Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:25 pm

Why is Finnan suddenly not good enough?

Last summer he was being praised as our most consistent player after Carragher. He had several niggling injuries this season and didn't play as much, now all of a sudden his age is an issue and he's not good enough at getting forward.

In fact he's the most effective full back we have in the final third. His crosses right and left footed are very good. Defensively he's sound. His only problem as I see it is lack of pace/mobility meaning he can't get into the final third enough. But he lacked pace and athleticism when he was getting praised as our second most consistent player last summer, so imo that hasn't changed. For some reason peoples' opinions of him have.

by **Toffeehater** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:28 pm

i want to have a look at this degen lad , maybe we've found a santa cruz bargain here

, give the lad a couple of games in the side

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:35 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Despite the obvious issues with defenders individually missing and out of form at times, the defence was not our problem last year, it was more to do with not putting it away up the other end.

So you think Rafa was wrong then Leon !!!

RAFA: AGGER LOSS COST US TITLE SHOT
Jimmy Rice 03 July 2008
The loss of Daniel Agger cost Liverpool a shot at the Premier League title last season, according to Rafa Benitez.
The manager's words came as his Danish defender returned to pre-season training at Melwood having missed most of 2007-08 with a metatarsal break.

Benitez said: "I think it cost us early in the season. We conceded goals at the end of games which finished as draws because Sami Hyypia and Jamie Carragher were playing too many games in a row.

"We were using Jack Hobbs in some games and Alvaro Arbeloa as a centre-back; clearly we missed Daniel Agger.

"He is a centre-back but good on the ball and a threat for the other team too. We missed Agger."

Benitez tried to sign Gabriel Heinze from Manchester United last summer as cover but the move proved impossible.

Instead Liverpool had to wait until January for top-class reinforcements by the name of Martin Skrtel

The Slovak made an impressive start to his Anfield career and will ensure that competition is fierce for central defensive places this season.

Benitez added: "We knew this player when he was 18. It was funny because some people were going to see Everton against Zenit and were saying this player really has ability. But we already had four or five videos of him which we liked. We had already sent our people over there and we knew he was the player for us.

"It can be difficult to settle down in this country but Martin has been really good.

"We know the players we want whenever the window opens and we try to sign the players at the right price."

I agree that his absence did mean our defence leaked more goals, but 1 goal against Wigan at anfield, none against Birmingham, Portsmouth, Blackburn and Man City tell me a lack of goals where more of a problem. These games, one goal in each, would have netted us 10 points. Right in the mixer.

Or conversely all the games where we took the lead only to let it slip away. Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Wigan, Villa one goal LESS conceeded and we would have had another 10 points, (I am claiming Wigan as we were in front, so that knocks your arguement down to only 8 points

The other thing to note is they were all home games too.

Then throw in Arsenal away, another game were we let our hard won lead slip and I am up to 12 points, and we would have also reached the CL final as well!

Easy this management lark isnt it.

Saint & Leonmc - joint managers ?

I may let you be my assistant

It just shows that in reality we arn't THAT far away, a bit stronger in defence (Agger) and a bit more up front and we would have been there or there abouts.

by **PabloAimar** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:58 pm

Pep Reina

Alvy Arbeloa Jimmy Carragher Dani Agger Andrea Dossenna

Jav Masch

Stef Gez Gareth Parry

??? Brian Babel
Nandy Toz

..........WAT A TEAM I CANT WAIT for the PRE-SEASON friendly against them welsh minnows TNA iMPACT!!

by **usually_babel** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:05 pm

all well and good if we do eventually sign barry..

well we could always stick pellegrino on the right wing if we get desperate..

really desperate....

by **Sabre** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:42 pm

john craig wrote:Why is Finnan suddenly not good enough?

Last summer he was being praised as our most consistent player after Carragher. He had several niggling injuries this season and didn't play as much, now all of a sudden his age is an issue and he's not good enough at getting forward.

In fact he's the most effective full back we have in the final third. His crosses right and left footed are very good. Defensively he's sound. His only problem as I see it is lack of pace/mobility meaning he can't get into the final third enough. But he lacked pace and athleticism when he was getting praised as our second most consistent player last summer, so imo that hasn't changed. For some reason peoples' opinions of him have.

Good shout here.

To be perfectly honest, no excuses, I simply forgot about Finnan when making my post about the RB. :blush:

Basically I agree what you say about his game. I know fúck all about Degan, but I consider Arbeloa of the same league of Finnan, good players.

My opinion on Finnan hasn't changed much this 3 years, but what we need to improve the squad has. Right now, I feel we have a top goalie, a top striker, a top midfield even without Alonso, very good CB, and there are other positions in which we must make the jump from good, to top players if we want to improve further.

Arbeloa doesn't give us that step forward over Finnan, has a different way to play the position, more continental, but he's not a step beyond in quality. We'll see if Degan brings that. Arbeloa's signing up made a lot of sense in a squad that needed to fill gaps, but in an already deep squad, we don't need more options, we need players that improve specific positions.

So I don't think Finnan is a bad player at all, but I think his position is one of the positions in which we don't have top players, unlike others.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:15 pm

john craig wrote:Why is Finnan suddenly not good enough?

Last summer he was being praised as our most consistent player after Carragher. He had several niggling injuries this season and didn't play as much, now all of a sudden his age is an issue and he's not good enough at getting forward.

In fact he's the most effective full back we have in the final third. His crosses right and left footed are very good. Defensively he's sound. His only problem as I see it is lack of pace/mobility meaning he can't get into the final third enough. But he lacked pace and athleticism when he was getting praised as our second most consistent player last summer, so imo that hasn't changed. For some reason peoples' opinions of him have.

Indirectly asking me that question ?

Why is everyone banging the drum we need new fullbacks, and attacking ones at that. Finnan isnt getting any younger is he. Carra's position has has Agger and Skertel for the possible future, Finnans will also need addressing soon enough simple as .

by **PabloAimar** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:34 pm

i have a feeling degen is gna be poo.

dossenna couldn't get into italy squad... fair enough the world champions have other decent left backs.

but degen couldn't even get into the SWISS team... or even appear as a sub! - they're hardly a squad already filled with world class defenders and if this guy didnt even get a look in one of the (if not THE) poorest team in the competition i fear the worst!

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:46 pm

I really don’t see our fullbacks as a major problem. If we had kept Riise, Aurelio, Finnan and Arbeloa and then went out and poured all our summer resources into buying two top quality midfielders, left and right, I would have been more than happy. We now have 3 right backs and 3 left backs which is too many.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:21 am

PabloAimar wrote:i have a feeling degen is gna be poo.

dossenna couldn't get into italy squad... fair enough the world champions have other decent left backs.

but degen couldn't even get into the SWISS team... or even appear as a sub! - they're hardly a squad already filled with world class defenders and if this guy didnt even get a look in one of the (if not THE) poorest team in the competition i fear the worst!

Degen was recovering from injury (missed most if not all of the 2nd half of the season) and wasn't match fit, plus fullback is one of the Swiss strong points. He has 29 Swiss caps and comes from a decent league. I am not expecting a lot but from what I have read his MO is that he like to get forward a lot and that Rafa has been scouting him for a long time. I think he had a lot of promise as a youngster and for some reason or another (one reason being injuries) he hasn't quite elevated his game to the level that could have been. Maybe under rafa and at Liverpool he could reach that potential, but maybe not, he is on a free so its not like its preventing Rafa from making other signings.

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:24 am

Not having agger for me didnt cost us the prem but it did cost us the CL fit agger would have held of chavs and prob JAR wouldnt have had to make that last min fook up. :nod

by **Toffeehater** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:45 pm

john craig wrote:Why is Finnan suddenly not good enough?

Last summer he was being praised as our most consistent player after Carragher. He had several niggling injuries this season and didn't play as much, now all of a sudden his age is an issue and he's not good enough at getting forward.

In fact he's the most effective full back we have in the final third. His crosses right and left footed are very good. Defensively he's sound. His only problem as I see it is lack of pace/mobility meaning he can't get into the final third enough. But he lacked pace and athleticism when he was getting praised as our second most consistent player last summer, so imo that hasn't changed. For some reason peoples' opinions of him have.

spot on mate , he's been one of the most loyal players in the premier league and also the unsung hero . Finnan in the team anyday over arbeloa

by **SundanceKid** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:32 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
john craig wrote:Why is Finnan suddenly not good enough?

Last summer he was being praised as our most consistent player after Carragher. He had several niggling injuries this season and didn't play as much, now all of a sudden his age is an issue and he's not good enough at getting forward.

In fact he's the most effective full back we have in the final third. His crosses right and left footed are very good. Defensively he's sound. His only problem as I see it is lack of pace/mobility meaning he can't get into the final third enough. But he lacked pace and athleticism when he was getting praised as our second most consistent player last summer, so imo that hasn't changed. For some reason peoples' opinions of him have.

spot on mate , he's been one of the most loyal players in the premier league and also the unsung hero . Finnan in the team anyday over arbeloa

But then age can usually control anything. He's getting old and it's time we find someone that can replace him when he's gone. Not saying he's not good enough but he will be gone soon.

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:35 am

That is true , but a ageing finnan is still better than arbeloa , he may not have the pace but going forward and defending he's definitely still sound . He also has experience in the premier league on his side . He's got maybe a season or two left before he becomes a permanent backup , rafa should start scouting some right backs next season adn signing a top one must be his priority .

by **PabloAimar** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:44 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
PabloAimar wrote:i have a feeling degen is gna be poo.

dossenna couldn't get into italy squad... fair enough the world champions have other decent left backs.

but degen couldn't even get into the SWISS team... or even appear as a sub! - they're hardly a squad already filled with world class defenders and if this guy didnt even get a look in one of the (if not THE) poorest team in the competition i fear the worst!

Degen was recovering from injury (missed most if not all of the 2nd half of the season) and wasn't match fit, plus fullback is one of the Swiss strong points. He has 29 Swiss caps and comes from a decent league. I am not expecting a lot but from what I have read his MO is that he like to get forward a lot and that Rafa has been scouting him for a long time. I think he had a lot of promise as a youngster and for some reason or another (one reason being injuries) he hasn't quite elevated his game to the level that could have been. Maybe under rafa and at Liverpool he could reach that potential, but maybe not, he is on a free so its not like its preventing Rafa from making other signings.

ahh, u mean like voronin :;):

i hope i'm wrong but hardly think this sort of signing is going to turn us into genuine title contenders.

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