Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Thu May 01, 2008 8:50 am

4th in the league, poor domestic cup runs and a good CL run. Overall its a poor season.

by **tubby** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:04 am

peewee wrote:not to go into a full breakdown but i fail to see how we have improved in the past four years

4th place and no trophies is not where i expected us to be after his 4 seasons in charge, and lets be honest about this, this is not down to the owners

Yeah I have to say im with you on that one. We have shown that we are again no closer to the league than when Rafa took over. The only difference is that this season we have been enjoying the fact that we have Torres scoring so much but in all honesty thats wasted if we are not using those goals to challange for the league and European Cup. The only reason we were able to come this far is becasue we are always out of the legue months into it. Its not good enough.

4th place is not good enough. Players like Stevie and Jamie are not getting any younger and I really want to see them lift the premiership but unless we bring in more top class players that will never happen.

by **metalhead** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:43 am

Average season, the point tally in the league and the CL run made it average this season.

by **lakes10** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 am

Our season

We started out looking good and then bad, then we looked like we had given up.

then we looked good again.

we found our team them lost our team.
we mixed our team and could not find our team.

the we found our team

We looked like we could win the prem but them looked like we was going out of the CL.
then we looked like we was not going to be in the CL next year but win the CL this year.

right now we are out of the CL but in it next year.

we had good owners that turned out bad and a manager that did not know when to shut up, we looked like we was going to have a new manager and then we looked like we was going to be sold again.

Our season.....thank god its over.

by **bigmick** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:12 am

Stating the obvious a bit but whether or not you consider it a good/bad season largely depends on what your aspirations for the club are. If you think getting to the Champions league semi's and finishing fourth in the League is about as good as we can hope for at the moment then it's been up to scratch, if you set your sights higher for this season just gone, then it's been below par.

Looking at the two achievements in isolation (and for the purposes of this thread we'll conveniently forget about the other two cups) and starting with the Champions League. Now I've been going on for quite a while now about how it's a fairly easy progression through to the quarters at least for the English clubs. If you subscribe to that theory then at least we can look forward to another good run next year as well, (which we can, it'll be quarters at least). The two finalists have really only beaten one decent team each to get there so you could argue they've been a bit lucky with the Draw. We on the other hand beat one decent team to get to the semis and one other team which was better than any of the "other" teams the two finalsists played. All in all though, while reaching the semi's is very exciting and all, and a decent effort in itself, when next year three out of the four semi finalists are once again English clubs it'll begin to be more widely accepted that if you finish in the top four in the Premiership, you almost have a right of passage.

My minimum standard for the club would be to qualify and then to get out of the group and into the last sixteen. We've done better than that so as far as Europe goes, it's a decent effort for me no more no less.

In the League, the minimum standard for me given our team would be that we at some stage, even if only fleetingly get ourselves involved in the title race. That we once again have failed to do so is a bit of an indightment to be honest of the methodology used in our campaign. We really should be getting a lot closer than we are, and I'm afraid I can't get excited about the fact we've finally managed to kill off the challenge of Everton, Portsmouth and Aston Villa for fourth.

In the league, for me it has been a desperately disappointing season. Despite having bought quite possibly the best striker in the league, and already having the best central midfielder in the league, probably the best holding midfielder and possibly the best goalkeeper, we still can't land a blow on the leaders.

As I put our woes down largely to the "styling" for the first two thirds of the season, and as the manager save for the odd abheration seems to have "seen the light" I'm hopeful that next season we can get serious. Those who think either that rotation is nothing to do with it, or that the manager actually hasn't seen the light at all can dream up another reason of their own which will explain how we're going to bridge the gap, but I'll stick to mine.

If we go into next season with the same selection theories we have used for the past four seasons and are once again out of the league title race before Christmas (which I believe would be an inevitable result of another attempt at "Rafa style") then I would be advocating a change of manager at the earliest opportunity. Thankfully though I don't think that will happen. I do think the manager has found a willingness to experiment with more traditional methods, and as a result I predict we will be in the top two next season, no more than six points behind the eventual winners (Man Utd again).

There is ultimately only going to be one team which can stop them passing our record and leaving it trailing in their all conquering wake and it's going to have to be us, so best we get on with it and sharpish.

by **GRAHAM01** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:20 am

as a whole a very disappointing season!!

another great run in the cup was are only saving grace, but we are just not cutting it in the league, the players needed for that to happen have to come in the summer, not just squad players but stars that are able to help the stars we have now stevie,torres,carra,mash,pepe

if we do not get players in that are able to win matches then we will be here again this time next year saying the very same things, i for one do not want to be doing that i'm hoping rafa ( if he stays ) gets the right players needed

anyway heres hoping

by **red_guy** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:27 am

Yup, we should get the right players but do we have enough money? Pray to God, we do have 'enough' money for next season and i hope we're interested in players like Villa and bid for him soon...

by **GRAHAM01** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:38 am

bigmick wrote:Stating the obvious a bit but whether or not you consider it a good/bad season largely depends on what your aspirations for the club are. If you think getting to the Champions league semi's and finishing fourth in the League is about as good as we can hope for at the moment then it's been up to scratch, if you set your sights higher for this season just gone, then it's been below par.

Looking at the two achievements in isolation (and for the purposes of this thread we'll conveniently forget about the other two cups) and starting with the Champions League. Now I've been going on for quite a while now about how it's a fairly easy progression through to the quarters at least for the English clubs. If you subscribe to that theory then at least we can look forward to another good run next year as well, (which we can, it'll be quarters at least). The two finalists have really only beaten one decent team each to get there so you could argue they've been a bit lucky with the Draw. We on the other hand beat one decent team to get to the semis and one other team which was better than any of the "other" teams the two finalsists played. All in all though, while reaching the semi's is very exciting and all, and a decent effort in itself, when next year three out of the four semi finalists are once again English clubs it'll begin to be more widely accepted that if you finish in the top four in the Premiership, you almost have a right of passage.

My minimum standard for the club would be to qualify and then to get out of the group and into the last sixteen. We've done better than that so as far as Europe goes, it's a decent effort for me no more no less.

In the League, the minimum standard for me given our team would be that we at some stage, even if only fleetingly get ourselves involved in the title race. That we once again have failed to do so is a bit of an indightment to be honest of the methodology used in our campaign. We really should be getting a lot closer than we are, and I'm afraid I can't get excited about the fact we've finally managed to kill off the challenge of Everton, Portsmouth and Aston Villa for fourth.

In the league, for me it has been a desperately disappointing season. Despite having bought quite possibly the best striker in the league, and already having the best central midfielder in the league, probably the best holding midfielder and possibly the best goalkeeper, we still can't land a blow on the leaders.

As I put our woes down largely to the "styling" for the first two thirds of the season, and as the manager save for the odd abheration seems to have "seen the light" I'm hopeful that next season we can get serious. Those who think either that rotation is nothing to do with it, or that the manager actually hasn't seen the light at all can dream up another reason of their own which will explain how we're going to bridge the gap, but I'll stick to mine.

If we go into next season with the same selection theories we have used for the past four seasons and are once again out of the league title race before Christmas (which I believe would be an inevitable result of another attempt at "Rafa style") then I would be advocating a change of manager at the earliest opportunity. Thankfully though I don't think that will happen. I do think the manager has found a willingness to experiment with more traditional methods, and as a result I predict we will be in the top two next season, no more than six points behind the eventual winners (Man Utd again).

There is ultimately only going to be one team which can stop them passing our record and leaving it trailing in their all conquering wake and it's going to have to be us, so best we get on with it and sharpish.

good post mick i like your thinking

as i said before not a great season in my eyes i had high hopes of a huge challange this season but due to many things rotation, below liverpool standard players we have fallen behind after only half the season was played

my sights for next year are a top 2 finish and be pushing who ever is there with us ( that's just me ) others may think we are not good enough but that is what i would like to see happen

yes i think another run in the champ league will happen if we get the rub of the green we could be looking at another semi?? who knows but i would like us to pay more attention on the league and not be looking at ch/l as are only silverware avilable

so bring on the summer where we will find out who comes in and who goes out and then bring on the new season and new hope

by **GRAHAM01** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:46 am

red_guy wrote:Yup, we should get the right players but do we have enough money? Pray to God, we do have 'enough' money for next season and i hope we're interested in players like Villa and bid for him soon...

yes i agree he is the type of player we should be looking at

i won't put a list of players i would like to see there is no point, but just that we should be pulling in the big names

as for the money side i do think if dic take over we will get a tidy sum to use if it's bill and ben then i think we could be looking at £25 to £30 mil plus what ever we make from saleing on the dead wood, i also think alonso will be going ( i don't think he is dead wood just that he will go ) so in all we could be looking at £50+ which i think should go on 3 top notch players who would make a difference not 6 or 7 squad players
who will not make us any better

by **Seano Kop** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:04 am

Disapointed with the overall result of the season (no trophys and all) but happy with the way we have ended it and hope we can continue where we left off next season.

by **red_guy** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:05 am

GRAHAM01 wrote:
red_guy wrote:Yup, we should get the right players but do we have enough money? Pray to God, we do have 'enough' money for next season and i hope we're interested in players like Villa and bid for him soon...

yes i agree he is the type of player we should be looking at

i won't put a list of players i would like to see there is no point, but just that we should be pulling in the big names

as for the money side i do think if dic take over we will get a tidy sum to use if it's bill and ben then i think we could be looking at £25 to £30 mil plus what ever we make from saleing on the dead wood, i also think alonso will be going ( i don't think he is dead wood just that he will go ) so in all we could be looking at £50+ which i think should go on 3 top notch players who would make a difference not 6 or 7 squad players
who will not make us any better

Definitely. Hope Dic will come sooner rather than later because we need to get few class players in a different position in order for us to challenge for the title and level with the top 3 teams in the league.

by **Kukilon** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:16 am

Descent season to be honest. We deffinately need new owners.

by **GRAHAM01** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:20 am

red_guy wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:
red_guy wrote:Yup, we should get the right players but do we have enough money? Pray to God, we do have 'enough' money for next season and i hope we're interested in players like Villa and bid for him soon...

yes i agree he is the type of player we should be looking at

i won't put a list of players i would like to see there is no point, but just that we should be pulling in the big names

as for the money side i do think if dic take over we will get a tidy sum to use if it's bill and ben then i think we could be looking at £25 to £30 mil plus what ever we make from saleing on the dead wood, i also think alonso will be going ( i don't think he is dead wood just that he will go ) so in all we could be looking at £50+ which i think should go on 3 top notch players who would make a difference not 6 or 7 squad players
who will not make us any better

Definitely. Hope Dic will come sooner rather than later because we need to get few class players in a different position in order for us to challenge for the title and level with the top 3 teams in the league.

i would like to see 4 top players come really, a left back, 2 wingers and a striker we could play 2 ways then 4-4-2 or the way we have been, but i don't think we need 2 holding midfielders when we play we could also play something like this
--pepe--

--arb-- --carra-- --skert-- --?--

--mash--

--?-- --gerrard-- --?--

--?--

--torres--

that as i main team (who ever the ? are) and then you have the likes of agger,aralio,babal,lucus,crouch who could sub and slot in for injuries plus a few other that we have and we have a few youngsters that could be pushing through aswell

but we will just have to wait and see

by **lakes10** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:27 am

Is Gerrard that indispensable?? the guy is not going to be about for ever, and he also might leave.

I know its hard to think of a Liverpool team witout him but we sid the same about Owen.

If we buy a player it should be a stand in for him.

If we buy loads of players then we need to rebuild.....that means mucking about with the team for 14 weeks before the manager understands what his best team is.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:29 am

What this thread is short of is a Rose Tinted glasses look at the season. TBH i don't know how Tompkins manages to make even the most damning of facts seem almost acceptable and and positive. I suppose thats why he gets paid for his posts and we just get abuse

TOMKINS: SILVER LININGS ABOUND
Paul Tomkins 01 May 2008
Everything in life has a silver lining. Even the worst things imaginable, providing they are survived, can make you stronger, or more humble, or more appreciative.

Liverpool may end the season empty-handed, but have shown the guts and determination to try and rescue lost causes, right from the fourth game of the group stage onwards when the most remarkable escape act was undertaken. And, of course, there's been no little quality too. Goals have been in plentiful supply, and it's been a memorable campaign that was alive until the 120th minute of the semi-final second-leg.

In football, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Character is borne from setbacks, whether deserved or not. As with last year, I don't think a potential Champions League Final against Manchester United was what this relatively young team needed right now in terms of its development. I know a lot of fans feel the same, but of course, no Red wanted anything other than a Liverpool win once the semi-final kicked off.

It's not that I think United's recent record against Liverpool, and the fact that they're ahead in terms of team development, made them massive favourites; for a game like that it had to be 50-50.

After all, Benítez had won the only cup game against United, back in 2006, and Liverpool have a better psychological air in the Champions League. But it would have been too big a game –– the biggest club game Europe has ever seen; I said the same a year ago when the possibility was on the horizon. Liverpool have improved since then, but United are still the older, more experienced and more expensively-assembled side.

It would have been 50-50 odds, but like in a game of Russian roulette with three bullets in six chambers –– an especially apt metaphor, given the location of the final. United fans weren't keen on the idea either, but at least they had the league title in the bag as something to fall back on.

They could bounce back more easily from losing the final, and as things stand, Liverpool, I feel, can bounce back more easily from losing the semi-final than had defeat occurred in Russia. But it wasn't to be.

The law of averages suggested Chelsea had to win a semi-final against Liverpool sooner or later. The first goal is always crucial, and that it was offside in the build-up is irritating but par for the course of rubbish decisions when Liverpool play Chelsea. Even the one decision Chelsea feel they were cheated out of, in 2005, saved them from conceding a penalty and having Cech sent off. (The ref that night seems to be the only person outside of Liverpool fans who acknowledges this.)

The two decisions involving Sami Hyypia summed up Liverpool's luck with officials in games against Chelsea –– the Finn gave away a blatant penalty (no arguments there) but won an equally blatant one, too. Or rather, he would have had the referee not bottled it, putting his whistle to his lips but mysteriously changing his mind.

At least the officials rightly struck off Essien's goal, with a player jumping up and down in front of Reina as one of four offside players. If these type of offences aren't offside, as with the one at the weekend at Birmingham, then the law is an absolute joke.

Liverpool also had the worse luck with injuries, losing defenders in both games. So everything went against the Reds.

I have to say that didn't agree with Rafa's tactic of singling out Drogba for criticism, even though I totally agreed with the sentiment over the way such a powerful player can be strong when he wants to be, but when the defenders stand up to him with equal force, as they have to, he crumples like an aneamic anorexic. But Drogba would have been fired up for this one either way.

So overall I'm disappointed –– but not disheartened; far from it. I look for the positives, the signs of progress, as a matter of course. There's been plenty this season; alas, other teams are progressing too, and you can't do anything about that. I'm sure Rafa would love to be able to buy players like Anelka for £15m in the middle of the season, just to use them from the bench. But how many managers have such a luxury?

This season Liverpool have scored far more goals than in recent years (116 so far), but on the whole not without sacrificing defensive stability. Progress. Six players have got into double figures, and I can't recall the last time that happened. Again, progress. The overall balance of the side is very strong, and as with last summer the right additions can take the team up another level; unlike last summer, the project is that bit nearer completion. But there's still room for improvement in a couple of positions, and in the overall depth of the squad.

What Benítez has done is create a side that never says die; this team has come from behind to win key games ever since he arrived –– Olympiacos, Luton, AC Milan, and most recently, Arsenal –– and defensive or one-dimensional teams don't do that. It gave every last ounce of effort at Stamford Bridge, and over the two games Petr Cech had the more meaningful saves to make.

Unfortunately, one newspaper piece this morning read: "After four seasons under Benítez Liverpool are no closer to Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal in the league than they were in 2004 when Gérard Houllier left Anfield."

I respect the author, having known him a few years ago, but this is utter tripe, as was the suggestion that Benítez is still living off Istanbul. The gap was 30 points in 2004, and 21 points last season. Currently it's down to 11 points. How is that being 'no closer' to the other three big clubs? I'm no mathematician, but even I can spot a closing gap. Over the past three seasons, Liverpool have accrued more league points than Arsenal, lest we forget.

Meanwhile, the gap to fifth has been extended, with three good away results recently secured with a 'squad' team. Again, more signs of progress.

As a result, Liverpool are comfortably established within the top four, something that wasn't the case four/five years ago. But the challenge to win the title remains an immense one, given that the other three teams are also especially strong, particularly the top two with their far greater riches.

The Reds didn't lose to either Chelsea or Arsenal in the league, or to either London side over 90 minutes in four Champions League games (defeat to Chelsea came in extra-time, and in the League Cup which is now a virtual reserves competition). That's eight meaningful games of parity between Liverpool and two clubs who were miles ahead when Benítez arrived. Manchester United still have the upper hand in head-to-heads, but a bit more luck for Liverpool at Anfield and that will deservedly change.

I've mentioned the success of the Reds' youth and reserve teams a few times lately, but that's all part of the overall improvement; it took both Ferguson and Wenger years to get their systems right before players started filtering through to the first team, so Benítez and his staff have done an excellent job in this respect. I'd expect journalists to pay some kind of attention to all the work a manager does, particularly laying foundations.

Six of this season's signings –– Torres, Babel, Benayoun, Skrtel, Lucas, and the now permanently-signed Mascherano –– have all added new dimensions, with each looking a very astute buy; the average age of that sextet is just 23. Voronin and Leto haven't quite worked out as yet, for a number of reasons including injury, but neither is a bad player. Also, a number of teenagers have featured in the first team in the league this season.

And all this during another European season that was very, very good, and fell just a fraction short of being excellent. But it's more experience to bank, more victories against top sides on the way to almost making a third final in four seasons.

Regardless of who wins this year's final, no team in Europe has a better Champions League record than the Liverpool manager in Benítez's four years –– the Reds are joint-best with AC Milan, who have also won one of two finals, reached one further semi-final, and fallen at the last-16 stage since Benítez took charge.

If that's not progress for a club ailing in the UEFA Cup in 2003/04, I am utterly at a loss to suggest what is.

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