The dirk kuyt debate....is he good enough?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Kharhaz » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:53 am

bigmick wrote:In that case mate I've got a great shot. I can blast it with best of 'em but the goals always in the wrong place :D :D

Sorry Kharhaz mate I couldn't resist it :D

:D  Yeah im digging for reasons ! hes a good grafter....errr....minimum wage? I'll look into that !
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Postby Thingy » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:14 am

I really dont get all this praise for Kuyt. Yes he works hard. What else? Alonso and Gerrard, 2 of our worser performers last night, ran and worked harder than he did, fact. Why arent they gettin the credit Kuyt is? Really if anyone thinks hes good enough for us then I really dont agree. Were not exactly setting our standards high are we? I admire his attitude, thats it. Hes really slow, cant pass well, dosent create or score enough, his first touch is shocking. I know alot of you respect him for how hard he works and I do too, im just saying its way over the top. Everytime I see him with the ball i cringe. Hes a shocking footballer. People will say im goin over the top and all that but imo its true. We need better players than him if were gunna win the league.



Plus hes not exactly the nicest looking man alive :D
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:15 am

I would suggest Kuyt is nearer to Jimmy Case in style than Ray Kennedy. Unfortunately unlike Case, Kuyt has a poor first touch, but he has done extremely well the last few games. Having said that if Torres had been unmarked as Kuyt was on numerous occasions last night I think he would have made more of the chances. (While in part you have to praise Kuyt for finding space, the other part of me thinks the reason he does find space is partly due to the lack of pace and goal threat he offers.)

I honestly don't think he is good enough for us long term, but would possibly make a good squad player for next season.
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Postby Kharhaz » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:29 am

Thingy wrote:I really dont get all this praise for Kuyt.

Well, heres why I like him. He works hard, every match. He is no Torres, no gerrard, hes more akin to carragher. He works for his money. His attitude is, them people in the stands have paid to see us play, time to repay them.

Thats on the pitch.

Off the pitch. He gets his wages and gives his sponsorship money, his bonuses, whatever extras to charity.

He is no big time charlie. He is no player picked because he can cross a ball (beckham) he is no player that scores goals (lampard) he is no player that makes things happen with a click of a thumb (gerrard). He is simply a player that works hard constantly to ensure the team does well. He is picked because constantly, even when the team havent performed, you can bet that kuyt has worked hard for his wage.

Thats why I like him.
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Postby Thingy » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:31 am

Kharhaz mate I think the same as ive said. His attitude is admireable, he loves the club and the fans. Its just as a footballer for me, he just isnt good enough.
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Postby Kharhaz » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:42 am

Thingy wrote:Kharhaz mate I think the same as ive said. His attitude is admireable, he loves the club and the fans. Its just as a footballer for me, he just isnt good enough.

He isnt the best, talent wise but for me he is never given the credit he deserves. Always the first to be blamed when we lose a game and never the first to be given the credit when we win one.
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Postby Thingy » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:45 am

Ive heard hes running the marathon on sunday, giving his bird a break :D
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Postby Toffeehater » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:20 pm

Thingy wrote:I really dont get all this praise for Kuyt. Yes he works hard. What else? Alonso and Gerrard, 2 of our worser performers last night, ran and worked harder than he did, fact. Why arent they gettin the credit Kuyt is? Really if anyone thinks hes good enough for us then I really dont agree. Were not exactly setting our standards high are we? I admire his attitude, thats it. Hes really slow, cant pass well, dosent create or score enough, his first touch is shocking. I know alot of you respect him for how hard he works and I do too, im just saying its way over the top. Everytime I see him with the ball i cringe. Hes a shocking footballer. People will say im goin over the top and all that but imo its true. We need better players than him if were gunna win the league.



Plus hes not exactly the nicest looking man alive :D

:no Worst post i have ever read

Credit is to be given where its due , he has been excellent ever since moving to the wing and the amount of criticism he has had to deal with is just bull sh!t


And i'm sure you don't look like brad pitt so don't give fecking comments abt how other people look , take a long ahrd look in the mirror
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Postby Toffeehater » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:21 pm

Kharhaz wrote:
Thingy wrote:I really dont get all this praise for Kuyt.

Well, heres why I like him. He works hard, every match. He is no Torres, no gerrard, hes more akin to carragher. He works for his money. His attitude is, them people in the stands have paid to see us play, time to repay them.

Thats on the pitch.

Off the pitch. He gets his wages and gives his sponsorship money, his bonuses, whatever extras to charity.

He is no big time charlie. He is no player picked because he can cross a ball (beckham) he is no player that scores goals (lampard) he is no player that makes things happen with a click of a thumb (gerrard). He is simply a player that works hard constantly to ensure the team does well. He is picked because constantly, even when the team havent performed, you can bet that kuyt has worked hard for his wage.

Thats why I like him.

:nod  :bowdown
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Postby LittleHobo » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:27 pm

i love kuyt because of the reasons above.

fantastic guy, a great role model and proves you can be rich and not greedy.

and in the big games he most definatley is good enough, he is always good in the big games.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:38 pm

Just going back to saint's point about Kuyt being more a Jimmy Case, I often compare Kuyt to Sammy Lee. Case was a fella who would break your legs if you said hello (on the pitch). I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times and off the pitch he's nice as pie, but I wouldn't say Kuyt is that kind of player. Case was a fantastic player, who could cross, pass, tackle and get the odd goal with that rocket of a shot he had.

Whereas Kuyt and Sammy are both players with limited ability in all honesty who'd run for a million years in cause of this club. Sammy Lee's job at Liverpool was to simply mark out the opponent's best player. His best performance of this was the 84 european cup final where he marked falco out of the game. I think Kuyt could do the same...for example if we're playing United, you tell Kuyt "wherever Ronaldo is, you be there as well. Don't give him a moments peace." Because with all honesty, Kuyt doesn't have the ability to create, so he needs to learn to play a simple pass and let someone who can cross a ball create the chances.
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Postby Bammo » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:30 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Because with all honesty, Kuyt doesn't have the ability to create, so he needs to learn to play a simple pass and let someone who can cross a ball create the chances.

And yet he's got the 2nd highest number of assists for us (5 in league) after Gerrard (11 in league). Incidentally, 4 of Kuyt's assists have come since he's been moved to the wing.

But you keep convincing yourself he's shit and talentless while you celebrate the goals he scores and creates.
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Postby puroresu » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:06 pm

Is kuyt worth what we paid for him?  No.
Is he good enough for Liverpool or any top side? No

Kuyt will be very lucky to get to Euro 2008 as he aint good enough for the dutch side.  His very limited and works v hard. but 3 league goals in a season is abysmal. Dress it up all u want but the fact still show he scored 2 pens and 1 goal hit him on the knee.  Work rate cant be the only criteria which we use to judge a player.  First touch - poor.  Pace - none.  Passing - average.  Crossing - average.  Speed of thought - poor. Finishing - average.

Lets stop with the dillusions.  Kuyt should be sold in the summer and we need to be getting in players with far more ability!!

Get him to mark ronaldo and ronaldo would run rings around him.
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:07 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Just going back to saint's point about Kuyt being more a Jimmy Case, I often compare Kuyt to Sammy Lee. Case was a fella who would break your legs if you said hello (on the pitch). I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times and off the pitch he's nice as pie, but I wouldn't say Kuyt is that kind of player. Case was a fantastic player, who could cross, pass, tackle and get the odd goal with that rocket of a shot he had.

Whereas Kuyt and Sammy are both players with limited ability in all honesty who'd run for a million years in cause of this club. Sammy Lee's job at Liverpool was to simply mark out the opponent's best player. His best performance of this was the 84 european cup final where he marked falco out of the game. I think Kuyt could do the same...for example if we're playing United, you tell Kuyt "wherever Ronaldo is, you be there as well. Don't give him a moments peace." Because with all honesty, Kuyt doesn't have the ability to create, so he needs to learn to play a simple pass and let someone who can cross a ball create the chances.

I would go along with the Sammy Lee comparison as well as the Case one John. Strangely I never liked Sammy Lee as a player (maybe because he replaced Case?) or Brian Hall for that matter. Can't really explain why........ but Kuyt is another one who's effort and work rate you have to admire but will never be a favourite player of mine. 

I watched the match again last night, and the number of times Kuyt received the ball in space but struggled to control it and move off was incredible for a premiership player. By the time he got moving the Arsenal defence had regrouped and the tackle was coming in, and thats on a night when most of us agree he had a good game.
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Postby puroresu » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:08 pm

Bammo wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Because with all honesty, Kuyt doesn't have the ability to create, so he needs to learn to play a simple pass and let someone who can cross a ball create the chances.

And yet he's got the 2nd highest number of assists for us (5 in league) after Gerrard (11 in league). Incidentally, 4 of Kuyt's assists have come since he's been moved to the wing.

But you keep convincing yourself he's shit and talentless while you celebrate the goals he scores and creates.

5 assists in the league and 3 goals.  For £10 mil + I expect better.
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