Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:57 am

sorry

by **Number 9** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:23 am

peewee wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
peewee wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Benitez has his faults, but I have to say I dont think that transfers are one of them.

IF they are not good enough he ships them out, and he is the last LFC manager since fu.ck knows when to make a profit on players he buys.

prevention is better than cure, the fact he has to ship so many players out shows a lack of judgment when signing them, if he was better in the transfer market we wouldnt have dead wood to ship out

What dead wood would this be? It took Benitez at least two years to ship enough of Houllier's dregs out the door before he could even consider building a decent first team. His own first team. Given the fact that he's never been handed a decent enough lump sum over a summer to get in quick enough and get his first targets, it only adds to the problem if you are forced to shop is Tescos when other's around you are in shopping at Harrods.

Bar last summer, which was really the first time proper money was there, and look who we got. Rafa, given with what he's had to spend at any given transfer window, has bought well with what he's had. Not only this, but it's been mentioned already that whoever he buys then deems not good enough, he ships them out quickly and usually makes a profit on them. The club is a business, and by any standards, this is good business sense.

Every manager in the league with forced budgets, including Fergie and Wenger at one point, has made these so called poor judgments and done the same thing. If every signing we made were the perfect one, which is impossible, then we'd be unstoppable. Of course, in the real world, this is not how things work. You call it poor judgment; I call it trail and error.

gonzalez, bellamy, nunez, pellagrino, morientes, i could go on but you see my point

No one can argue that they were all bad signings Peewee but the good thing is that Rafa gets rid!If they are not good enough they are out.
He does'nt keep them in the squad costing LFC a fortune like other teams do.
All managers get it wrong at times,at least none of our failures cost mega bucks.Look at the shi'te Chelsea have bought recently.What did they pay for Shcevchenko and how much a week?
Yeah they can afford it but that is not the point!
Fergie has bought Kleberson,Djemba Djemba and Bellion!
Wenger has signed Cygan,Jeffers and Song.

So bad signings are not something only Rafa is guilty of..they all do it!
If you are gonna try and beat the manager down,using transfers does'nt do it lad!
Rotation is always a winner though!

by **Owzat** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:51 am

How can shipping bad signings out make up for signing them in the first place? It doesn't. You make a mistake in the transfer market, it is a mistake and the consequence is at the very least lost time in building the team/squad. And the cost of signing them can also be measured in lost ground/league positions/trophies.

You could argue keeping Riise cost us a good chance at the Champions League last season, or the very least Rafa's misguided faith in him. Had he stuck with the XI started against Arsenal 1st leg then he could have brought on Arbeloa, or had he brought on Hyypia he could have reshuffled the back four. Or put another way, Rafa's lack of transfer activity in replacing Riise with a decent LB cost us a bit last season and other seasons. Not to re-mention the defence system, bizarre selections and tactics plus an unimaginative come uninspirational use of subs.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:53 am

tried to post this earlier on youtube but that file transfer made a botchery of it, this isn't what I made on my computer, there are some weird transitions that go too fast on some and to slow on others but its still 85% accurate to what I made. If anyone has facebook or uses multiply I can send you the video I uploaded on there which is closer to 99% of what I have on my computer. Very frustrating evening. oh and I created a drop.io for newkit http://www.drio.io/newkit_ but the video there didn't work. Still a neat tool though.

Anyway link to my premier LFC slideshow

and I put it in this thread for a reason BTW.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:25 am

what happened to monty?

by **ConnO'var** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:42 am

by **woof woof !** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:18 am

ConnO'var wrote:
peewee wrote:what happened to monty?

Another On Bites The Dust - Queen

The thread is ostensibly about Benitez, lets at least try and keep it that way.

by **ConnO'var** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:31 am

Sorry.... just taking the mick.... edited above.

Back to topic..... Like the original poster, I too am bored of Benitez...

by **Penguins** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:43 am

MontyPanesarFC wrote:Anybody who knows me knows that I think the "money" arguement is . Plain and simple. Doesn't wash with me and never will uness somebody can answer these questions (sensibly) and convince me otherwise

1) WHEN we win the league this year can we assume that it's a fluke because we couldn't possibly win it outright by spending less could we?
2) WHEN we win the league this year what's the excuse for the previous four where we haven't came close?
3) If we haven't had money why has our record transfers on a keeper, defender, midfielder and forward all come under Benitez?
4) How come Spurs and Newcastle spend more but we finish above them and Arsenal spend less yet we finished behind them last year?
5) Why didn't we need to spend 10 million plus on Agger/Skrtel who I think are both top class centre halves?

Anybody who can answer them (sensibly) deserves a gold star.

1. First of all that is one HUGE IF.
We haven't been really close in a very long time.
And if it did happen it is because Rafa did a Instanbul and
made the team perform at almost more than maximum.
Fluke? No. Almost a miracle? Yes.
Since it never happened or has been close to happening, the money issue stand anyway!

2. Why? Cause this year would then be the fantastic one
and abnormal compared to previous years.
You write this like the club has been underperforming the previous years and a league title is what should have happened. No basis at all for that foundation.
Once again ifs and buts.

3. Why?

Cause our record fees before Rafa arrived was pathetic compared to the teams we are trying to catch.

So we spend 6.5 million on a defender. WOW
Manure and Chelski the teams with 4 titles between them the past 4 years have these record fees.

Rio fredinand 20 million
Carvalho 20 million

Some record fee we spent...

Don't know what we paid for masch but look at Chelski and manure once again for midfielders.

hargreaves, Carrick, Anderson and so on and so on.
Around 18 million each!!!!

And I don't even want to start with Chelski.

Rafa has spent 10 million+ on 4 players since he came. 4!!!
Please check manure and Chelski and their teams.

We are so far behind with money it's not even worth comparing.

4. Why?

Cause Spurs and newcastle make stupid gaffes buying players they don't need or that don't fit in. Combined with the fact that Rafa is performing rather well with what he has got for the most part.
Are we talking about the Arsenal team that last won a title 2004? Besides Wenger is a manger like no other who since his arrival more than 10 seasons ago has been given the time to
build up a powerful youth setup.

5. Agger and Skrtel are very promising but they are both young and still haven't shown me that they are top/world class centre halves. Besides the fact that each team seem to overrate their players it is still possible to get lucky and find a gem once every 2 years.
But they are exceptions to the rule and in the long run there is no way you will find that guarateed quality in 6 million players. Unless you have the money players with less quality than what is needed will be bought.

A Pennant instead of Alves, a Gonzalez instead of Simao, a Crouch instead of Eto'o etc.

There you have your answers! Money wins league titles and only fantastic efforts above normal and miracles on a few occasions can change it.

But please don't make that stop you from blaming Rafa if he only makes us 4th with no new arrivals. After all the backing to get Degan, Voronin is there for everyone to see.

by **PabloAimar** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:50 pm

the thread starter needs her clit stapling to her forehead.

by **RedBlood** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:54 pm

In Rafa I Trust

by **PabloAimar** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:15 pm

u may be bored with the rafa, but look on the bright side...

Bernard Diomede

In June 2000, Diomède was signed for £3m by then Liverpool F.C. manager Gerard Houllier. Making his debut against Sunderland, Diomède appeared to have scored with an overhead kick, but the goal was not given even though replays showed that the ball had crossed the line. However, he did not settle in England, and only played five games for Liverpool. In January 2003 he was loaned out to AC Ajaccio, newly-promoted in France's Ligue 1, until the end of his contract.

...goooooooood business - i bet coco was behind it

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:19 pm

PabloAimar wrote:the thread starter needs her clit stapling to her forehead.

I can think of better things to do with her clit.

by **Owzat** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:45 am

I was thinking about our record last season, not overall but against Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal. We played them ELEVEN times last season and won only once.

2007/8

Man Utd P2 W0 D0 L2 F0 A4
Chelsea P5 W0 D3 L2 F4 A7
Arsenal P4 W1 D3 L0 F7 A5

vs Top Three : P11 W1 D6 L4 F11 A16 (Won 9.09%)
vs Other Teams : P48 W32 D11 L5 F108 A34 (Won 66.67%)

As many defeats as wins at home (P5 W1 D3 L1) and three draws and three defeats away. I guess you could take positives from the away draws in the league as firsts for Rafa, but our season by season head to head league record against them is still not good enough

2004/5 : P6 W1 D0 L5 F4 A9 PTS 3
2005/6 : P6 W1 D1 L4 F3 A9 PTS 4
2006/7 : P6 W2 D0 L4 F6 A8 PTS 6
2007/8 : P6 W0 D4 L2 F3 A8 PTS 4

Mini-Table (2004/5-2007/8)

1. Chelsea : P24 W12 D8 L4 F29 A16 PTS 44
2. Man Utd : P24 W13 D5 L6 F30 A19 PTS 44
3. Arsenal : P24 W6 D8 L10 F26 A33 PTS 26
4. Liverpool : P24 W4 D5 L15 F16 A33 PTS 17

Not even besting Arsenal, scored 10 less than any other of the 'big four' and conceded joint most. We concede seven points a season on the mancs and Chelsea under Rafa in those head to heads alone - only in 2005/6 did we score more points than the rest of the 'big four' against the rest of the Premiership so it isn't like we make up ground there.

Winning the head to head mini-table doesn't guarantee winning the league but six of the last eight Premiership titles have been won by the team doing so and four out of eight by the team with the most points against the rest of the Premiership sides - Chelsea managed both in record breaking 2004/5 as did Arsenal in their unbeaten season of 2003/4.

The two seasons in the last eight the team without the best head to head won the league :-

2000/1 : Liverpool picked up the most points head to head (10/18), but Man Utd picked up 11 more points against other sides and won the league by 10 points

2006/7 : Arsenal won the mini-table with 11 points, but Man Utd picked up a staggering 24 more points than Arsenal against the rest and won the league by six points from Chelsea. Arsenal finished fourth

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:05 am

Sometimes your criticised Owzat, for posting up stats which are, well, frankly b0ll0cks. But on this occasion the stats are thought provoking and very interesting (largely of course because they add substance to a couple of my own theories

).

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