Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:45 pm

Was just thinking, with the Juventus interest seemingly cooling a little and the arrival of Barry surely iminent. If it's the case that we need a few quid, if it's the case that we would have too many central midfielders who aren't going to play? What if my "opening day of the season" team is correct?

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Kuyt Gerrard Masherano Barry

Keane

Torres

Who would people want off the bench, first change, first option if someone got injured? If a team came in and gave us back what we paid for Lucas plus a mill or two (which I believe is possible) then would it be an option, or even a possibility?

Alonso strikes me as the sort of lad who is a top pro and could accept not being picked for the first two months but still give 110% in training. Lucas has been here a year now, who's to say he won't improve next season, put in a performance or two and then say "feck this I want to play every week"?

I like the little Brazillian a lot and disagree with Stu on him. He's got all the ability to become a top player. There is though the lingering doubt that he won't do it in the Premiership.

If we aren't going to sell Xabi, are we missing a trick by holding onto Lucas?

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:48 pm

OHH Mick comes in with a sneaky one there :nod

Thats certainly given me food for thought there Mick

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:55 pm

IF we sign Barry we may have someone that is comfortable going forward from CM apart from Gerrard and then selling Lucas would be a possibility. If we dont get Barry, Lucas is the only alternative to Gerrard who is comfortable in the oppositions half of the pitch and I wouldn't sell him. Personally I have thought since I first saw him that he is going to make it big. He shows touches and glimpses of class that with a little confidence and experience we will hopefully see more and more of. I am unsure if Babel will make it , I have no such doubts about Lucas.......if he can force his way into the team before he takes the "easy way out" of looking for another club.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:55 pm

Id rather keep Lucas and just not sign Barry. Rafa played Lucas on the left of midfield last season but the advantage we have is that Lucas is young and has a lot of talent which will improve with every season. If we sign Barry and flog Lucas then I dont think for a second I will be the only one disappointed.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:07 pm

Lucas has a stack of talent, and huge potential. That said, whether we sign Barry, keep Alonso or not he isn't in the short to medium term going to get a game I don't think. This is unless Rafa sees him as a direct replacement for Xabi in the 4-5-1, providing that link, the umbilical chord between Gerrard/Torres and the rest of the team. The little Brazillian could definately perform the role, but I remain convinced that so could Alonso (indeed we've seen him move forward with comfort when playing for Spain very recently). If the straight swap for Xabi thing is the plan (and I don't think it is TBPH) then Barry would play wide left and there you go.

No, my thoughts are that Lucas is staring down the gun-barrel at another season at least of bit parts. Now I know we paid eight mill for him, but he in all likelyhood signed a four or five year deal, and say he goes another season without breaking into the team on a regular basis. We might be in a siutuation where this time next season he's saying "either I play or I'm off". He may by then be better than Gerrard or/and Masherano, but then again he may not.

I'm not necessarily saying we should sell him and keep Alonso, merely that the idea does have some value both short and long term. If we need money, we may need as Rafa says to "use some imagination". Selling Lucas would be a gamble as he could turn out to be something really special, but then again he may not. Buying Gareth Barry and playing him on the left hand side of midfield would instantly, categorically and definately improve our team. Straight away.

That I think is why Rafa wants to buy him, and if we have to make a sale it might pay to take a punt on Lucas not training on.

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:10 pm

bigmick wrote:Was just thinking, with the Juventus interest seemingly cooling a little and the arrival of Barry surely iminent. If it's the case that we need a few quid, if it's the case that we would have too many central midfielders who aren't going to play? What if my "opening day of the season" team is correct?

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Kuyt Gerrard Masherano Barry

Keane

Torres

Who would people want off the bench, first change, first option if someone got injured? If a team came in and gave us back what we paid for Lucas plus a mill or two (which I believe is possible) then would it be an option, or even a possibility?

Alonso strikes me as the sort of lad who is a top pro and could accept not being picked for the first two months but still give 110% in training. Lucas has been here a year now, who's to say he won't improve next season, put in a performance or two and then say "feck this I want to play every week"?

I like the little Brazillian a lot and disagree with Stu on him. He's got all the ability to become a top player. There is though the lingering doubt that he won't do it in the Premiership.

If we aren't going to sell Xabi, are we missing a trick by holding onto Lucas?

Replace Kuyt with Alonso and put Gerrard on the right and get a decent right back. If that Dossena's upto much then we MIGHT finally be onto something.

Kuyt should never be in our team. End of.

by **banana** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:15 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
bigmick wrote:Was just thinking, with the Juventus interest seemingly cooling a little and the arrival of Barry surely iminent. If it's the case that we need a few quid, if it's the case that we would have too many central midfielders who aren't going to play? What if my "opening day of the season" team is correct?

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Kuyt Gerrard Masherano Barry

Keane

Torres

Who would people want off the bench, first change, first option if someone got injured? If a team came in and gave us back what we paid for Lucas plus a mill or two (which I believe is possible) then would it be an option, or even a possibility?

Alonso strikes me as the sort of lad who is a top pro and could accept not being picked for the first two months but still give 110% in training. Lucas has been here a year now, who's to say he won't improve next season, put in a performance or two and then say "feck this I want to play every week"?

I like the little Brazillian a lot and disagree with Stu on him. He's got all the ability to become a top player. There is though the lingering doubt that he won't do it in the Premiership.

If we aren't going to sell Xabi, are we missing a trick by holding onto Lucas?

Replace Kuyt with Alonso and put Gerrard on the right and get a decent right back. If that Dossena's upto much then we MIGHT finally be onto something.

Kuyt should never be in our team. End of.

Agreed Kuyt should not even be in the squad. He is probably the worst right wing ever to play in Champions League. A better right back and a better right midfield and we are there.

My biggest concern would be the lack of replacement for Torres. If he is injured or if he stop scoring we have absolutely no cover.

by **andy_g** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:18 pm

babel?

by **Rush Job** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:16 am

I understand the reasoning but it'll never happen, IMO Rafa paid 8 knowing in a couple of seasons he'd either be a great player for us or we sell on for at worst a small profit. He was starting to look right at home when he got that run at the end of the season playing behind Crouch and Voronin and i think in Rafas mind at least he has already been a success in what was his first year away from home and everything that entails for a young man, i dont think he'd consider selling unless an offer of 12/13+ was put in, i think the boss rates the lad very highly.

by **SundanceKid** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:05 am

bigmick wrote:Was just thinking, with the Juventus interest seemingly cooling a little and the arrival of Barry surely iminent. If it's the case that we need a few quid, if it's the case that we would have too many central midfielders who aren't going to play? What if my "opening day of the season" team is correct?

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Kuyt Gerrard Masherano Barry

Keane

Torres

Who would people want off the bench, first change, first option if someone got injured? If a team came in and gave us back what we paid for Lucas plus a mill or two (which I believe is possible) then would it be an option, or even a possibility?

Alonso strikes me as the sort of lad who is a top pro and could accept not being picked for the first two months but still give 110% in training. Lucas has been here a year now, who's to say he won't improve next season, put in a performance or two and then say "feck this I want to play every week"?

I like the little Brazillian a lot and disagree with Stu on him. He's got all the ability to become a top player. There is though the lingering doubt that he won't do it in the Premiership.

If we aren't going to sell Xabi, are we missing a trick by holding onto Lucas?

Not sure how accurate this will be, but seems like a winning formula.

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:08 am

bigmick wrote:Was just thinking, with the Juventus interest seemingly cooling a little and the arrival of Barry surely iminent. If it's the case that we need a few quid, if it's the case that we would have too many central midfielders who aren't going to play? What if my "opening day of the season" team is correct?

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Kuyt Gerrard Masherano Barry

Keane

Torres

Who would people want off the bench, first change, first option if someone got injured? If a team came in and gave us back what we paid for Lucas plus a mill or two (which I believe is possible) then would it be an option, or even a possibility?

Alonso strikes me as the sort of lad who is a top pro and could accept not being picked for the first two months but still give 110% in training. Lucas has been here a year now, who's to say he won't improve next season, put in a performance or two and then say "feck this I want to play every week"?

I like the little Brazillian a lot and disagree with Stu on him. He's got all the ability to become a top player. There is though the lingering doubt that he won't do it in the Premiership.

If we aren't going to sell Xabi, are we missing a trick by holding onto Lucas?

Mabye but i think he has got what it takes, he played well in games he was part of last season.

I like him tho i would only sell him for a nice price and if the money was gonna be spent on another top player of course.

But personaly i think rafa see's him as future replacement so i doubt it will happen but stanger things have happened.

by **Number 9** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:09 am

If Alonso does'nt go I think Rafa's plans will be up in the air.It seems we are relying on this deal to go through to put most of the money up for Barry!
I always liked Alonso and its obvious he wants to remain at Liverpool but even his biggest fans would admit he has not been anywhere near his best in the last while.
If Juve dont want him and the Barry deal does'nt happen it very well may be a blessing in disguise.Just maybe it could get Alonso back to his best next season if he feels he has a lot to prove to Rafa!

As for Lucas i'd sell him no bother!
I think i've seen one match were he caught my eye and looked good.I fail to see anyother reason s in an LFC shirt he deserves any of the praise some give him on here.
Maybe a lot of peoples judgement is clouded by the fact that he was young Brazilian player of the year(or something like that).
From what i've seen he's far from special!I'd deffo sell him if the situation mentioned arose!

by **bigmick** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:39 am

Number 9 wrote:I always liked Alonso and its obvious he wants to remain at Liverpool but even his biggest fans would admit he has not been anywhere near his best in the last while.

Hmm I wouldn't be sure about that if I were you Baz

by **radun5** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:03 am

Oh dear, I did not recognize Bigmick - new avatar and only a few paragraphs in the first post :laugh:

The avatar especially was a shock, for me there was an identity between the two.

About Lucas, I think if we keep Alonso and buy Barry he could be sold, the CM would be much too crowded (Masch - Alonso - Gerrard - Barry) and he is the one who would play the least. What about a loan to another Premiership club for one year though ? We would hang on to him and see how he copes with being in the first team every week.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:38 am

Danny Guthrie played better in the prem last season than Lucas. I think he would next season as well even if it was only in a few games. Surely that would make Lucas surplus to requirements and maybe some team on the East coast of Spain would want him

Throw in Aurelio Pennant and Voronin too plus whatever cash is left and maybe we can nick one of the Davids. ALthough I would be very cautious before I sold an U 20 captain of Brazil and player of the year in the Brazilian league. But at the same time I must admit that nothing blew me away about him. The best bit of skill that he showed all season came against a non-league team. Can't help but say that he went missing in games.

However, Lucas wasn't bought for his impact last season or even this season. He was bought to be a decade long quality player. And if he gets a bit of confidence and used to the prem he very well could become that. I think it might only be worth selling him if we really think that this is the year for the league title and that selling him will allow us to get the player (or keep the player) that will be more essential in helping us win the title. This happens all the time in baseball where a team in the hunt gives up two or three promising youngsters in exchange for a savvy veteran on a loosing team (typically with few years left on the contract (A luxury bad teams can afford without the threat of relegation)).

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If alonso does stay........ - What about flogging lucas?

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