Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:25 pm

JoeTerp wrote:ahh but ConnOv'ar I never questioned wether Villa and Torres could play together, I question whether we have the right set up of players to create a 9 player system to adequately support the two strikers. The point coming from that most of our success came last year from 10 players supporting Torres as a lone striker (with Gerrard getting heavily involved himself).

Like has been stated before I think it would be a little bit of a waste and or miss use of funds to buy a player LIKE David Villa and play him in last year's Kuyt, or Babel role. If you play him in last years Gerrard role, well now Gerrard is out there on the right (and some people are ok with that, but some aren't and I don't know what camp your in). THe "other" option would be to adopt a 4-4-2 in which Babel is now playing more of an out and out left midfield role, in which I think it is perfectly legitamate to question whether he will have success there or not. Also there would no longer be two holding midfielders, and that may or may not have a huge impact on how the games are played.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over

to put it simply joeterp, your concern is whether we have quality WINGERS to switch back to 4-4-2... cause you were saying that Babel might not be happy and that kuyt is not good enough... something along those lines... correct?

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:40 pm

Villa wouldn't succeed (to the extent Torres has) in the premier league IMO due to his style of play.

He's a good player, but not for LFC. We don't have anything like the players capable of getting the best out of him and tacitally we don't suit his game at all. Not even slightly.

by **SundanceKid** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:20 pm

skatesy wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:How does Torres not apply?

I thought the same.

I think what he is trying to say is that we didn't sign the "next big thing". Torres was considered a good player but he was not firing on all cylinders and widely considered as the best.

I think the general consensus is that we wish we could sign someone is an up and coming star who is considered as one of the best.

I don't see what doesn't make Torres the best striker in Premiership. If he took all of our penalties and had nearly the amount of shots Ronaldo has taken, believe Chelsea would have offered x2 whatever was said they offered.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:54 pm

maguskwt wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:ahh but ConnOv'ar I never questioned wether Villa and Torres could play together, I question whether we have the right set up of players to create a 9 player system to adequately support the two strikers. The point coming from that most of our success came last year from 10 players supporting Torres as a lone striker (with Gerrard getting heavily involved himself).

Like has been stated before I think it would be a little bit of a waste and or miss use of funds to buy a player LIKE David Villa and play him in last year's Kuyt, or Babel role. If you play him in last years Gerrard role, well now Gerrard is out there on the right (and some people are ok with that, but some aren't and I don't know what camp your in). THe "other" option would be to adopt a 4-4-2 in which Babel is now playing more of an out and out left midfield role, in which I think it is perfectly legitamate to question whether he will have success there or not. Also there would no longer be two holding midfielders, and that may or may not have a huge impact on how the games are played.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over

to put it simply joeterp, your concern is whether we have quality WINGERS to switch back to 4-4-2... cause you were saying that Babel might not be happy and that kuyt is not good enough... something along those lines... correct?

I don't have that big of a problem with Kuyt. And I have another issue in that Gerrard would be either moved back to CM with Macherano, forcing him to defend more, or moved to the right. I am not really of much of an opinion on that, I am just bringing it up as consequences of Torres playing with a strike partner whether that be Crouch, David Villa, Eto'o, Owen, or Ian Rush

by **premwanter** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:04 pm

I just heard on 693 that a Liverpool fan who was 60 went to Florida looked up Gillett and managed to talk to him for 40 mins about the club!!!
Apparently he is going to do an interview with them tomorrow!
The fan that is?

by **ConnO'var** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:05 am

JoeTerp wrote:ahh but ConnOv'ar I never questioned wether Villa and Torres could play together, I question whether we have the right set up of players to create a 9 player system to adequately support the two strikers. The point coming from that most of our success came last year from 10 players supporting Torres as a lone striker (with Gerrard getting heavily involved himself).

Like has been stated before I think it would be a little bit of a waste and or miss use of funds to buy a player LIKE David Villa and play him in last year's Kuyt, or Babel role. If you play him in last years Gerrard role, well now Gerrard is out there on the right (and some people are ok with that, but some aren't and I don't know what camp your in). THe "other" option would be to adopt a 4-4-2 in which Babel is now playing more of an out and out left midfield role, in which I think it is perfectly legitamate to question whether he will have success there or not. Also there would no longer be two holding midfielders, and that may or may not have a huge impact on how the games are played.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over

Sorry Joe... misunderstood your point.... really need to read posts a little better before jumping in...

To answer your question is a little difficult as it depends a lot on your footballing points of view and likes and for that, there's no hard and fast rule, only preferences. Me? I'm an advocate of putting players in their best positions and formulating the team and strategy to suit the players we have whenever we play against the so called "inferior" teams. For teams with better quality manpower, then I prefer the neutralisation approach where we counter their threats via sacrificing our players' preferred playing style.

With the current squad of players, this is how I would set-up the team if we had Villa as well as Torres. (I've ignored Dossena and Degen as I'm yet to see them play so can't judge them outright).

IMO opinion, this is our current crop of best players.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Aurelio, Gerrard, Mascherano, Xabi, Skrtel, Babel and Torres.... + David Villa. Which leaves us with possible teams that I personally think will work.

My favoured 5-3-2, which has many detractors (as our wing backs aren't good enough) or a 4-3-3 which has its own problems as well (inadequate cover down the flanks when defending).

Reina
Carra Agger Skrtel
Arbeloa Aurelio
Gerrard Xabi Masch
Torres Villa

OR

Reina
Arbeloa Carra Agger Aurelio
Gerrard Xabi Masch
Villa Torres Babel

With the resources on hand, these are the 2 outfield formations that I feel will work if we get Villa. In a classic 4-4-2 or Rafa's (apparent) favourite 4-2-3-1 (which can translate into a 4-5-1), I don't think David Villa will be as effective. To do an effective 4-4-2 and STILL incorporate Villa into the squad, we are short of 2 wingers (seems to always boil down to that even after years of having that problem).

So to answer you, yes I think that we can have Villa in the team with the current squad and still be an improvement over last year..... but the Stu is absolutely spot on, imo. The set-up has to change.

by **SundanceKid** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:40 am

ConnO'var wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:ahh but ConnOv'ar I never questioned wether Villa and Torres could play together, I question whether we have the right set up of players to create a 9 player system to adequately support the two strikers. The point coming from that most of our success came last year from 10 players supporting Torres as a lone striker (with Gerrard getting heavily involved himself).

Like has been stated before I think it would be a little bit of a waste and or miss use of funds to buy a player LIKE David Villa and play him in last year's Kuyt, or Babel role. If you play him in last years Gerrard role, well now Gerrard is out there on the right (and some people are ok with that, but some aren't and I don't know what camp your in). THe "other" option would be to adopt a 4-4-2 in which Babel is now playing more of an out and out left midfield role, in which I think it is perfectly legitamate to question whether he will have success there or not. Also there would no longer be two holding midfielders, and that may or may not have a huge impact on how the games are played.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over

Sorry Joe... misunderstood your point.... really need to read posts a little better before jumping in...

To answer your question is a little difficult as it depends a lot on your footballing points of view and likes and for that, there's no hard and fast rule, only preferences. Me? I'm an advocate of putting players in their best positions and formulating the team and strategy to suit the players we have whenever we play against the so called "inferior" teams. For teams with better quality manpower, then I prefer the neutralisation approach where we counter their threats via sacrificing our players' preferred playing style.

With the current squad of players, this is how I would set-up the team if we had Villa as well as Torres. (I've ignored Dossena and Degen as I'm yet to see them play so can't judge them outright).

IMO opinion, this is our current crop of best players.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Aurelio, Gerrard, Mascherano, Xabi, Skrtel, Babel and Torres.... + David Villa. Which leaves us with possible teams that I personally think will work.

My favoured 5-3-2, which has many detractors (as our wing backs aren't good enough) or a 4-3-3 which has its own problems as well (inadequate cover down the flanks when defending).

Reina
Carra Agger Skrtel
Arbeloa Aurelio
Gerrard Xabi Masch
Torres Villa

OR

Reina
Arbeloa Carra Agger Aurelio
Gerrard Xabi Masch
Villa Torres Babel

With the resources on hand, these are the 2 outfield formations that I feel will work if we get Villa. In a classic 4-4-2 or Rafa's (apparent) favourite 4-2-3-1 (which can translate into a 4-5-1), I don't think David Villa will be as effective. To do an effective 4-4-2 and STILL incorporate Villa into the squad, we are short of 2 wingers (seems to always boil down to that even after years of having that problem).

So to answer you, yes I think that we can have Villa in the team with the current squad and still be an improvement over last year..... but the Stu is absolutely spot on, imo. The set-up has to change.

I like the first formation, but maybe with Masch playing behind Gerrard and Alonso

On the topic about Villa. Just as the thread says, he's just like a HD DVD player. His cost isn't going to be as big of a deal when you're going to buy needed players to establish the rest of the formation.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:07 am

I was going to bring up the 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 solution as I like that the best, but thought that was going to be bringing too many things into play

. Especially if we do sign Barry I think the 5-3-2 would work wonders, for me it would be more of a 3-3-2-2 with mascherano being on the same level as the attacking fullbacks more or less and then an offensive "box" with gerrard on the right and barry on the left and torres and villa working together up top. I think this formation would share the same type of ethos that the 4-2-3-1 thrived on because you end up with a 4 pronged attack that can more or less go balls to wall on offensive, with a really solid group behind. And although Masch would now be more or less acting as the loan holding midfielder in teh centre, it would be ok because there are three centre halfs. ANd because there are three centre halfs the fullbacks can afford to get a little more adventerous. And on top of all that its not like Gerrard and Barry shy away from putting in tackles either.

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