Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:22 pm

Right. After that outburst, let's go back to topic, that is, end of discussion.

Crouch is another underrated player, IMHO. And I agree Bigmick when in another thread said that Rafa should have tried to sell him last summer. It would have been a good business.

Price? 10M would be nice. Because if you don't plan to use a player much, then I think with 10M you can buy a quality player to play regularly.

I still wonder why Crouch hasn't played much this season. Is it because his attitude in training is not good enough? Is it what Toshack says? that is, that Torres is a lone striker that isn't able to do a good partnership? (I don't think so, Villa is proving that theory wrong).

Whatever the reason, I admit Rafa's man management on Crouch case hasn't been the best.

by **metalhead** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:11 pm

Disagree sabre, I don't think crouch is an underrated player at all, and for 10m its going to be a really good business for us.

To answer your question, I think because we started playing the 4-5-1 formation in the end of january, which restricted crouch from getting any games, given Torres' form. Plus, voronin was ahead in the striker's que and crouch was 4th choice.

Yeh I would agree that Rafa could have handled the situation better, he shouldn't have declared he wants crouch to stay while he isn't playing him regularly or slap a 15m price tag that no team would pay that kind of money for crouch.

He will leave this summer, and good luck to him, scored some important goals in his liverpool career.

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:33 pm

Bamaga man wrote:It amazes me,

How we're all allowed to whinge about H&G.

How we're all allowed to whinge because we havent got enough money.

How we're all allowed to whinge about fixture lists, and the mass conspiracy against LFC.

But we're not allowed to voice our concerns or even question the manger and players when we lose a football match.

Note: Some of the so-called "doom mungers" are usually the first to share their happiness after a win, myself included, its not a one way street, like some seem to think.

exactly , we always seem to blame everything else when we lose , never the manger nor the players at all , and if it is the players , its always the usual who have a decent game at times , kuyt , crouch , riise , babel .

by **Sabre** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:11 pm

Oh Alonso and others also got stick.

As for the manager, I think that typically about a manager can be said the following things:

* He didn't get spot on the substitutions in a game: We have heard that criticism in quite a lot of games, and in others, where we won, some people said it was lúck and was ready to give stick to the manager.

* About a manager can be said that a formation is negative. Yesteryear the 4-5-1 was "negative", this year, it seems to be more accepted, but we also have heard criticism on that.

* About a manager can be said that he doesn't buy good enough players: we have had looong discussions about if Rafa has spent a lot or not, or a lot of mediocre players. With lots of numbers and comparisons.

* About a manager can be said the training methods are not appropiate. We do not comment that often because in England we have not access to Melwood, but we criticise his rotation policy.

* About a manager can be discussed his team selection, Rafa got stick for that aswell.

About a manager can be said that his man management is poor: Not the most heard thing, but sometimes it's heard.

So, Rafa, literally has been criticised in every single side in which a manager can be criticised, so it's untrue that he can't be criticised. IN fact, I'd say that those defending him have been in a corner this season at some points of it.

It's untrue Rafa can't be criticised! fact! we do that a lot in Newkit!!

So one thing is that some posters won't accept that criticism or won't consider it solid enough to change their minds, but criticism? we've had a lot of it concerning Rafa this season.

by **Simply Red** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:31 pm

In my opinion, he is worth more. How many strikers have International and Champions League Experience. He scores frequently. He is seldom injured has no attitude issues. He is a clean and youthful player. Not many have his physique. Guaranteed 15 goals a season. There should be more clubs interested.

However, lack of match practise and the fact that England didnt make the Euros, which could have really pushed up his price. Therefore, under these circamstances I would reluctantly accept 10m.

Harry could just pick him up in the bargain basement. Buy of the Season...Take him before we change our minds Harry!

by **Sabre** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:18 pm

Simply red: your first paragraph is precisely the reason I think Crouch is underrated.

If there are not more clubs interested, from Spain for instance, is because his wages, coming from England are high. Not high for Barcelona or Madrid, but too high for Atletico for instance.

Crouch is underrated, just as Pongolle was. How many games got Pongolle? not much, he went to Recreativo and now he's on the verge of signing for Atletico, for 7M pounds.

Sometimes, we value some players like Torres, Mascherano or Alonso the first year, and we underrate players like Crouch and Riise.

Yes, Riise. Red37 asked somewhere what happened to Pernia the spanish international. Nothing much happened, it's just that he was not that good, and the current LB, Arbeloa or Capdevila are not super either. It's a position that there are not many good players, and more than one team would be interested on him.

Let's value these players more. I don't like it when we offload playes as if they had no value.

by **Simply Red** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:38 pm

I agree Totally.

A few months ago, Kuyt had hit a low patch of form, but his true ability has been shown at the Euros.

This is what attracted me to LiverpoolFC for a start. The passion of the players and in return the clubs loyalty.

Having said that, very few players have the passion that existed a few years ago. In order to maintain progress you need passion and ability. Crouch has ability. Rafa had spotted it a long time ago.

You may lose form, but you never lose ability...

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:30 am

Sabre wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
because he does every day.

Prove that outburst precious.

I could give you 365 links of the last year, but, I'll give you this instead. www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk. It's all there.

Bamaga, you don't have problems to express your thoughts on the manager. Yes, sometimes you're dismissed with one liners instead of discussions, but, you also do your "police" stuff, by telling me I won't support this club when the Spaniards leave, calling the Canadian similar things, or naming us "thought police", happy clappy, or "happy with failure".

I don't agree S@int or Bigmick on rotation or Rafa any more than I agree with you. But I have "outbursts" with you and not with them (normally), because their posting style is less aggressive and ready to discuss ideas. Ironically I've seen yourself telling Bad Bob to go a game, and I've seen yourself offended when LeonMc tells you the same thing. Besides the notions and arguments Bigmick or S@int use, you could also copy something of their posting style.

I could give you 365 links of the last year, but, I'll give you this instead. www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk. It's all there.

Bamaga, you don't have problems to express your thoughts on the manager. Yes, sometimes you're dismissed with one liners instead of discussions, but, you also do your "police" stuff, by telling me I won't support this club when the Spaniards leave, calling the Canadian similar things, or naming us "thought police", happy clappy, or "happy with failure".

Hmmm we all have our bad points dont we Ivan, like stirring the pot yesteryear with certain members and admitting to me via PM that you used your lack of English nuances at the time to plead ignorance. But you were quite smug in thinking everyone thought you couldnt understand certain concepts while all the time playing on it.

When you became Mod you thought you ran the show and couldnt keep out of anything following people around the boards like a lost puppy just to see what was happening, in the hope there was an arguement and you could card someone. Making you Mod was a MUCH worse decision IMO than making Peewee mod, but there you go, its amazing how far a smelly long brown tongue will get you.

Talking of a.rses and licking them, YOUR THE BEST. You've seen over in the Leon thread that I've had words with a few others and like the vulture you are you feel all big and mighty and start on me because others were.

I couldnt give a flying fe.ck to what Leon thinks of me supporting LFC. I know he likes to think he is mister LFC, but thats water off a ducks back. You though, I will never regard as a true Liverpool supporter as your sig shows. The Sociedad badge covering the Liverbird. You only followed them when we signed Alonso IMOto watch his career progress. You may of taken a liken to LFC but thats about it. As our Spanish correspondant you can only go into detail about Rafa and his articles in Spanish and translate them, and know about the Spanish footballers lives. Take you now for example, twisting my words and everybody elses saying "your happy now BM, Alonsos going". Thats not true, but you carry on getting all emotional and cry like the big shelia you are,its amusing. You've wound me and possibly others up so much about your idol that at the end of the day it now doesnt bother me if he leaves, just to spite you, so how silly this has become.

I whinge all over newkitt, well I'd say I have more perspective on the team than the 'happy clappy' brigade. Who blame anything from weather conditions to the team lady on our performances. Of which if our performances are bad I will say, equally if there good I will say. I wont look at the whole thing through red tinted glasses like you, you who I suspect just to do it to lick a bit of batty.

This forum is in danger of becoming very plastic and childish ... only post 'pro' Rafa posts, and 'we've got the best manger in the world, but we lost today because the sun was in Reinas eyes' its pathetic a PERSPECTIVE AND BALANCE IS NEEDED !

NOW THATS THE END OF THE DISCUSSION BACK TO TOPIC.

I agree with the people on here that Crouch is underatted and was underused for periods of last season, certainly in the early part. If Rafa continues to use the positive formation he is using now, and continues to play Torres in the bulk of games. Then I cannot see Crouch willing and able to sit around on the bench for the majority of the season. But if Crouch had of been used a bit more, no doubt his price would of gone up, but I've already been shot down in flames for stating that bizarely.
I like Crouch I think he is a good player and offers us something different upfront, and he can find the onion bag, but like Alonso if he goes then so be it, its Rafas call.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:46 am

Sabre wrote:Oh Alonso and others also got stick.

As for the manager, I think that typically about a manager can be said the following things:

* He didn't get spot on the substitutions in a game: We have heard that criticism in quite a lot of games, and in others, where we won, some people said it was lúck and was ready to give stick to the manager.

* About a manager can be said that a formation is negative. Yesteryear the 4-5-1 was "negative", this year, it seems to be more accepted, but we also have heard criticism on that.

* About a manager can be said that he doesn't buy good enough players: we have had looong discussions about if Rafa has spent a lot or not, or a lot of mediocre players. With lots of numbers and comparisons.

* About a manager can be said the training methods are not appropiate. We do not comment that often because in England we have not access to Melwood, but we criticise his rotation policy.

* About a manager can be discussed his team selection, Rafa got stick for that aswell.

About a manager can be said that his man management is poor: Not the most heard thing, but sometimes it's heard.

So, Rafa, literally has been criticised in every single side in which a manager can be criticised, so it's untrue that he can't be criticised. IN fact, I'd say that those defending him have been in a corner this season at some points of it.

It's untrue Rafa can't be criticised! fact! we do that a lot in Newkit!!

So one thing is that some posters won't accept that criticism or won't consider it solid enough to change their minds, but criticism? we've had a lot of it concerning Rafa this season.

There is no doubt that Rafa has received criticism, but usually the critic is constructive or willing to debate the perceived problems, while his defenders tend to quickly become abusive rather than discuss the points raised?

It becomes almost impossible to criticise Rafa without being subjected to name calling , abuse, derogatory remarks about your job, personality, sexual preferences etc etc . Yet I can't remember any of the posters who find fault with SOME of Rafa's decisions abusing a poster for praising Rafa?

It was the same with Alonso a couple of seasons back (before it became "fashionable" to criticise him) if it was suggested that Alonso might just possibly have played a little below his usual high standards, or that under certain circumstances we might consider the possibility of selling him to strengthen the team in other areas.

by **Owzat** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:37 am

Portsmouth will make an opening bid of £10m for Liverpool striker Peter Crouch this week. (The Independent)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1....ult.stm

If we're going to throw £15m at Barny then we need funds and £10m is a pretty good price for Crouch

by **Sabre** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:54 pm

Bamaga, you really like me eh?

No problem with that rant, it's such a load of bitter bóllocks and can be easily answered.

When you became Mod you thought you ran the show and couldnt keep out of anything following people around the boards like a lost puppy just to see what was happening,

1/ This was only my 4th time as a moderator of a forum, hardly a great task for me. Yes, I was humbled that task was given to a Spaniard, but other than that, it was just a moderator task. The difference with you is that for me is a task, and for you, I don't know why, is some kind of "power". *shrug*

2/ I posted and lurked the threads as much as I do nowadays.

3/ I never got abuse here before I was a mod. Bad Bob didn't receive it either before being a mod. Both of us received stick when we were a mod from you. Which indicates, you might have a problem with foreigners being a mod. And that's called xenophobia.

in the hope there was an arguement and you could card someone. Making you Mod was a MUCH worse decision IMO than making Peewee mod, but there you go, its amazing how far a smelly long brown tongue will get you.

1/ I never appointed for the task, I was asked to do it.

2/ Again it's a task, and a painful one. If you lick :censored:

for being a mod, then you're a perfect idiot. If you see a privileged position in being a mod, then you have mental issues. I'm sure that the new mods have been tired of the task more than once in their spell. It's difficult, and sometimes you don't feel like doing it. That's why I resigned. It was difficult to enjoy the footie posts with people like you in a constant siege.

Of course I had a double goal by resigning. I let the mods know doing the job under that circunstamces and without being able to dish cards is impossible. Thankfully, that doesn't happen any more, and people like you are dished cards when they get irrational. So you don't bother me any more, because you can't step the line any more. And this place is better for it.

I couldnt give a flying fe.ck to what Leon thinks of me supporting LFC. I know he likes to think he is mister LFC, but thats water off a ducks back. You though, I will never regard as a true Liverpool supporter as your sig shows. The Sociedad badge covering the Liverbird. You only followed them when we signed Alonso IMOto watch his career progress.

I'll show you how you're a perfect :censored:

.

1/ The design of my signature is Jonnymac's, I never asked him to do me a signature.

2/ The original signature, had only the RS badge

3/ I asked him to please include my other loved club.

4/ It was him who "covered" the badge, and I think that's just a random decission of him, he could have put the other badge in the right.

5/ Jonnymac can confirm all this leaving you as an idiot. Which you are.

6/ It amazes me how you can say I support Liverpool because Alonso, when we're going to see soon enough that's untrue: I will continue in this forum and once again, your lies, and your "mind reading" will prove to be wrong.

7/ You're unable to read my mind. You're just idiot enough to think you know what I think and assume it's true.

8/ Equally your opinon about me is irrelevant, and just shows you don't like me. Which is nice. Because if I was liked by someone like you, I'd be very worried. Note that this is not :censored:

licking, but absolute disdain.

by **Sabre** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:59 pm

S@int says

There is no doubt that Rafa has received criticism, but usually the critic is constructive or willing to debate the perceived problems, while his defenders tend to quickly become abusive rather than discuss the points raised?

It becomes almost impossible to criticise Rafa without being subjected to name calling , abuse, derogatory remarks about your job, personality, sexual preferences etc etc . Yet I can't remember any of the posters who find fault with SOME of Rafa's decisions abusing a poster for praising Rafa?

Hmmm. For instance, the stick you got the other week was unfair and there was something of you comment.

I also admit the point that when you said the possibility of selling Alonso you got overreactions, possibly myself did such a thing.

But, I also think mate, that the problem is to divide the forum in "camps".

For instance, I don't have problems with your opinion on Rafa, because you don't insult him. You just are unconvinced of his job, and for me that's very natural in a fan's life, to reach that point.

What happens mate, is that the most vocal of both camps say sometimes insults and things like that, and when we answer to those things, at the end we offend the wrong people.

FOr instance, I have answered things about the Anti Rafas when they insult him as clueless. And it has happened that posters like bigmick thought those comments were aimed to him, which wasn't the case.

Similarly, when he talked about the thought police, some posters were offended, and asked who those might be.

In conclussion: we all have to respect more other's opinions, and forget a bit about the "camps" thing. It started like a little joke, and it ended up as a true division.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:32 am

No problem with that rant, it's such a load of bitter bóllocks and can be easily answered.

Yes its very easy to counter an arguement, when its somebodys opinion of you. You just counter it back with utter tripe. Take for example you call me xenaphopic, thats just to get a reaction IMO. My girlfriend is Australian so that would surely end speculation to that c.rappy statment. But as it happens I have in the past had a dig at you and Bob, and said something about him being Canadian, I'll admit Sabre I'm man enough to.
But "you cant read my mind" and know what I'm thinking deep down other than your a kunrt. But anyway carry on making silly acusations its quite funny, but not as funny as hearing you get all emotional and besotted with one player, thats funnier and it amuses me. As its the only real reason your here on these boards and dont pretend otherwise.
Like I said its "easy" to counter an opinion of yourself, but I noticed you didnt try and counter an undeniable fact and the truth, you disme\issed that one didnt you ........

Hmmm we all have our bad points dont we Ivan, like stirring the pot yesteryear with certain members and admitting to me via PM that you used your lack of English nuances at the time to plead ignorance. But you were quite smug in thinking everyone thought you couldnt understand certain concepts while all the time playing on it.

Because if I was liked by someone like you, I'd be very worried. Note that this is not licking, but absolute disdain.

And trust me the feeling is mutual, like yourself I'd be concerned getting on with you knowing what I now know about you. You twist peoples words, even in a football debates, thats just to top off the fact your footbll knowledge is pretty dismal though. Your a liar and a two faced s.hit stirrer who needs to be mister popular on a football forum to feed his ego, your very shallow Sabre and thats all there is to it.

But go on, have the last word I know you need to, but thats okay with me Swollen head you need to try and make yourself feel good. I suppose I would if I even had a slight resemblence to the Elephant man.

by **Sabre** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:54 am

your footbll knowledge is pretty dismal though

Whatever. Elephant man or not, the one to be happy about that is my girlfriend, not you. Let's move on, Newkit doesn't need any of this. And that's my last word on it, from now on I'll ignore your posts and problem solved.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:16 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:8-10 million.

If he was used more by Rafa we may of been able to get 10 plus, like .4.

I have also heard that the watch that Rafa bought Montse after Istanbul was giving off a lot of heat, and this has left a considerable hole in the ozone layer over the wirral, which has resulted in global warming, the melting of numerous ice caps and is the real reason those dolphins where washed up in Cornwall.

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