Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:45 am

That was quite interesting to read although I didnt agree with some of it mr andy. Then you reared the verbal.

If your that concerned about humanitarian consideration and being White I'm assuming, and you feel this thread completely ignores this issues. Which it does because its about something totally different, f.uck off and join the red cross or something.

by **Judge** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:10 am

just say what you all have to say without the profanity gents

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:40 am

Judge wrote:just say what you all have to say without the profanity gents

f*ck off alan

:laugh:

on another point I will be in the UK from 9th to 23rd of this month for my ma's 70th birthday :cool:

by **woof woof !** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:53 am

andy_g wrote:straight away it comes down to blaming the immigrants and labelling them all as freeloaders that come to this country to steal our benefits and our jobs.

I don't think anyone in this thread has accused immigrants of "stealing" our benefits or our jobs, they don't have to as the government are quite happy to give them away. Furthermore nobody is having a go at immigrants for taking advantage of our governments generosity . Many underprivileged British people are however becoming increasingly fed up with a situation where health services are running down, schools are bursting at the seams and the availability of council housing is virtually none existent.

I realise these problems cannot be blamed solely on the numbers of immigrants and refugees that have flooded into the uk during the last decade however I think there is a valid argument that their presence has certainly exacerbated the problems.

Certainly many immigrants/refugees have made a substantial contribution to this country but an equal number have contributed sweet fk all. Perhaps you've been away from the uk to long to appreciate the extent of the negative impact these non contributors have had on our social services and consequently the millions of British citizens who are far from being the "privileged white males" you paint.

And before anyone leaps in with the "we have loads of wasters of our own" mantra. Yes we certainly do , but if we are going to act charitable lets recall another mantra.

Charity begins at Home.

by **andy_g** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:03 am

woof woof ! wrote:
andy_g wrote:straight away it comes down to blaming the immigrants and labelling them all as freeloaders that come to this country to steal our benefits and our jobs.

I don't think anyone in this thread has accused immigrants of "stealing" our benefits or our jobs, they don't have to as the government are quite happy to give them away. Furthermore nobody is having a go at immigrants for taking advantage of our governments generosity . Many underprivileged British people are however becoming increasingly fed up with a situation where health services are running down, schools are bursting at the seams and the availability of council housing is virtually none existent.

I realise these problems cannot be blamed solely on the numbers of immigrants and refugees that have flooded into the uk during the last decade however I think there is a valid argument that their presence has certainly exacerbated the problems.

Certainly many immigrants/refugees have made a substantial contribution to this country but an equal number have contributed sweet fk all. Perhaps you've been away from the uk to long to appreciate the extent of the negative impact these non contributors have had on our social services and consequently the millions of British citizens who are far from being the "privileged white males" you paint.

And before anyone leaps in with the "we have loads of wasters of our own" mantra. Yes we certainly do , but if we are going to act charitable lets recall another mantra.

Charity begins at Home.

i pretty much agree with your points here.

the people that i'm reacting to are the ones that come straight out with bo.llocks about shipping the immigrants back, stopping any more coming in, or cutting of aid to those more needy than us. this isn't the same as saying all immigrants are wonderful, that everyone in the UK is just fine, or that i am a yoghurt weaving do gooder.

when you don't have all the facts (and i'm not pretending for a moment that i do) its much easier to blame the immigrants than to look at the way this government rolls over and gets shafted rather than develop working policies and look after its own people aswell.

and i still maintain that, despite the growing reluctance of the government to protect the freedoms and lifestyles of native UK residents of whatever race, the vast majority of european residences have it really easy - especially the white male. i often consider myself lucky that i belong to such a select clan.

by **Judge** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:08 am

our services in the NHS are suffering due to overload in demand from non-brits

by **Number 9** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:13 am

woof woof ! wrote:
andy_g wrote:straight away it comes down to blaming the immigrants and labelling them all as freeloaders that come to this country to steal our benefits and our jobs.

I don't think anyone in this thread has accused immigrants of "stealing" our benefits or our jobs, they don't have to as the government are quite happy to give them away. Furthermore nobody is having a go at immigrants for taking advantage of our governments generosity . Many underprivileged British people are however becoming increasingly fed up with a situation where health services are running down, schools are bursting at the seams and the availability of council housing is virtually none existent.

I realise these problems cannot be blamed solely on the numbers of immigrants and refugees that have flooded into the uk during the last decade however I think there is a valid argument that their presence has certainly exacerbated the problems.

Certainly many immigrants/refugees have made a substantial contribution to this country but an equal number have contributed sweet fk all. Perhaps you've been away from the uk to long to appreciate the extent of the negative impact these non contributors have had on our social services and consequently the millions of British citizens who are far from being the "privileged white males" you paint.

And before anyone leaps in with the "we have loads of wasters of our own" mantra. Yes we certainly do , but if we are going to act charitable lets recall another mantra.

Charity begins at Home.

Exactly right! :nod

Its all to easy for people to twist words and play the facist or racist card its pathetic!
No one on here is saying that all immigrants are useless dole spongers.Far from it in fact.
Go into any hospital and you will see there are a high percentage of foreign nurses and very skilled surgeons that are here to make an honest living and contribute more than a lot of natives to our society!Then of course there are lots of immigrants on minimum wage jobs as well,fair play to them.If they are happy to come here and work and abide by our laws,there is no reason for anyone to have a problem.In fact they are an important part of society in my opinion!

BUT...its the ones that come with 3 kids and get a free house free handouts and contribute nothing that are the leeches.We have every right to complain about them its OUR money that is keeping them.Our sick and old that are going without to put food in their bellies.Every winter there are 1000s of old people that die because they cant afford heating who have worked all their lives!
Meanwhile import families are living in a cosy house with everything they need and have never put a penny into the treasury.
I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would say this is right?Id love to here someone try!

By all means people should be allowed and welcomed to Britain IF they are going to work!The government should bring in a new law that if they are here more than 4 months and have still not got a job they get instantly deported and banned from here for good!
Theres no way we should be supporting people like this when some of our own are living in poverty.

Then we get the pathetic arguement,some of our own are just a bad and have no interest in working!
Thats very true but its a fact that there will be a percentage like this in every society in the world and always will be!

by **Judge** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:14 am

Number 9 wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
andy_g wrote:straight away it comes down to blaming the immigrants and labelling them all as freeloaders that come to this country to steal our benefits and our jobs.

I don't think anyone in this thread has accused immigrants of "stealing" our benefits or our jobs, they don't have to as the government are quite happy to give them away. Furthermore nobody is having a go at immigrants for taking advantage of our governments generosity . Many underprivileged British people are however becoming increasingly fed up with a situation where health services are running down, schools are bursting at the seams and the availability of council housing is virtually none existent.

I realise these problems cannot be blamed solely on the numbers of immigrants and refugees that have flooded into the uk during the last decade however I think there is a valid argument that their presence has certainly exacerbated the problems.

Certainly many immigrants/refugees have made a substantial contribution to this country but an equal number have contributed sweet fk all. Perhaps you've been away from the uk to long to appreciate the extent of the negative impact these non contributors have had on our social services and consequently the millions of British citizens who are far from being the "privileged white males" you paint.

And before anyone leaps in with the "we have loads of wasters of our own" mantra. Yes we certainly do , but if we are going to act charitable lets recall another mantra.

Charity begins at Home.

Exactly right!

Its all to easy for people to twist words cause im daft

who does that?

by **Number 9** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:17 am

Judge wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
andy_g wrote:straight away it comes down to blaming the immigrants and labelling them all as freeloaders that come to this country to steal our benefits and our jobs.

I don't think anyone in this thread has accused immigrants of "stealing" our benefits or our jobs, they don't have to as the government are quite happy to give them away. Furthermore nobody is having a go at immigrants for taking advantage of our governments generosity . Many underprivileged British people are however becoming increasingly fed up with a situation where health services are running down, schools are bursting at the seams and the availability of council housing is virtually none existent.

I realise these problems cannot be blamed solely on the numbers of immigrants and refugees that have flooded into the uk during the last decade however I think there is a valid argument that their presence has certainly exacerbated the problems.

Certainly many immigrants/refugees have made a substantial contribution to this country but an equal number have contributed sweet fk all. Perhaps you've been away from the uk to long to appreciate the extent of the negative impact these non contributors have had on our social services and consequently the millions of British citizens who are far from being the "privileged white males" you paint.

And before anyone leaps in with the "we have loads of wasters of our own" mantra. Yes we certainly do , but if we are going to act charitable lets recall another mantra.

Charity begins at Home.

Exactly right!

Its all to easy for people to twist words cause im daft

who does that?

Morning Anal, i mean Alan!!

by **NANNY RED** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:20 am

Agreed totaly Barry my husband is not English but he has been here for 35 years never claimed a penny. He himself is of the same views as you .He said ages ago to me if any one wants to come to this counrty to live they should pay at least 10 years tax and national insurance before they are allowed to claim any benefits or given any help finacialy what so ever . Give something to the country before taking.

by **Sabre** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:28 am

Spain for the Spaniards!!!

THose bloody English that come with exotic names like Andy, Pandy and Randy. They take our women, and our jobs, they use our roads and railroads, they lay in our beaches and drink in our pubs when they retire. What a shame.

(kidding, just in case, although in Andy's case it's true he takes our women)

Of course, I'm happy that we have controlled (at some extent) inmigration. If our population gets older, and our birth rate is low, that means we wouldn't have enough tax payers to keep up our social security system. So when Andy G works here, besides taking our women and drinking our water, his taxes as a worker help to keep up the health system and the Social Security, the best thing about living in my country these days. Let alone the cultural benefits he brings, I'm talking about money: We need inmigrants to keep our system up. If they're qualified workers like Andy, even the better.

Yes, when you have inmigrants you also have some new problems, as when you deal with ANY group of people. That's where politicians have to assign enough resources to the police or whatever measure is needed. You must also control the excess of inmigration, the mafias, etc. But the Governments should explain better the benefits of inmigration. And the problems that any society has, must be charged to the politicians, the one who are paid to solve these problems. Not the inmigrants.

Spain have been emigrant many years in their long history, and I hope when it comes the time to help others a little bit we're not too selfish -- especially when the big picture is good.

Anyway I'm not too optimistic about our selfishness. "I'm not xenophobic" say many Spaniards, but the truth is that they're not xenophobic because they hadn't anything but Spaniards surrounding them until now. As always, England is 10-15 years ahead of Spain in everything (except football) and your problems will be our problems. But we're already noticing the effects of inmigration, and I'm surprised to see that the reasonings that are done against and in favour of inmigration are very similar in two very different countries.

by **Judge** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:52 am

@ barry

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:01 pm

NANNY RED wrote:they should pay at least 10 years tax and national insurance before they are allowed to claim any benefits or given any help finacialy what so ever .

Is that not the way of it in the UK? We've got a ten year rule in Canada. When you sponsor a new immigrant to the country--like I did with my American wife--you sign a contract that says that she will not apply for any benefits for a decade and if she does, the government can come after me for the money...even if we'd separated or divorced. On the other side of the equation, she wasn't permitted to work until her permanent residency status was approved (6 months) but ever since she's paid taxes like everyone else. It seems to work, this system, as I've heard of very few immigrants going on the dole, given what a hardship it will be to their sponsoring families.

by **woof woof !** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:31 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:they should pay at least 10 years tax and national insurance before they are allowed to claim any benefits or given any help finacialy what so ever .

Is that not the way of it in the UK? We've got a ten year rule in Canada. When you sponsor a new immigrant to the country--like I did with my American wife--you sign a contract that says that she will not apply for any benefits for a decade and if she does, the government can come after me for the money...even if we'd separated or divorced. On the other side of the equation, she wasn't permitted to work until her permanent residency status was approved (6 months) but ever since she's paid taxes like everyone else. It seems to work, this system, as I've heard of very few immigrants going on the dole, given what a hardship it will be to their sponsoring families.

No Bob, tbh not sure what the deal for "sponsored" immigration is here but the bone of contention in the uk revolves around the so called asylum seekers who arrive here from all corners of the globe.

Now whilst you can understand a citizen of for example Zimbabwe (an ex British colony) making their way to the UK to seek asylum, how do you justify traveling from the Ivory Coast (ex french colony) or Columbia (no affiliation with the UK and surely Mexico is closer ?) to seek asylum in the UK. The truth as many suspect is that the majority ( but not all) of "asylum seekers " are in fact "economic refugees" and whilst the initial assistance given by the uk government would be considered the bare minimum by most "privileged white men" it is in fact better than they would receive in virtually all other countries and in many instances offers them a significant improvement in prospects.

From Gov't sources.
Asylum seekers may enter the UK with false or no documentation as long as they declare their documents to be false and apply for asylum immediately and cooperate with efforts to replace their documentation.

Asylum seekers have the same right to legal help as UK citizens and are subject to the same restrictions.

All refugee and asylum-seeking children can use pre-school facilities and normal rules for admission apply.

Asylum-seeking children up to the age of 16 have the same right to school education as British children, including free school meals.

Asylum seekers are entitled to support from the National Asylum Support Service (NASS), including housing and a weekly allowance, if: they are considered destitute, they have no family or friends with whom they can stay, they have no family friends who can support them.

Unaccompanied asylum seeking children under 18 are supported by social services under the Children Act 1989.

Once they turn 18 they can apply for NASS support.

Asylum seekers can access primary NHS healthcare for free including all NHS accident and emergency, maternity and in-patient/out-patient services.

Asylum seekers do not have to show official documentation when registering with a general practice. GPs have no right to demand to see an asylum seekers’ passport or papers.

NASS are able to help with some health costs such as prescriptions, dental treatment and sight tests, and cover travel costs to and from the hospital.

Asylum seekers with special needs are entitled to a needs assessment by the local authority and might be entitled to community care support, for which the local authority is responsible.

Now whilst most right minded people would consider this legislation right and proper when applied to genuine asylum seekers the fact that 70% of all claims are eventually deemed bogus does nothing for the UK publics perception of or welcome given to the seemingly never ending tide of the great unwashed crashing on our shores.

by **andy_g** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:43 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Now whilst most right minded people would consider this legislation right and proper when applied to genuine asylum seekers the fact that 70% of all claims are eventually deemed bogus does nothing for the UK publics perception of or welcome given to the seemingly never ending tide of the great unwashed crashing on our shores.

so now we're having a dig at aquatic hippies as well? heaven help us!

:no

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