Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:21 pm

Here's a poser for you, there is a definite answer but it may be more interesting to muse over it and discuss. This morning I was thinking about the (1st team) players still here from before Rafa arrived and those signed in Rafa's first season - which is there more of?

Assuming Kewell and now Riise are memories, LFC players no more, then I make it Gerrard, Finnan, Hyypia and Carragher. But how many are there that Rafa signed in 2004/5, his first season, that are still here now?

by **metalhead** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:22 pm

Alonso, I can think of.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:28 pm

Erm....ahhhh.......hmm now lets see........................................................................oh feck knows, just tell us Owz I can't be ersed working it out.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:31 pm

And while you're at it, tell us what's the point in the question. My guess is, the number of players still here from that first season is very low (nil maybe?) which would indicate that perhaps Dawson is onto something when he says that we change the players in the squad too much (or there is too much turnover as he puts it).

by **andy_g** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:36 pm

its the same as the answer to the question 'apart from Gerrard, Finnan, Hyypia and Carragher (all Houllier buys or earlier), how many of the champions league winning team are left?'

by **bigmick** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:38 pm

Ah feck off andy don't you start as well, just tell us how many FFS!!!! :angry:

by **andy_g** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:40 pm

bigmick wrote:Ah feck off andy don't you start as well, just tell us how many FFS!!!!

i'd love to mick, but i don't want to p!ss on owzat's bonfire.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:42 pm

gizza clue

by **laza** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:46 pm

bigmick wrote:And while you're at it, tell us what's the point in the question. My guess is, the number of players still here from that first season is very low (nil maybe?) which would indicate that perhaps Dawson is onto something when he says that we change the players in the squad too much (or there is too much turnover as he puts it).

Course there is a high turnover as soon as a player has a poor season he has to be shipped off. So we can take in Stevie Gs latest fancy

by **Torres25** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:00 pm

whats the point of this question?

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:05 pm

Rafa's transfers for 2004-2005:
Summer
Josemi...gone
Nunez...gone
Garcia...gone
Alonso...going?

January
Pellegrino...gone
Morientes...gone
Carson...going?

Right, what do I win?

by **Reg** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:06 pm

Torres25 wrote:whats the point of this question?

That maybe Rafa buys too many first team players that dont make the grade. We´ve had a lot of false starts that have cost the club a lot of money.

I watched the 2006 FA Cup final last night against West Ham, Morientes was painfully inadequate, had no impact on the game whatsoever, you can see why to some extent Rafa wants to play Gerrard behind the point striker, to give the attack more bite. Good midfielders (Hamman as well) have a greater impact on a game than a poor forward. PS Kewel was still sh.ite.

by **heimdall** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:08 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Rafa's transfers for 2004-2005:
Summer
Josemi...gone
Nunez...gone
Garcia...gone
Alonso...going?

January
Pellegrino...gone
Morientes...gone
Carson...going?

Right, what do I win?

And out of those 7 only 1 really ever made the grade, Alonso, Garcia had some good games but also some bloody poor ones. Anyway that is in the past and we need to look forwards.

by **andy_g** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:12 pm

heimdall wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Rafa's transfers for 2004-2005:
Summer
Josemi...gone
Nunez...gone
Garcia...gone
Alonso...going?

January
Pellegrino...gone
Morientes...gone
Carson...going?

Right, what do I win?

And out of those 7 only 1 really ever made the grade, Alonso, Garcia had some good games but also some bloody poor ones. Anyway that is in the past and we need to look forwards.

hhmmm... maybe you're on to something there, heimdall. players who didn't make the grade got shipped out. interesting.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:24 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Rafa's transfers for 2004-2005:
Summer
Josemi...gone
Nunez...gone
Garcia...gone
Alonso...going?

January
Pellegrino...gone
Morientes...gone
Carson...going?

Right, what do I win?

As a follow up and perhaps a discussion starter:

Josemi
cons: not good enough
pros: only cost 2 million, arguably pushed Finnan to improve, was sold quickly for a profit, if memory serves
verdict: bad selection by Rafa but quickly rectified

Nunez
cons: not good enough
pros: errr...got rid of quickly?
verdict: foisted on us by Mickey Owen and Madrid but perhaps Rafa should have held out for the cash?

Garcia
cons: ball waster
pros: trickster
verdict: defo good enough, IMO, and would still be doing a job for us had he stayed; a combination of homesickness and the need to sweeten the pot on the Torres deal sealed his fate but he was good business by Rafa

Alonso
cons: has arguably been found out by Premiership sides and his game has suffered for it
pros: still a cultured midfielder and a model pro who, IMO, would get into the squads (if not always the starting 11) of most of the top sides in Europe
verdict: absolutely good enough and Rafa's first truly great signing; he may be the one we come to regret selling the most

Pellegrino
cons: past it and not suited for the pace of English football
pros: may have been a positive influence in the dressing room and he may have provided just enough competition to get the best out of Sami that season?
verdict: still a poor transfer, given his neglible impact on the pitch

Morientes
cons: not suited for English football
pros: may have been a good influence on the other strikers?
verdict: in hindsight a poor transfer but one that most of us were applauding when it came off (who knew such a class player would look so ordinary over here?) Arguably Rafa stuck with him too long.

Carson
cons: not quite good enough for Liverpool but credit is due for his performance against Juve (apart from the Cannevaro goal)
pros: a young English keeper who we nabbed cheaply and who we should be able to sell for a decent profit if we don't bollox things up by over-valuing him too much
verdict: Should turn out to be Rafa's best piece of business for a back-up keeper (a market he strangely dabbles in a lot) but, if we're viewing these transfers as what they add to the team on the pitch, he's a mediocre buy at best

Liverpool FC Forum

Longevity

Who is online