Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:33 am

JoeTerp wrote:I am not sold on Babel as a left midfielder, and I think Gerrard's production would drop if he had only mascherano behind him in the holding role, but I guess that would be ok because Villa or any other top quality frontman would provide a lot more in the attack than Alonso did, so much so that it would more than likely make up for any drop off in Gerrard's offensive numbers.

the thing is joeterp, Villa is technically gifted enough to play together with torres... I had doubts about those two playing together long time ago... but after watching them in euro I do believe they can play together. Villa is a more technically superior version of Owen IMO and he could link up well between Gerrard and Torres or Torres could play deeper. Both of them also could pull away defenders for Babbel and Gerrard to attack from deep. like this:

Torres Villa
/ |
/ |
Babel Gerrard Kuyt

Masherano

Not too worried about our offence when we can get Villa! Only thing is will alonso be able to stay with us and sit on the bench if we revert to 4-4-2?

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:52 am

I was never worried about the Villa Torres partnership itself, that has been discussed in other threads.

by **stmichael** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:34 am

Personally I feel this notion that we need an 'in the hole' player is complete nonsense. Gerrard has just played there this season and scored 20+ goals whilst the player he was helping set up scored 30+ goals.

The 2 "wide" forwards who flank the middle striker should all be interchangeable. This would give us more flexibility and more unpredictability. Rafa tried a front 3 away at Reading earlier in the season when we lost 3-1, but didn't have the personnel that day to make it work. For what its worth, Villa can play anywhere along the fron three so doesn't need to be played behind the striker.

In my opinion, Babel will be a star for us next season and can quite easily swap flanks over onto the right. Also, if it's correct about Rafa being given £20 million from the owners then why can we not keep Alonso and from the player sales raise the cash for Van Der Vaart or Arshavin and use the cash from the owners for Villa?

by **Jedi** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:08 pm

THE phoney war is nearly over, and the real business is about to start.

The vast majority of the transfer rumours which are the staple diet of the press and gossip websites can be dismissed as just that: rumours.

My mate saw Kaka in Lewis's; Ronaldinho is looking for a dentist in Manchester; Arshavin's dog is learning English.

But now, as Euro 2008 and the latest round of South American World Cup qualifiers draw to a close, and the transfer window creaks open, the more fanciful stories will fall away and be replaced by more concrete tales of how the latest unknown imports from darkest Africa and former Soviet republics have always been diehard supporters of their new club, and that their dream has come true with the donning of the red/blue/white shirt - provided it is stuffed with bundles of used tenners.

The prospective comings and goings at Anfield have filled many a column inch in recent weeks, with the size of Rafa's transfer budget the cause of much speculation.

The credit crunch has forced Rafa to sell to spend; or the new-found rapport between our co-owners has released additional funds to challenge for the top. Take your pick.

The reality is likely to be that Rafa will have a significant budget, courtesy of the refinanced loan negotiated in January, and that he will try to swell the coffers with a few strategic sales.

The thing that's worrying me at present is that the strategic sales are beginning to look like a fire sale of our best gear, rather than a clear-out of end-of-lines. Crouch, Alonso and now Benayoun are being touted as likely departees, along with young talents like Jack Hobbs and Emiliano Insua, whereas most fans would prefer the discussion to be centring on the likes of Itandje, Pennant and Voronin.

The problem of course is that these three are worth about tuppence-ha'penny, while we'll need big bucks to attract the star names we need to bolster our wings.

One national paper yesterday linked us with Villa, Silva and Daniel Alves, which is nice, but we'd probably have to throw in the Centenary Stand and the Kop chippy to afford that lot.

The arrivals of Degen on a free transfer and Dossena from Udinese have not exactly set the pulse racing, the fear being that these will be the latest in a line of average full-backs to arrive like Arbeloa and Aurelio, or the downright hopeless like Josemi.

It looks like we'll get Gareth Barry once Martin O'Neill calms down, with Alonso sacrificed to appease the financial gods.

I'll be sorry to see him go, but I suppose we get a left-sided player and a few more goals as well from the bargain; although anyone watching Xabi play in a more advanced role for Spain against Greece last week will have been wondering why he isn't encouraged to play this way for Liverpool more often.

As for Crouchy, well the big guy is clearly unhappy with his lot, and his contract's up next year, so I suppose that spells exit.

Perhaps Rafa plans to move Babel forward next year to make up his complement of strikers, preparing the way for a mega-signing on the left-wing.

And I don't mean James Milner.

David Silva looks the man for me, despite reminding me of Jesper Olsen, the talented but frustrating United winger of the mid-80s.

By my calculations, throwing in the money we got for Riise, that leaves us with a few bob to get a right-winger in too.

I hear there's a Portuguese fella looking to leave Old Trafford?

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:42 pm

Jedi wrote:I hear there's a Portuguese fella looking to leave Old Trafford?

Nani?

by **SundanceKid** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:41 pm

I'm starting to worry we're not going to get serious signings this season =/

by **Reg** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:46 pm

Dont worry Sundance lad, you should be used to it after 30 years.

The last BIG signing we made, someone on top of his game who then scaled new heights from there, was Kenny back in 77.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:14 am

How does Torres not apply?

by **SundanceKid** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:35 am

JoeTerp wrote:How does Torres not apply?

I thought the same.

by **babu** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:50 am

Jedi wrote:THE phoney war is nearly over, and the real business is about to start.

The vast majority of the transfer rumours which are the staple diet of the press and gossip websites can be dismissed as just that: rumours.

My mate saw Kaka in Lewis's; Ronaldinho is looking for a dentist in Manchester; Arshavin's dog is learning English.

But now, as Euro 2008 and the latest round of South American World Cup qualifiers draw to a close, and the transfer window creaks open, the more fanciful stories will fall away and be replaced by more concrete tales of how the latest unknown imports from darkest Africa and former Soviet republics have always been diehard supporters of their new club, and that their dream has come true with the donning of the red/blue/white shirt - provided it is stuffed with bundles of used tenners.

The prospective comings and goings at Anfield have filled many a column inch in recent weeks, with the size of Rafa's transfer budget the cause of much speculation.

The credit crunch has forced Rafa to sell to spend; or the new-found rapport between our co-owners has released additional funds to challenge for the top. Take your pick.

The reality is likely to be that Rafa will have a significant budget, courtesy of the refinanced loan negotiated in January, and that he will try to swell the coffers with a few strategic sales.

The thing that's worrying me at present is that the strategic sales are beginning to look like a fire sale of our best gear, rather than a clear-out of end-of-lines. Crouch, Alonso and now Benayoun are being touted as likely departees, along with young talents like Jack Hobbs and Emiliano Insua, whereas most fans would prefer the discussion to be centring on the likes of Itandje, Pennant and Voronin.

The problem of course is that these three are worth about tuppence-ha'penny, while we'll need big bucks to attract the star names we need to bolster our wings.

One national paper yesterday linked us with Villa, Silva and Daniel Alves, which is nice, but we'd probably have to throw in the Centenary Stand and the Kop chippy to afford that lot.

The arrivals of Degen on a free transfer and Dossena from Udinese have not exactly set the pulse racing, the fear being that these will be the latest in a line of average full-backs to arrive like Arbeloa and Aurelio, or the downright hopeless like Josemi.

It looks like we'll get Gareth Barry once Martin O'Neill calms down, with Alonso sacrificed to appease the financial gods.

I'll be sorry to see him go, but I suppose we get a left-sided player and a few more goals as well from the bargain; although anyone watching Xabi play in a more advanced role for Spain against Greece last week will have been wondering why he isn't encouraged to play this way for Liverpool more often.

As for Crouchy, well the big guy is clearly unhappy with his lot, and his contract's up next year, so I suppose that spells exit.

Perhaps Rafa plans to move Babel forward next year to make up his complement of strikers, preparing the way for a mega-signing on the left-wing.

And I don't mean James Milner.

David Silva looks the man for me, despite reminding me of Jesper Olsen, the talented but frustrating United winger of the mid-80s.

By my calculations, throwing in the money we got for Riise, that leaves us with a few bob to get a right-winger in too.

I hear there's a Portuguese fella looking to leave Old Trafford?

Quote your source next time please.

Ripped from here

by **skatesy** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:31 am

SundanceKid wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:How does Torres not apply?

I thought the same.

I think what he is trying to say is that we didn't sign the "next big thing". Torres was considered a good player but he was not firing on all cylinders and widely considered as the best.

I think the general consensus is that we wish we could sign someone is an up and coming star who is considered as one of the best.

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:00 am

Sabre wrote:That's one of the oldest debates in football. Whether you must suit your tactics to the players you have, or the opposite, believe in your tactics and buy the players that will suit it. There are coaches of both schools. I'm more of the school of "believe in quality". As I've seen tactics come and go, but I've always seen that talent has been the most important thing on a football pitch.

The exception to this rule for me are the too lazy players. Some players can be a bad influence due to their lack of workrate, even if they're crowded with quality.

Excellent post. Agreed on both counts Sabre.

Unless, there are obvious disciplinary issues with a player, I'd take talent and adapt a team to suit the talents on hand rather than getting a mediocre player to fill in a required slot in an established system everytime too.

My only proviso to that is that once you have the position and players sorted out, you try to ensure a settled site to promote teamwork, familiarity and all that other good stuff.... (*Note: I tried very hard to avoid the "R" word...

).

So to answer Joe's question..... If David Villa is available, we can afford it and he wants to come here, get him.... we'll find a way to suit both him and Nando in the squad.

I had a discussion with LFC2007 a while back where I expressed my hesitation in pairing them up in a classic 4-4-2 as I think that they're too similar. He disagreed and I have to say, the more I've watched Villa, the more I think that LFC2007 was right.... they should be able to play together well.... We just need to get the set-up right. It's not impossible.....

Hiddink's done it consecutively with South Korea, Australia and now Russia. Manages to build a team which plays to the strengths of it's individual components resulting in an assembly that is greater than the sum of all it's parts.

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:04 am

edit.... double post

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:34 pm

ahh but ConnOv'ar I never questioned wether Villa and Torres could play together, I question whether we have the right set up of players to create a 9 player system to adequately support the two strikers. The point coming from that most of our success came last year from 10 players supporting Torres as a lone striker (with Gerrard getting heavily involved himself).

Like has been stated before I think it would be a little bit of a waste and or miss use of funds to buy a player LIKE David Villa and play him in last year's Kuyt, or Babel role. If you play him in last years Gerrard role, well now Gerrard is out there on the right (and some people are ok with that, but some aren't and I don't know what camp your in). THe "other" option would be to adopt a 4-4-2 in which Babel is now playing more of an out and out left midfield role, in which I think it is perfectly legitamate to question whether he will have success there or not. Also there would no longer be two holding midfielders, and that may or may not have a huge impact on how the games are played.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over

by **nemolyk** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:21 pm

s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Torres playing up beside Villa in our team wouldn't work. It's pointless unless we have two attacking full backs, a quality left winger, and at least a 10 goal a season class right winger. Villa is not the solution to bring us the Prem, girls and boys. The other areas I've stated are. Forget about Villa.

I wouldn't argue with that Emerald....... if you can tell me who is going to play striker when/IF Torres is injured and out for a couple of months? Babel is untested and to be honest doesn't look anywhere near ready to fire us to the title, and Kuyt..... I don't think so

We need a striker, be it Villa or even Crouch staying. If we get a Villa type striker we would have to play him (you don't pay £20million+ to sit them on a bench)

right,it is a excellent question if torres get injuried
but if we buy villa,we do not have adequate quality player to support the two 'EL' which means we do nothing
a good strike need good backing
he cannot success by himself,so does villa
well,i deem we should put money on some excellent winger or full-back rather than a striker

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