Liverpool FC Forum

by **Redman in wales** » Tue May 06, 2008 4:59 pm

NansPanofScouse wrote:
heimdall wrote:I'd like to see a better keeper becuase seriosuly I don't actually rate Reina as highly as most of you as a shot stopper if you compare him to Cech or Van der Sar

I know what your on about when it comes to Reina, he scares the hell out of me sometimes, but like all keepers they have their bad times and good times, though i have to say, i think Reina has more good than bad.

Maybe next season we will have to look at Keepers i dont think its something we need to focus on for now.

Another thing with Van Der Sar is that he aint no spring chicken, and Man U will have to be in the market for a second keeper. I remember seeing this guy play in the 1994 world cup, and he was first choice back then....

utd already have one.

after van der sar, Ben Foster will be their number 1, with Kuzack or whatever his name is, number 2.

Reina is awesome.... he has his dodgy moments, but what keeper doesn't. The goal keeper is not a position we need to strengthen this summer.... or even next

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:49 pm

I hope that we don't get Barry for the LW, there are much better choices out there.

I'd be much happier with one of these...

Silva
Guardado
Mancini
Ben Arfa
Quaresma
Arshavin

by **flamingpoe** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:52 pm

agreed redman from wales reina is alright he isn't the worst of the century , but neither the best, but he is deffianately not needed to be replaced, it is more wing and defenders we need so that we can play babel more upfront with torres, also crouchy/kuyt could fit into that space behind them to the ball through for their devastating pace
personally i would be aiming for a replacement for our left wing mid, right wing mid, leftback and right back.
safe to maypax sorry i was a :censored:

this time last year!
cool peace out!!!

by **Owzat** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:16 pm

flamingpoe wrote:agreed redman from wales reina is alright he isn't the worst of the century , but neither the best, but he is deffianately not needed to be replaced, it is more wing and defenders we need so that we can play babel more upfront with torres, also crouchy/kuyt could fit into that space behind them to the ball through for their devastating pace
personally i would be aiming for a replacement for our left wing mid, right wing mid, leftback and right back.
safe to maypax sorry i was a this time last year!
cool peace out!!!

Rafa is worrying me, he addresses areas that don't need addressing and doesn't do enough to fix the problem areas.

GK - good enough, maybe not top notch but one of the better keepers in this league

RB - decent but could be better, not that urgent to attend but if we get a good RB in the summer I won't complain

LB - been a longstanding problem, it's about time it was resolved. That Riise is still here and getting games four years into Rafa's tenure is just criminal negligence

CBs - more than enough quality - and with Sami as fourth choice. certainly an area we shouldn't need another signing in

RM - if Pennant is the answer then I can't imagine what the question is - or how stupid! Kuyt has done a sturdy job, but we need quality on the flanks

LM - as with the RM and LB, long time problem and we need quality. Babel may or may not offer a long term solution, has there even been a half decent temporary solution since Barnes?

CMs - more than enough already thanks, no need for Barry to turn his back on the villa. We've had Gerrard and Alonso as a pair for four seasons, we've added Macherano and had how many other players come, go or simply be there in the past four years?

CFs - after four years we now have a quality striker worthy of naming alongside the greats, it has only taken four years to find ONE striker worthy of wearing the shirt. My biggest fear is if we do offload Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin that we'll sign another trio like Crouch, Kuyt, Voronin, Bellamy or Morientes to replace them.

But the most disappointing thing for me is I've heard a number of names linked with us and not one of them makes me think we'll be making the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd stand up and take notice. They must have with the signing of Torres and Mascherano, but they can't be quaking in their boots at the prospect of us signing Degen or Barry even.................... Will we be looking in awe at their signings or vice versa?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:07 pm

why people moan about arsenal, united or chelsea wanting a player is beyond me.

did united, arsenal and chelsea want agger? reina? alonso? skrtel?
did we want henry? viera? petit? when arsenal signed them?

so what if the other top clubs don't want a player we're after, does that automatically make the player not good enough? United and Chelsea both turned down Torres, so going on the logic the top sides didn't want him, we shouldn't of gone near him eh? Chelsea turned down Torres and got Shevchenko. United turned down Torres and got Forlan. What a joke of an arguement, other top sides won't be fearing the likes of Barry and Degen. I won't be fearing Nani, Fletcher, O'Shea, Malouda, Mikel, A.Cole, Beletti, Shevchenko, Rosicky, Song, Denilson.

So if a top side isn't interested in them, that doesn't mean their not good enough, alls it means is that the other top sides don't think he's the answer. Like I've already said United and Chelsea didn't think Torres was the answer. Any player can be turned down by a big club who turns out to be world class, so for people to say "other sides above us don't want him then why do we?" is pathetic.

by **Rush Job** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:08 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:why people moan about arsenal, united or chelsea wanting a player is beyond me.

did united, arsenal and chelsea want agger? reina? alonso? skrtel?
did we want henry? viera? petit? when arsenal signed them?

so what if the other top clubs don't want a player we're after, does that automatically make the player not good enough? United and Chelsea both turned down Torres, so going on the logic the top sides didn't want him, we shouldn't of gone near him eh? Chelsea turned down Torres and got Shevchenko. United turned down Torres and got Forlan. What a joke of an arguement, other top sides won't be fearing the likes of Barry and Degen. I won't be fearing Nani, Fletcher, O'Shea, Malouda, Mikel, A.Cole, Beletti, Shevchenko, Rosicky, Song, Denilson.

So if a top side isn't interested in them, that doesn't mean their not good enough, alls it means is that the other top sides don't think he's the answer. Like I've already said United and Chelsea didn't think Torres was the answer. Any player can be turned down by a big club who turns out to be world class, so for people to say "other sides above us don't want him then why do we?" is pathetic.

Said lad.

by **Rush Job** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:33 am

heimdall wrote:I'd like to see a better keeper becuase seriosuly I don't actually rate Reina as highly as most of you as a shot stopper if you compare him to Cech or Van der Sar
Also a new right and left defender, plus right and left wingers and another striker with Babel moved to a strikers position for next season.
If we get all of those things and I'm talking about quality here then we have a chance, the priority though has to be too great wingers who can come forwards and maybe score a few bloody goals!

Needs to watch his near post because he at times can get beat from angle`s that he should be making safe, in most regards a top quality keeper but it seems to be the mental side that can let him down like at utd it was like James all over again.
Cech is still the best in the league for me, as we seen in the semi, if he can shut out the scum as well as he did us theyve got a chance but id have to put Reina at number 2, hopefully closing the gap.

by **Owzat** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:58 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:why people moan about arsenal, united or chelsea wanting a player is beyond me.

did united, arsenal and chelsea want agger? reina? alonso? skrtel?
did we want henry? viera? petit? when arsenal signed them?

so what if the other top clubs don't want a player we're after, does that automatically make the player not good enough? United and Chelsea both turned down Torres, so going on the logic the top sides didn't want him, we shouldn't of gone near him eh? Chelsea turned down Torres and got Shevchenko. United turned down Torres and got Forlan. What a joke of an arguement, other top sides won't be fearing the likes of Barry and Degen. I won't be fearing Nani, Fletcher, O'Shea, Malouda, Mikel, A.Cole, Beletti, Shevchenko, Rosicky, Song, Denilson.

So if a top side isn't interested in them, that doesn't mean their not good enough, alls it means is that the other top sides don't think he's the answer. Like I've already said United and Chelsea didn't think Torres was the answer. Any player can be turned down by a big club who turns out to be world class, so for people to say "other sides above us don't want him then why do we?" is pathetic.

You've actually countered your own pathetic argument, Torres was turned down by two clubs and people on here on the relevant thread voted him top signing of the summer. They probably didn't need Mascherano given the mancs had Carrick and were signing Hargreaves and Chelsea have Makelele, Mikel and one or two others who can hold in midfield.

And as usual you've twisted/taken out of context what I said. Did I say they weren't good enough? They are of questionable quality, not every club is going to need the same players so there will be some that a top club don't want or chase, that doesn't mean they don't stand up and take notice. I'm talking about QUALITY, and the sign of quality is usually other clubs want the player.

But of course you must be right, all these 'quality' players that the mancs and Chelsea didn't want that have come and gone already. Noone said they don't make mistakes in the transfer market, but they can't sign everyone. They do tend to be interested in top quality or young players, if we sign Degen and Barry next season then the mancs and Chelsea will not care one bit. Even though we signed Torres and Mascherano this season, the wiser among us are still concerned at how well Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani are working out.

Every club will sign relative unknowns that other clubs don't take much interest in, it is rather a large market to shop in. And did we not want Vidic? It is all very well giving a few examples of who we didn't want, but the fact is we still looked in awe at them. And I doubt the mancs and other top clubs are that bothered that we sidned Agger, Reina, Alonso or Skrtel, they may be gods to you and others like you, but they're no Ronaldo, Henry, Vieira, Rooney etc Good players, yes. Players that INDIVIDUALLY will make the difference, no.

by **bunglemark2** » Wed May 07, 2008 8:30 am

Hear, hear Owzat....to a point. If you offered me Vidic, I'd snap the hand off you; ditto for Nani, dare I even mention it - Ronaldo; Ballack (I've always thought he was one of the best players in Europe, but getting on in years now...); Ashley Cole (even though he's a complete c**t !); Hleb; Fabregas....
Truth be told, I saw Skrtel plating in the Euro qualifiers and didn't rate him at all, so I was completely amazed that Rafa plumped for him. At the time, I thought he was taking a punt, but it looks like a shrewd signing now....
But you have to take a good hard look at the squad, compare with the top two (am leaving out Arsenal here 'cos Wenger is just unique in his ability to spot young talent), and you have to say.....they pretty much don't compare, with the odd exception.
One thing I'll be watching though like a hawk, is how El Nino gets on next season when the opposition is wide to his skills......

by **JC_81** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:United and Chelsea both turned down Torres

More bullsh.it

When did United and Chelsea turn down Torres? Ferguson himself has said that United chased Torres for years but kept getting knocked back as he didn't want to leave Spain. They dropped their interest thinking it was wasted effort, luckily Benitez got in at the right time when Torres was ready for a move.

The only other club that made a concrete offer for Torres last summer was Inter, and he turned them down to join us. Chelsea and United weren't even in the equation. And it's not as if Athletico were pimping Torres around Europe offering him to clubs, so Chelsea and United wouldn't have had the opportunity to 'turn Torres down'.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:16 pm

One thing I will say about Torres, is that I think he will need more help next season if he is to be equally as successful as this year. Against Chelsea in the away leg I noticed time after time Torres got into excellent positions, where the right pass would have given him a good chance of getting a shot in on goal, and time after time either the pass was poorly executed or the player never even saw the opportunity that Torres had created with his positioning.

We need players that can not only see the pass is on but with the necessary ability to make the pass.

by **clarke90** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:36 pm

GK Riena

Rb Rafiniha 8-10 mil
Lb Abidal 6-8 mil
Cb Carra + Skertl

Cm Mashcerano + Alonso

Rm Bently 12-15 mil
Lm Babel

Acm Gerrard

FW Torres

Subs-Carson
Agger
Lucas
Santa Cruz 8 mil
Yossi
Spent 41 mil at most but we can easily raise that much with player sales

by **Trewyn** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:42 pm

To compete with the top 4 currently, you really can't gamble too much on mediocre players. If we plan mediocre, we will always remain mediocre. Arguments on whether Rafa's targets are mediocre aside, I really think the bottomline is our poor state of finances under the Yanks and poor marketing of the club.

Let's look at the marketing of the club first. There are Manure shops all around the world and its so easy to get Manure merchandise. I'm 110% sure that worldwide, Liverpool fans are the most passionate and given an opportunity, we will spend heaps if there are Liverpool merchandise to be bought. I visited Anfield once and spent 400 pounds on merchandise but not every fan can make the trip to Anfield. Where I'm at, there's even a red devils bar, officially licensed by Manure. Now the point to note is that there was a survey done and Liverpool fans outnumber Manure fans.

Throw in an owner who has the business sense, financial ability of a juggernaut and a passion for our club, and here's what Rafa should hear...

"Rafa, feel free to buy ANY player you want."

This could have actually happened during the honeymoon period when the Yanks first took over our club because Rafa for once actually looked for a star and decided on Torres. BUT when they realised that they didn't understand the system and felt that they were in over their heads + US financial crisis, their c0cks shrank back into their body and they became pussies.

Now, we are back to square one back to when Moores was still in charge, in fact worse! Our boardroom is in a mess and if you think it ain't affecting our club, it is. We have no financial guts to aim higher in terms of players.

Buying top players can mean better odds that the player will succeed for the club and it can also be as a psychological strategy. Mind you, you don't need to buy every top player out there like Real Madrid or AC Milan, just 1 or 2 really stellar ones will achieve the goal.

I'm sure when we bought Torres, Ferguson et al were thinking "Hmm... this could be a slight problem" But now, with the targets (no disrespect to them) we have, Ferguson must be screaming in joy "hahaha 19 titles here I come!!"

Anyways, here's my ideal 11 inclusive of squad players.

GK - Reina

LB - Lahm
RB - Skrtel
CB - Agger
CB - Carra

DM - Masch
LM - Babel
RM - Quaresma
CM - Alonso

AM - Gerrard
ST - Torres

This will be the main formation 4-5-1 which seems like the most successful for us. If the occasion needs it, we can always go for a traditional 4-4-2 with Crouch replacing Alonso and Gerrard playing CM. Our back 4 can be fluid enough to shift around with Arbeloa and Aurelio but the most important thing we should do for our back 4 is to give chances for Skrtel and Agger to form an understanding so that they will be our new Hyppia/Carra combo.

The midfield is fluid also with Benayoun and Pennant available and capable to replace our 2 fantastic wingers Quaresma/Babel if they get tired or injured.

Forwards, we keep Crouch and Kuyt with Torres. Crouch coming in for a 4-4-2 will bring an extra dimension in attacking with Kuyt sorry to say, being there to support if any inclusive of wingers are injured (touch wood).

An extremely feasible plan. Lahm will cost 10m, Quaresma will cost ard 20-25m. Total spent will only be ard 35m at most. We really shouldn't be buying anymore squad players as we can easily draw them from our youth team who have proven themselves lately.

There's only one thing which Hicks got right. We're Liverpool FC, if we want 'Snoogy dog', we will get him/it regardless.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 07, 2008 1:45 pm

Tommy Smith: Wide men are needed to fire title challenge
May 7 2008 by Tommy Smith, Liverpool Echo

THE ownership battle, the need to improve the squad, the importance of a trophy next season - it's going to be a more interesting summer than normal at Anfield.

But, inevitably, the strengthening of the team in a bid to match the likes of Manchester United and Chelsea and mount a serious title challenge will be Rafa Benitez’s number one priority.

The gap may have closed a little between the Reds and top spot, compared to other seasons, but the difference once again has been the results against their big rivals.

I went to see the game at Old Trafford and, at best, you could describe Liverpool’s performance as “awful”. Results must improve next season against United, Chelsea and Arsenal if the long-awaited title challenge is to materialise.

The spine of the team has quality – Pepe Reina, Jamie Carragher, Martin Skrtel, Daniel Agger, Sami Hyypia, Steven Gerrard, Javier Mascherano and Fernando Torres.

But we still lack the necessary class at full-back, wide players with the ability to run defences ragged and produce telling crosses, and a world class partner for Torres.

In effect, between three and five new players with the pedigree to be able to go straight into the team.

Too much of the burden in midfield has been placed on Steven Gerrard this season. Not only has the skipper been action man around the pitch, but he has also provided the goals to back up Torres’ superb haul. But he can’t do it all, and Benitez will be aware of that.

It looks likely that Peter Crouch, John Arne Riise and Jermaine Pennant will be on their way, and Xabi Alonso could join them. Without doubt his form has suffered over the past two seasons and his influence on matches is more and more diluted.

Because of the lack of quality down the wings and service to him, Torres has had to work far harder than most other Premier League strikers to get his goals. On many occasions, it has been his sheer determination and class finishing that has produced something out of nothing.

It’s the second season the Reds have been trophy-less and the major disappointments have to be our indifferent league form in the middle of the season and our exit from the FA Cup.

The Chelsea result last week was a major blow, too, because I was confident the Reds would make it to Moscow. But all these setbacks must provide a renewed determination to create a team that can rival the others.

The one match that really stands out for me was the epic second leg against the Gunners at Anfield. That had everything – goals, drama and, above all, the win that must become a norm against their like.

Benitez will be frustrated some of his players haven’t measured up, but he will hopefully put that right with his summer additions.

Sadly, the ownership crisis casts a shadow over our great club. The Americans may understand money but they don’t understand football, and the way affairs have been conducted in the glare of publicity has been disgraceful.

I just wish Tom Hicks and George Gillett would accept that the whole affair has been damaging to Liverpool FC and work out a solution that could get the club out of this sorry mess.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpo....0873329

by **The Manhattan Project** » Wed May 07, 2008 1:51 pm

We need fast players to bomb down the flanks of the pitch and whip some crosses across the six yard box, so the beautiful El Nino can simply direct the ball into the goal with his beautiful forehead.

Liverpool FC Forum

Next season's ideal eleven - What would be your realistic 11?

Who is online