Liverpool FC Forum

Number 9 wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

Number 9 wrote:A joke and a liability?
A joke and a liability that scored 7 C/L goals and would have had a MAJOR part in getting his team to the final only for a very unlucky own goal by Riise?

If thats what you call a joke and a liability i hope we sign some more.
Ashton is better than Kuyt??
Are you sure about that?
Holland are heads and shoulders above the England team,Kuyt is on the teamsheet!
The England team is a joke compared to Holland,will Ashton get on the England team if they qualify for the worldcup?Will he fuc'k?
Kuyt is playing at LFC under one of the best managers of the modern game!
Where is Ashton?Will he EVER sign for a BIG club??NOT A CHANCE!!
Ask yourself why?

Yes I'm 100% sure Ashton is a better player than Kuyt could dream of being in probably every area of the game with the exception of work rate and general fitness.

He's better in the air, a better finisher, quicker, alot stronger, better with his back to goal, has a better touch... etc etc.

You then mention the Dutch team... are you sitting there saying to me Kuyt is better than Robben, van Nistlerooy and van Persie? Or even one of those players?



Thats like saying Raul is because he can't get in the Spanish team...

And I forgot about your logic that no good players can play outside the top four teams...

Stu when Pennant signed were practically saying he was fantastic and he was gonna be great for LFC!Now knowing you and your arrogance,im sure you will come up with some excuse as to why he has not and never will make it at LFC...and it will be the usual."I am 100% right and thats it"post that you always type!
Blatently you were wrong!
Hes been a failure and not good enough for LFC,that is obvious to anyone,he should have stayed at Birmingham!

Now a little while down the line a player you practically say has only workrate and effort as his credentials has kept him out of the team on merit!
Can you honestly say that Pennant should be starting on the right before Kuyt given the fact that there is light and day between there performances?
Maybe you will admit you were wrong about Pennant??lol Some chance of that eh??
Bottom line is you were though.The point being is that you come on these boards and post as if you know it all and are never wrong.In your head you are always right,well the only place you are always right is in your head Stu!
As for Kuyt though,everyone has a right to their opinion...maybe at the end of next season he will prove you wrong as Pennant has...lets wait and see!

And i have never once said that there are no good players outside the top 4!There are plenty mate.Plenty better than Ashton and Bullard as well!

Jermaine Pennant is a right winger who beats players and puts crosses into area's in the box.

Jermaine Pennants strengths are crossing and having the ability to beat a man in a wide area.

You bang on about him failing, he's not a great player. He's not a world class player, but he's a decent player (like Kuyt). He doesn't have anyone in the side though who helps his game by getting the best out of his strengths. He also plays infront of a right back who never crosses the halfway line, he unlike Kuyt is poor at holding the ball up.

Pennant has been shafted by Benitez, as at the time he was signed we had Morientes, Crouch and Fowler as the clubs strikers.

All of which benefit off crosses. All of which (to differing degrees) attack the ball also. Now your stupidity doesn't allow you to understand that... your lack of knowledge even had you saying Kuyt is as important as Gerrard and Torres... but thats neither here nor there....

What happens is, when you have a team, you need players to compliment each other for it to work and be as effetive as possible in as many situations as possible. Thats another reason we have tacitcal systems, to help get the best out of a player. Are you following so far or do you want me to slow down and dumb it down even more for you??

Now, when you have a player such as Pennant, who's strengths are crossing and beating players he needs strikers who will attack the balls he puts into the box. Make sense? No? Didn't think it would...

He also needs full backs that will create space for him. Now to put it into thicko terms for you...

Blackburn Rovers in 95 won the premiership. Their wingers were Stuart Ripley and Jason Wilcox, neither of which were great players and to be honest, neither were better than Pennant. Now what happened there is though they had two strikers who got the best out of those two players and they functioned as a team making those players do what they could, IE they beat men and crossed and left the rest to Shearer and Sutton who both loved attacking a ball and reading the flight of a ball. If you also remember Fowler for Liverpool around that time, he made McAteer look better than he was due to McAteer's ability to put in a good cross, the amount of goals he scored from crosses was immense.

Now when you beat a man, you can't always look up and put the ball on someones head, not even the worlds best players can do that.... nine out of ten times you put it into an area and say to your forwards, there ya go, theres the cross, go and attack that ball. A great cross needs a forward to convert it, the amount of great crosses Pennant's put in and Kuyt and others stood there and watched was a joke. Fans then groan at Pennant... when the fact is he's done his job, its the other imcompetent dicks that don't do theres.

Great strikers like Fowler, Shearer etc (going back a few years... Sheringham, Ferdinand) these players go and attack crosses.

Now compare these players to the likes of Bellamy, Kuyt, Voronin and even to an extent Torres.

None of these strikers attack crosses, none of these players score goals in the same way the other strikers i've mentioned do (Shearer at his best etc etc). Or is that something else you can't see? You can't see these players are different and score different types of goals... probably not, my guess is you are to much of an idiot to understand the basics of the game like this.

Now surely you can understand, if you're good at something you want others there that are good at doing another thing which helps you? Surely you understand the meaning of the word team? Maybe if I use examples that have asmall amount of alchohol in it you'll understand???

Pennant isn't a world beater, he's a good player who's good at things. It just so happens that we no longer have any players who compliment him. A few years ago when we had those players I'd have had him all day. Thats when I wanted the lad. I look at players and see whether they can do anything for others around them aswell as lookin at them as an individual.

Run along you sad little man

s@int wrote:Kuyt is better with the present setup..... Torres up front. Pennant needs a striker who is an aggressive header to feed off his crosses, something we havent got at the moment...... Crouch is tall but is hardly aggressive, and Torres feeds more on through balls than crosses, which is why I still think we need a creative second striker, but thats an arguement for another time maybe.

There ya go Wan*fast... Saint gets it... your to busy in ya dark room with ya tissues and illegal porn

Kuyt is better yes... but better doesn't mean good enough Saint. He's not upto it mate, simple as that.

Shame we never got that Arshavin. Thats the second striker we've been calling out for.

The Manhattan Project wrote:Ashton is shyt.


He couldn't lace Kuyt's boots.

Number 9 wrote:So are you saying that Torres cant attack crosses and thats why Pennant is shi'te?..OK fair enough!

And another reason is that the players around him dont compliment his game?
Surely then that means that he has a very limited game?If he was as good as you say he is surely a player of this quality could adapt?

Just face it Stu you were wrong about Pennant,he's average at best.Has had some good games but the majority have been average or below and thats why he wont be at LFC much longer!

Lets see where he goes eh?
Of course he will go to a team with target men and become the best winger in England!

As for the alcohol and sad little man comments?
Nothing less than i expected from you,if you are expecting a comeback and another one of your debates that end in a trading of insults and inevitably cards being issued.Look elsewhere because I cant be fu'cked with that anymore!

No, I'm not saying Torres "can't attack crosses" thats why Pennant's . I'm saying Pennant's a good player, good at what he does but the forwards we have don't get the best out of his qualities as his strengths don't compliment the strikers strengths.

Is it really that hard to comprehend? Can you sit there and say Torres attacks a cross aswell as Fowler, Shearer, Ferdinand etc etc etc... if you think that then you're an even bigger idiot than you make yourself out to be with every post.

I don't make Pennant out to be something he's not. He's a good player, not a great one. As for adapting well I'm sorry, but not all great players can adapt so I don't see why you think a good player should. Do I think he should be in this team? Not anymore I don't. We don't have the players in terms of style to be able to accomadate him.

Robbie Fowler under Houllier being a prime example of a player that didn't suit a system. He struggled with Houlliers style of play and the players brought in, don't sit there and say to me he wasn't a great player though. If you get the very best out of good players (Carragher) they can do a very good job for a side.

The fact is different forwards need different types of supply to score alot of goals. With Fowler, Morientes and Crouch is was crosses... which Pennant provides... with the current forwards its very different.

Not that I expect you to understand any of that...

Number 9 wrote:I understand perfectly what you are trying to say Stu.I also understand that its as close as your stubornness will allow you to admit you were wrong about Pennant.

But the basic concept of your arguement is that if we had a Shearer or say a Drogba in our team Pennant would be a better player!
Its wrong,he would not,he would still be average and not good enough for LFC!You argue that beating a man and crossing are the strengths to his game.Well hes as good as loosing the ball as he is at beating a man.AT TIMES he makes deliveries that are good i'll give you that.
Overall though in any chances he has been given at LFC he has been poor in most games and at times barely noticable on the pitch.

It doesnt matter if you put the best ball attacking centre forward in the world upfront.
Pennant still lacks ability and is vastly inconsistant.
Thats why Kuyt played the last half of the season where Pennant would have been if anywhere near good enough!

The one good thing is though that it seems he will be off over the summer!
Lets see if he goes to a team with a big target man and where everyone else compliments his game,then he will suddenly become the player you said he was(now downgraded to just GOOD)?
If thats the case i will happily come back here and tell you that you were right...no bother!

The basic concept of my arguement is not Pennant would be a better player. His ability level wouldn't change. What would change is his confidence and clarity of role aswell as the players around him getting the best out of him.

I have only had to say that 5 or 6 times for it to even begin to sink in... on the ale again by any chance?

Now for the best bit...

Posted by wan*fast...

Has had some good games but the majority have been average

Overall though in any chances he has been given at LFC he has been poor in most games

So which is it?

Number 9 wrote:Good in a few and Poor in most average in some!You got the drift im sure!
Basically not good enough and you know it as well as i do!


Attempts at personal insults as per usual when you know you are wrong!Nothing changes Stu!
If ya want a reaction your gonna need to try a bit harder than wa,nkfast and ale!

Oooo Moral high ground, Barry's all grown up everyone. About time...

Fo Dne wrote:

Number 9 wrote:Good in a few and Poor in most average in some!You got the drift im sure!
Basically not good enough and you know it as well as i do!


Attempts at personal insults as per usual when you know you are wrong!Nothing changes Stu!
If ya want a reaction your gonna need to try a bit harder than wa,nkfast and ale!

Oooo Moral high ground, Barry's all grown up everyone. About time...

Shurrup, you're getting older aswell. The good old Stu would have scalated a situation in this thread and would have 4 cards already.

You're getting softer. 

To be fair to Stu, I think it's unfair to point him out cases like Pennant. I for one also valued his last season and I think he's a good player. Yet I'm dissapointed with his progress this season, and I wonder the reason. Remember that Pennant played well enough at some point to be on the fringe to be called for England, he even was asked about it. But this season has been dissapointing and I wonder the reasons.

I say it's unfair to point him out that because he talks a lot of footie, and there's NO poster that gets right every judgement on player when the test of time is done.