the League Cup until the semi's in my mind.

Stick around, mate. I think Mick might have a word or two thousand to say on that subject when he logs in!

by **hello_red** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:17 pm

Owzat

by **Number 9** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:41 pm

This thread is Fu*king mad!

I dont understand how the fans have anything to do with the teams success or lack of it.I guess there could be more atmosphere at Anfield in certain uninspiring League matches...a lot of the time the Kop is the only stand that makes the noise.
Even though fans expectations or the atmosphere would not in my opinion change anything significantly!

As for the young players.
A lot may not agree but i would use them a lot of them in the FA and League cups.Vital experience and also it would help keep our more important players fresh rather than having them rotated in and out of a team going for 4 seperate competitions!

AND LEGBARNES can you please change your text colour,no offence but its hard to read and annoying as fu'ck!

by **Sabre** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:19 pm

I disagree the original post. The pressure is not because of the fans but because of the history. It's those leagues and those cups that Liverpool have won what gives them pressure, not the fans.

When it comes to the fans, I think they do not anything but support. Sure, in games against Sunderland you cannot hear the same noise as in the games against Chelsea, but when you compare to other crowds, Liverpool supporters are the best:

* They don't boo the players that are playing badly.

* We discuss here about the manager, but in the stadium all they do is to support both the team and the manager.

* They outsing many local crowds in their games away.

I think a Liverpool supporter always expects the best of the team, but when we've seen the team struggling we could not hear the crowd offloading the frustration on the players.

If I was hijacked for months and I was rescued and sent to the Madrid, Valencia Stadiums, I could tell you what's the position of the team in the league only hearing their fans, as their frustration is seen soon enough in form of protest.

I think that you couldn't tell much difference in Anfield either if you're first or sixth, because they always support the team. There's pressure yes, but it's not set by the crowd in Anfield.

by **dawson99** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:23 pm

just be nice to hear what the crowd sound like when we are 1st

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:50 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:While I would not advocate blooding too many youth players in Premiership matches early in the season (giving the young lads a go in league games late in the season, if we're out of contention is another matter), I do think we should be playing a fair few of them in the domestic cups. While most supporters seem to accept that approach in the Carling Cup and are philosophical about getting knocked out, I think that we need to be a bit more forgiving of that approach in the FA Cup. Yes, it's a venerable trophy and its emminently winnable most years but, if we take the longer view, getting some of our young talent a proper match in the senior squad might lay the foundation for even greater success down the road. That won't happen, though, as long as Barnsley and Burnley keep getting carped about.

I don't agree mate, the way things are going in every competition, I want to win them all. I don't think we should afford Rafa the luxury of not caring about the Carling Cup, sure he can rest players but do it properly.

For instance, rest the league stalwarts such as Gerrard, Torres, Carra, Reina. But the others are used to so much rotation they stay fit anyhows. I would like to see a good 8 or 9 first teamers in the League Cup starting eleven with 3 youngsters (ala Plessis, Insua, Nemeth). Putting 11 ressies out is not helping them, sure they are playing against better opposition but they are playing with the same players. You need to get them in a first team scenerio learning how the first team players, Having Plessis in the centre with Xabi/Masch/Barry? or Duran/Flynn and Spearing and who is going to learn more from?

That's actually what I had in mind, Doddy...not a wholesale switch to a youth 11 for the domestic cups but a blend of youth and first teamers. I should have clarified what I meant by a "fair few," which, to me, is something in the order of 4-5 of the most promising lads per match. You're spot on, though, that these lads need seasoning by playing alongside first teamers. And it needs to be proper first teamers. Rest Gerrard and Torres by all means but don't waste an opportunity by selecting Voronin and Pennant to play with the kids--put them in there with some members of our best 11 (or 14?) and see how they go. That's especially true of the strikers. If they don't get the service, how will they show what they can do? If Nemeth and/or Pacheco play, they need quality players behind them to provide the support.

yeah no point putting out 11 youths that isnt gonna help them keep spine where pos and play them with likes of gerrard carra torres to show them how the real boys do it.

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