Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:30 am

But you also mentioned us winning the champs league. When it comes to european competition rafa has it spot on but when the league argument is raised, he doesnt have the funding to compete?

And that is a very valid point Kharhaz.

People like to use these excuses when it suits them.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:27 am

^ Not interested today thankyou ^

Do you want to buy a taxi, or are you happy enough to runescape from this forum ?

by **Owzat** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:50 am

Times have changed, Rafa has probably taken Liverpool to the highest level since we last won the league, but still some way off winning the league. Whether he can take the team those few steps further I seriously doubt, with zonal marking and midprice purchases holding the team back. Rafa is slowly constructing a team, 12 players already in and out under him and still barely a dozen players worthy of wearing the shirt.

All those using the mancs as a benchmark should probably look as much at Wenger who has been a shining example of how money isn't necessarily the key to success. It is hard to break into the dominance of money, the two biggest spenders have won bought the last four Premiership titles between them, but it isn't impossible. Liverpool lost points against the likes of Brum and Reading last season (7/18) and drew too many games overall. Rafa has yet to beat the mancs in the league in EIGHT attempts, maybe keeping pace with them is hard but beating them in a one-off should be manageable by the tactical genius that won us the Champions League surely?

This is the crunch season, so far we've signed Dossena and Degen with a long, drawn out saga chasing Barny. Has Rafa done enough to convince me this is the season? No. We'll make the same mistakes again and the moves in the transfer market are no more inspirational than usual. The other nagging doubt is even with a flying start there is the anticipation it won't be sustained as both Rafa and Houllier have got off to good starts and quickly turned them into poor finishes.

Flying Starts

2002/3 : P12 W9 D3 L0 PTS 30. Final position = 5th (19 pts behind the Champions)
2007/8 : P14 W8 D6 L0 PTS 30. Final position = 4th (11 pts behind the Champions)

For all the talk of Rafa being the one, he's never finished higher than third, not beaten the mancs in the league, and has a pretty ordinary record against bottom three and top ten sides. I think I said last season that if we didn't show a positive sign like beating the mancs then Rafa would struggle to win the league, you can't keep giving them six points and expecting to finish above them

Rafa vs relegated sides : P24 W15 D6 L3 PTS 51 (Won 62.5%)
Rafa vs rest of top ten : P72 W30 D18 L24 PTS 108 (Won 41.67%)

The record against relegated sides should be 100% or at least a lot closer to 100%. Flicking down last season's Premiership sides and Rafa's results against them, the only sides he hasn't lost to are villa, spudz, Wigan, Sunderland and Derby ie 1/4 of the Premiership.

Point being we lose games that we shouldn't, were the excuse of money doesn't wash. We're not playing Chelsea and Man Utd every game, in fact Liverpool play those two only four times a season and the rest, who spend less, 34 times a season. So 102 points a season are up for grabs against teams that spent less, somehow they or maybe Rafa manage to level the playing field. Maybe someone should jot down the teams for each Liverpool game next season and compare the starting prices (as it were)

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:02 am

Owzat wrote:Point being we lose games that we shouldn't, were the excuse of money doesn't wash. We're not playing Chelsea and Man Utd every game, in fact Liverpool play those two only four times a season and the rest, who spend less, 34 times a season. So 102 points a season are up for grabs against teams that spent less, somehow they or maybe Rafa manage to level the playing field.

excellent point mate, and you are also touching on my point, we keep weakening our team when we play smaller clubs, this always puzzles me, its as though we say "ok, you are not as good as us so we will give you a chance by fielding a weakened team"

by **LegBarnes** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:05 am

peewee wrote:
Owzat wrote:Point being we lose games that we shouldn't, were the excuse of money doesn't wash. We're not playing Chelsea and Man Utd every game, in fact Liverpool play those two only four times a season and the rest, who spend less, 34 times a season. So 102 points a season are up for grabs against teams that spent less, somehow they or maybe Rafa manage to level the playing field.

excellent point mate, and you are also touching on my point, we keep weakening our team when we play smaller clubs, this always puzzles me, its as though we say "ok, you are not as good as us so we will give you a chance by fielding a weakened team"

I do agree with you peewee with some points but i really dont feel this is a game of i told you do bla bla bla i feel rafa is the man this season if he fooks up he is gone or should go.

Yes he still looks weak in transfer market for me this barry thing is stupid and he should walk away he is making it look like we are mugs and will pay any thing for a player.Many other top players we could get for far less.

For me rafa's main weakness and biggest strenght at same time is his single mindedness and stuboness.

He needs to fix this and i think you are right he may never and we will be yet 15-20 points of prem agian.

If so he will go but i feel there will be alot fo problems with players if he does and this season this is the last thing liverpool needs.

About the the owners i aint blaming them tho i feel i have right to if i like since they havent done any thing to help club since buying it. I think there is alot more PR they could be doing between them selfs and fans to let us know about transfers and plans afoot but they do nothing in that respect.

This would take pressure of rafa and would help the team also i dont get impression that rafa talks to players much about who is comming in and who is going out.

I just hope we can leave barry make some fuss about another player and then MON will will get a useless player he cant use and sell him to us before start of season.

by **Judge** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:15 am

spion wrote:Now I know I'm going to be in trouble on here for airing my views on this "forum". Daring to criticise the wonderful Benitez. But this manager, the man who spouted on about “Historic Liverpool” & doing it the “Liverpool way” has in some part contributed to the dilution of our beloved club. Constant tapping up of players that we either cannot afford or don’t really need is making us a laughing stock of the premier league. Am I really the only one bored with the wheeling & dealing of this manager? You know we can be unhappy with fourth, we can demand more from the manager who won the champions league. I’m fed up with the total belief we have to have in our managers & the fact that Liverpool don’t sack underperforming staff. I mean when Houllier left we gave him a bloody press conference so everyone knew how fantastic the scousers are. This summer is no different really to the one where Houllier bought the diamonds in the rough Diouf, Diao & Cherou. Oh remember those halcyon days? Torres & Mascherano have been wonderful wonderful players who make you believe anythings possible but this summer the players we are being linked with are at best adequate premier players who are happy to plod on in adequate teams, oh but saying that we seem to be happy to be one of those adequate teams so maybe the manager has it right. I don’t apologise for my opinions like so many who come on here demand. The fact is football is a game of opinions & this is supposed to be a “forum” not a bum kissing contest. Liverpool are still one of the biggest club teams on the planet but that is very quickly disappearing because the fans are happy with there lot. A club in constant flux can be seen in many ways, unstable like Leeds or progressive like Arsenal or Manure. Although we all loved Benitez talking about the past maybe we ignored the fact that if you keep looking back you really cant move forward.

do you know bigmick

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:45 am

Benitez has his faults, but I have to say I dont think that transfers are one of them.

IF they are not good enough he ships them out, and he is the last LFC manager since fu.ck knows when to make a profit on players he buys.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:29 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:Benitez has his faults, but I have to say I dont think that transfers are one of them.

IF they are not good enough he ships them out, and he is the last LFC manager since fu.ck knows when to make a profit on players he buys.

prevention is better than cure, the fact he has to ship so many players out shows a lack of judgment when signing them, if he was better in the transfer market we wouldnt have dead wood to ship out

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:37 am

peewee wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Benitez has his faults, but I have to say I dont think that transfers are one of them.

IF they are not good enough he ships them out, and he is the last LFC manager since fu.ck knows when to make a profit on players he buys.

prevention is better than cure, the fact he has to ship so many players out shows a lack of judgment when signing them, if he was better in the transfer market we wouldnt have dead wood to ship out

Open your eyes.

No manager has ever been able to sign players that work all the time.

Rather than banging the anti Benitez drum all the time, if you can be objective then your view will have more credibility.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:05 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
peewee wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Benitez has his faults, but I have to say I dont think that transfers are one of them.

IF they are not good enough he ships them out, and he is the last LFC manager since fu.ck knows when to make a profit on players he buys.

prevention is better than cure, the fact he has to ship so many players out shows a lack of judgment when signing them, if he was better in the transfer market we wouldnt have dead wood to ship out

Open your eyes.

No manager has ever been able to sign players that work all the time.

Rather than banging the anti Benitez drum all the time, if you can be objective then your view will have more credibility.

practice what you preach then leon

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:38 pm

To be honest I'd just be glad if we were still in the shake up come March/April, but in terms of winning the league, it's never been harder, it's not just one team we're trying to overtake it's 3, all of who can claim to be in the best 5-6 in Europe. That's never really been the case before.

by **Judge** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:49 pm

carragher was quoted over the weekend that he wants the league over anything, rather than cup runs

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:34 pm

I can't wait for the start of the season. I love looking forward to a new season - esp. now we have Torres, but at the same time there's always that feeling of 'we've been here so many times before' - we've read the interviews of players saying they think we can challenge, they think we need to challenge etc., etc., then it never happens. This isn't an indictment of Rafa as it's been like this for a number of years.

It's so important we get the right players in for the start of the season, we can't afford to compromise on quality for any reason. We need the quality to support a challenge, to flesh out a strong spine.

by **Number 9** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:19 pm

Where the fu'ck is Spion anyway?

He starts a one man verbal assault on our manager and accuses LFC of tapping up players then dissappears?

Ah found him,head up ars'e! :blues:

by **metalhead** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:58 pm

Number 9 wrote:Where the fu'ck is Spion anyway?
He starts a one man verbal assault on our manager and accuses LFC of tapping up players then dissappears?

Ah found him,head up ars'e!

Yeh Im getting bored of Benitez myself, should shave his gotee FFS! :angry:

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