Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:57 pm

kazza wrote:I was wrong to say "painfully long" about Micks' posts, there was no need.

Kuyt while not a natural finisher has an excellent engine and attitude and I am sure many teams would want him and would pay close to what we paid. He is a coaches player and coaches are the ones choosing the team so what fans think may not be that important. His consistant workrate and positive attitude guarantee he will hit a purple patch at some point, afterall when you do things right you will get the rub of the green. I think he has had a bad year personally and professionally and I hope he turns it around. Maybe not "top four" teams but all others would play him as a starter.

Maybe if many others on the team had his workethic and attitude we would be champions. As long as a player gives 100 percent for the team he will always get my backing.

I have a feeling he will be here next year so whether or not we would get 2-3 million for him (which in my opinion is a ridiculous statement) is a mute point.

No probs fro me on the "painfully long" bit, some of them are there's no doubt about it.

As for Kuyt, much of what you have written I would agree with. He is a model pro and does give 100% in every single minute of every single game, and I totally agree with your point about "if other players had his work ethic" etc etc. Don't know about being Champions but we'd definately put up a better showing than we do somtimes that's for sure.

As for him being a coach's player, I know what you mean here and it's something which has cropped up many times over the years in football. The so called "unseen work" by the unitiated, the "people in the know" appreciate a players worth while the average fan doesn't. I remember Houllier saying much the same thing about Heskey. Almost always the concept crops up when a particular coach has overspent on a particular player, and if Rafa were to call kuyt that (and to be fair to the manager I don't actually think he's gone down that route) then this would be the case here as well in my view.

As for the transfer fee he would command, who knows? We're all just guessers at the end of the day and I've already called it hopelessly wrong on Kuyt once so who's to say my valuation is not way out? I hope you're right and that someone is prepared to pay "close to what we paid". We got five or six million in the end for Heskey who was another "coach's player" who never scored a goal (and I think Kuyt is better than him by a tramride) so you definately never know. The "2-3 million" thing though maybe a "ridiculous statement" in your eyes, but it is merely an opinion as you yourself keep saying about your own observations.

Whatever, wherever and however though, it's nice to actually talk about your football opinions for once rather than the other stuff we've been engaged in over the last few weeks. I don't want to best mates or anything, buit it'd suit me just fine if we stick to that from now on. I'll just keep the posts nice and lengthly so's you can just skip on past em.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:16 pm

Mick the comparison with Heskey is quite good I think. Both he and Kuyt scored a fair share of goals in their debut season at Anfield, then for whatever reason were both shifted out to the wings. Maybe it's the "work rate" they put in to why they're shifted out to the wings but it's an interesting comparison. I didn't mind Heskey as much as most do, I think (again like Kuyt) he was mistreated by the manager. I don't think either were or are up to the task of playing centre forward for Liverpool Football Club, but neither were really helped by their respective managers.

by **poolboyuk** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:33 am

I'd put Kuyt in the same basket at Benayoun, Pennant, and Crouch (& maybe Babel) that is good but not great. Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Ferdinand, Vidic, Anderson, etc are great players.

We simply have too many good but not great players, hence fourth or third each year. Simple!

FootballFocusOnline Blog

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:16 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:this has gone from Kuyt, to mick not posting enough, to redblood and kazza having a slanging match, to red37 being tipped as the next shakesphere, to Con being up Red's because he's a moderator (sorry con, couldn't resist it lad)

I'll go back to Mick's post about Kuyt being worth 2-3 million, I think that's a fair assumption Mick, but not for Wigan or Bolton. I just can't see Kuyt staying in England. I think he'll move back to Holland or Germany. I just don't think he's got it in him to cut it in England not even for a mickey mouse side. Also I'd rather see the lad doing well because he's ran his socks off and his attitude is as good as any at the club, so I think moving back home would be best for him and his career. European football, international football (again) and trophies, he won't get that at Bolton/Wigan. So to thank him for the works he's done at Liverpool we should look to sell him to a decent side in Holland.

In all seriousness , i think he will leave in the summer , he has done decent and well when on the wing , today was another example of a man of the match performance , no dount the rock will have something begative to say abt kuyt . I think he will get into any side apart from the top 4 , hard worker , breaks up moves , never complains and shud fetch ard 7 million at least

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:18 pm

poolboyuk wrote:I'd put Kuyt in the same basket at Benayoun, Pennant, and Crouch (& maybe Babel) that is good but not great. Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Ferdinand, Vidic, Anderson, etc are great players.

We simply have too many good but not great players, hence fourth or third each year. Simple!

FootballFocusOnline Blog

thank god u dpn't post more often , its onyl anderson's first season and he has done well in big games only , u're already judging him on that? u're clearly on something which u shud nt be on

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:43 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:this has gone from Kuyt, to mick not posting enough, to redblood and kazza having a slanging match, to red37 being tipped as the next shakesphere, to Con being up Red's because he's a moderator (sorry con, couldn't resist it lad)

I'll go back to Mick's post about Kuyt being worth 2-3 million, I think that's a fair assumption Mick, but not for Wigan or Bolton. I just can't see Kuyt staying in England. I think he'll move back to Holland or Germany. I just don't think he's got it in him to cut it in England not even for a mickey mouse side. Also I'd rather see the lad doing well because he's ran his socks off and his attitude is as good as any at the club, so I think moving back home would be best for him and his career. European football, international football (again) and trophies, he won't get that at Bolton/Wigan. So to thank him for the works he's done at Liverpool we should look to sell him to a decent side in Holland.

In all seriousness , i think he will leave in the summer , he has done decent and well when on the wing , today was another example of a man of the match performance , no dount the rock will have something begative to say abt kuyt . I think he will get into any side apart from the top 4 , hard worker , breaks up moves , never complains and shud fetch ard 7 million at least

I don't think Kuyt would get into sides going for Europe from England. I think he's a mid-table player at best. West Ham, Sunderland, Newcaslte, Boro, that sort of level and that's at best.

I'd rather flog him to Holland and 7 million is pushing it a bit mate, then again I never in a million years expected 6 million for Heskey or 8 for Sissoko.

by **oakton** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:45 pm

bavlondon wrote:Funny how when he came here everyone was practically wanki.ng over performance that season. Now all of a sudden hes not good enough.

Yes he was good last year, and "all of a sudden" he is :censored:

now. Have you been watching for the last 2 seasons at all?

by **puroresu** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:58 pm

Whoever pays £7mil for Kuyt is crazy.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:44 pm

I think if he continues to play like this for the rest of the season, then he should be kept as a back up for next season. He's a handy player and he's very useful especially in the CL. I do hope that we get someone better for his position though.

by **dawson99** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:48 pm

i think we are ALWAYS too quick to sell players off at a loss. why not keep him? hes a good player to have in the squad, that much has been proved in the last 7 games. makes absolutely no sense to sell him for 3-4 million

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:06 pm

Yet again I find certain people on here staggering. How it's one rule for one player and another for a different player.

Pennant doesn't score from right wing and is slaughtered. Kuyt doesn't scored from right wing yet he's been raved about. :laugh:

makes me laugh anyway. (that's just one example, there are more)

But as for this arguement lets keep Kuyt? :laugh:

and one for the road :laugh:

Lets keep a centre forward who doesn't score and play him on the right wing where he doesn't create. Lets keep him on the wage bill where he's picking up about 50 grand a week for running, why not just go and sign Seb Coe, he's a former world champion of long distant running. Kuyt offers us nothing but someone who can run. Everyone is raving about him after today's game, I honestly can't see why. He won the ball back a few times fair enough, then he give it away. There's no point winning the ball if you then go and give it back to the opposition straight away. He's useless and doesn't deserve to be at Liverpool.

by **dawson99** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:08 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Yet again I find certain people on here staggering. How it's one rule for one player and another for a different player.

Pennant doesn't score from right wing and is slaughtered. Kuyt doesn't scored from right wing yet he's been raved about. makes me laugh anyway. (that's just one example, there are more)

But as for this arguement lets keep Kuyt? and one for the road Lets keep a centre forward who doesn't score and play him on the right wing where he doesn't create. Lets keep him on the wage bill where he's picking up about 50 grand a week for running, why not just go and sign Seb Coe, he's a former world champion of long distant running. Kuyt offers us nothing but someone who can run. Everyone is raving about him after today's game, I honestly can't see why. He won the ball back a few times fair enough, then he give it away. There's no point winning the ball if you then go and give it back to the opposition straight away. He's useless and doesn't deserve to be at Liverpool.

Sometimes you are a fool sir :lookaround

Kuyt and Pennant are completely different players. The reason Pennant gets slated is because he is lazy and has a crappy attitude. Why sell Kuyt now for a 6 million loss to save 50k a week? That makes no sense. If you just want to buy the title and keep buying more and more players go support Cheatski.

Kuyt has done more than his fair share for the team recently. And if ALL you think Kuyt does is run, maybe you should learn a bit more about the game of football. Its not always what you do when you have the ball thats important

by **banana** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:16 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Yet again I find certain people on here staggering. How it's one rule for one player and another for a different player.

Pennant doesn't score from right wing and is slaughtered. Kuyt doesn't scored from right wing yet he's been raved about. makes me laugh anyway. (that's just one example, there are more)

But as for this arguement lets keep Kuyt? and one for the road Lets keep a centre forward who doesn't score and play him on the right wing where he doesn't create. Lets keep him on the wage bill where he's picking up about 50 grand a week for running, why not just go and sign Seb Coe, he's a former world champion of long distant running. Kuyt offers us nothing but someone who can run. Everyone is raving about him after today's game, I honestly can't see why. He won the ball back a few times fair enough, then he give it away. There's no point winning the ball if you then go and give it back to the opposition straight away. He's useless and doesn't deserve to be at Liverpool.

That was actually partly a clever post. I also see no point in having a striker that can't score on the wing where he can't create. And also tracking back and winning two or three balls in a full game don't do it for me. I also rememner Seb Coe, a brilliant middle distance athlete. He quit running in the late 80s i guess. Kuyt is useless and today was another horrible game. I think he is the slowest most clumsy striker (or winger?) I have ever seen at Anfield. And yes, I remember Riedle, Meijer, Camara etc etc.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:19 pm

one who said I wanted us to buy the league? If you had any sense you'd see that I am one of few on here who think we've already had enough money to compete and that money doesn't guarentee you a title. Players like Kuyt cost you the title.

Two, so what if Pennant and Kuyt are different players, they're both playing as a winger and people's arguement is "a winger should way in with some more goals" Kuyt isn't doing it, neither is Pennant.

Three, one of Liverpool's greatest players was Sammy Lee...why? Because he ran his heart out for the club and never complained. He man marked the opponents danger men out of games. He played right wing a lot of the time to. Rather similar to Kuyt, except one huge difference, Lee could pass to a teammate. What's the point of being on the field if when the ball comes to you, you give it away. No doubt you'll express the old ones like "Kuyt makes space for others" or "he does the running of two so Gerrard and Torres don't have to track back as far" or "he helps out the right back alot" Well congratulations Dirk Kuyt. But as soon as the ball comes to you, we're defending again. Hopefully this sentence will make sense to you "YOU CAN'T WIN A FOOTBALL MATCH IF YOU DON'T SCORE MORE GOALS THAN YOUR OPPONENT AND YOU CAN ONLY SCORE GOALS WHEN YOU HAVE THE BALL. DIRK KUYT CONSTANTLY LOSES POSSESION THEREFORE WE DON'T HAVE THE BALL, THEREFORE CANNOT SCORE AND THEREFORE CANNOT WIN MATCHES" That is why whenever we score, Kuyt has nothing to do with the build up. Even today's goal, it was a miscontrol by Kuyt that put it into Torres' path, it wasn't a pass as someone would like to think.

by **Rockthekop** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:22 pm

Kuyt was bought to score goals, not for running up and down the wing. He can't score so he should be sold. He offers nothing as an attacking threat. We won't win the league with players like Kuyt.

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