Liverpool FC Forum

by **hello_red** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:01 pm

Well they probably will get number 17 and we will just have to up our game. We are so close, we had them on the back foot in periods of that game even though we had 10 men.

Not so bad.

by **KennyisGod....still** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:19 pm

I'm still findin it hard to believe that fans who live in this country, watch british football and know british refs still feel Mascher was rite to protest. I think Big Mick's said the same as me..... Bennett has been known as Book-em-bennett for years, specially against foreign players. Whilst his bookin of Torres was strange to say the least, and ridiculous to tell the truth, what happened with Mascherano was so f.ckin obviously gonna happen Mystic Meg had a fiver on it.

Get with it and smell that coffee. We were beaten by a better :angry:

team on the day, with or without Mascherano, but the ref sure as hell made up for doin nothin in the chavs/spurs game last week. Wonder where Bennetts gonna be this weekend, whose gonna be upstaged by the tw@ in black......

Sundy was a bitch, but not the end of the season. Jus showed we still got ground to make up in the league, thats all. Lets back the team now to do everton and then look to 3 games against a dis spirited goonies side that could hopefully prolong our season to the CL semis and possibly 3rd place.

And as for the title..... nothins done yet, the scum aint clinched it..... they've gotta play the goonies and the chavs too, so maybe they wont pull another title back on us this season after all.

by **KennyisGod....still** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:30 pm

Bamaga man wrote:Gerrard - Needs more bottle in hostle stadiums ala Woodison & Old toilet.

Istanbul against Milan.......Cardiff against West ham......

Not too sure the guy bottled it there. And I'd put that Milan team on a par (at least) with fergusons knobhe@ds any day.

Your opnion, you're welcome to it and I wont try to change your mind, but SG has rescued this team single handed too many times to slag him for his performance against teams that somehow get officials 'on their side' regardless of where they play, but certainly at the theatre of queens.

As for against everton, he jus (for me anyway) tries too hard and becomes ineffective that way as opposed to hidin. Hence Rafa subbin him for some1 to 'play with their head, not their heart'.

No offence, as I say you're welcome to your opinion.

by **club_Levis** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:45 pm

s@int wrote:I think the Mascher sending off is being used as a get out of jail free card by some people to divert attention away from our getting outclassed, outplayed and totally bottling it. The mancs where already well on top and a goal up when Mascherano walked. The only thing Mascher going changed, is it gave us something to moan about besides the team.

We are further away from the mancs now than we have been in 40 years, I can't remember us EVER being so out played by the mancs as we have been the last few years at OT.

Our much vaunted midfield was played off the park by Anderson, Scholes and Carrick even before Masher was sent off.

As for the sending off ..... It was wrong, and I think the ref just lost the plot. I have thought for a while that refs are giving the benefit of the doubt to home grown players rather than the foreign imports. If Gerrard had been kicked like Torres was, there would have been a booking for a manc player, not Torres, and if it had been Carra that had approached the ref rather than Mascher he wouldn't have been booked.

From what I saw Mascher did nothing wrong apart from question a bad decision.... something players do EVERY GAME. Mascher has been sailing close to the wind for a while now (especially Inter at Anfield) so maybe its better it happen against the mancs in a competion we can't win ,rather than in Europe in a competition we still might win.

We were out thought tactically, and completely outplayed by the mancs.

Top top post. :nod

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:50 pm

redtrader74 wrote:MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate? So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture? It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well? The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:55 pm

s@int wrote:I think the Mascher sending off is being used as a get out of jail free card by some people to divert attention away from our getting outclassed, outplayed and totally bottling it. The mancs where already well on top and a goal up when Mascherano walked. The only thing Mascher going changed, is it gave us something to moan about besides the team.

I agree that we can't let the sending off overshadow the fact that we were very poor on the day. A goal down at Old Trafford given was probably not going to be overturned even with 11 men for 90+ minutes. Once again, too many top players failed to perform to anywhere close to their capabilities against the Mancs and no one was on the same wavelength. Sadly, Hicks may have been right about our mental block vs. the Mancs.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:57 pm

s@int wrote:I think the Mascher sending off is being used as a get out of jail free card by some people to divert attention away from our getting outclassed, outplayed and totally bottling it. The mancs where already well on top and a goal up when Mascherano walked. The only thing Mascher going changed, is it gave us something to moan about besides the team.

We are further away from the mancs now than we have been in 40 years, I can't remember us EVER being so out played by the mancs as we have been the last few years at OT.

Our much vaunted midfield was played off the park by Anderson, Scholes and Carrick even before Masher was sent off.

As for the sending off ..... It was wrong, and I think the ref just lost the plot. I have thought for a while that refs are giving the benefit of the doubt to home grown players rather than the foreign imports. If Gerrard had been kicked like Torres was, there would have been a booking for a manc player, not Torres, and if it had been Carra that had approached the ref rather than Mascher he wouldn't have been booked.

From what I saw Mascher did nothing wrong apart from question a bad decision.... something players do EVERY GAME. Mascher has been sailing close to the wind for a while now (especially Inter at Anfield) so maybe its better it happen against the mancs in a competion we can't win ,rather than in Europe in a competition we still might win.

We were out thought tactically, and completely outplayed by the mancs.

The last few years, (under Rafa specifically), the mancs have played the game against us like it used to be, in a Derby way, our players seem to play it like it was any other. They seem to want it more, considering recently that inferior teams have played well against them, they clearly raised their game against us, whereas we didn't. That said there was a 15 minute part of the 2nd half where even with 10 men we had them under pressure, and with our recent form had we been allowed to play with 11 there was a good chance of us still getting a result.

As for Mascherano sailing close to the wind, IMHO its a good thing, we need the passion and drive, it gets the supporters up a notch or two, and on the whole he has not been abusive or aggressive, which means to me that its calculating and cynical on his part, a good thing.

by **Judge** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Regardless of th result, there shouldve been at least a further four yellow cards that werent dished out to United players.

Bennett on the back of the ashley cole debacle, was poor in his his decision making, and the fact he was at old trafford made things worse. Out of the frying pan into the fire springs to mind.

I think a stern talking to mascherano by the ref, couldve diffused the situation more effectively in that highly charged atmoshere, and tbh, a ref of his experience shouldve shown more intelligence.

Im not saying we couldve won the game, but his sending off didnt help matters. We will never know now.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:10 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate? So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture? It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well? The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

by **Bammo** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:20 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate? So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture? It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well? The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Nothing wrong? Have you seen the footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YQSmkB5XWg

According to the laws of the game a player may be cautioned if he:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action

among other things. It's quite understandable for Bennett to feel that a player repeatedly telling him to fuck off and question his decisions constitutes dissent or unsporting behaviour.

His sending off may be harsh but there are people on here who need to learn the laws of the game. Fair enough, complain about the inconsistency (Gerrard/Ronaldo swearing, Ronaldo diving but no bookings) but don't act like Masch did nothing wrong.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:31 pm

Bammo wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate? So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture? It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well? The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Nothing wrong? Have you seen the footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YQSmkB5XWg

According to the laws of the game a player may be cautioned if he:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action

among other things. It's quite understandable for Bennett to feel that a player repeatedly telling him to fuck off and question his decisions constitutes dissent or unsporting behaviour.

His sending off may be harsh but there are people on here who need to learn the laws of the game. Fair enough, complain about the inconsistency (Gerrard/Ronaldo swearing, Ronaldo diving but no bookings) but don't act like Masch did nothing wrong.

He did not swear at the referee when he was sent off. He did nothing that was out of the ordinary, and to this day, i have not seen a player sent off or yellowed for saying ' Why? what was that for ref? why?' What he did does not constitute dissent, and did not warrant a yellow card, had it, then there would be 20 yellows in each game.

Therefore he did nothing wrong, especially in terms of the way the LAWS of the game are normally dispensed.

Watch it yourself, the card was being written before he'd said two words, and a montage of him saying Fck off during a game, cut in with pictures of the ref, does not mean it was directed at the ref, there were 11 mancs to say that to.

by **Rockthekop** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:35 pm

Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have quality all over the park and if a few players don't play well that's ok because the others step up to the plate and generally turn a poor performance into a winning result. Essentially they have many match winners. We have a lack of those in the team. Our fullbacks and wide players are very ordinary or poor, as are our strikers bar Torres. The core of the team is strong, Reina, Agger, Carra, Skrtel, Gerrard, Mash, Lucas, Alonso, Babel, Torres. The rest are not good enough, that's why we aren't competing for the title yet again.

by **Bammo** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:51 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Bammo wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate? So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture? It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well? The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Nothing wrong? Have you seen the footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YQSmkB5XWg

According to the laws of the game a player may be cautioned if he:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action

among other things. It's quite understandable for Bennett to feel that a player repeatedly telling him to fuck off and question his decisions constitutes dissent or unsporting behaviour.

His sending off may be harsh but there are people on here who need to learn the laws of the game. Fair enough, complain about the inconsistency (Gerrard/Ronaldo swearing, Ronaldo diving but no bookings) but don't act like Masch did nothing wrong.

He did not swear at the referee when he was sent off. He did nothing that was out of the ordinary, and to this day, i have not seen a player sent off or yellowed for saying ' Why? what was that for ref? why?' What he did does not constitute dissent, and did not warrant a yellow card, had it, then there would be 20 yellows in each game.

Therefore he did nothing wrong, especially in terms of the way the LAWS of the game are normally dispensed.

Watch it yourself, the card was being written before he'd said two words, and a montage of him saying Fck off during a game, cut in with pictures of the ref, does not mean it was directed at the ref, there were 11 mancs to say that to.

According to the laws it is actually a sending off offence if a player:

uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures.

Masch had done this repeatedly throughout the game. It says nothing in the laws about it only counting if it's towards the ref. He may have directed it all at Manc players but that's still an offense.

As I've mentioned in my previous posts, it was harsh for him to get the 2nd yellow when he did because he wasn't offensive THAT TIME. I've also said that it was clear Bennett had decided he'd had enough and had made up his mind that the next time Masch approached him he'd send him off. Masch shouldn't have given him any excuse.

He was unlucky to be booked for asking "what happened" however he was very lucky not to have been booked on the 3 or 4 occasions he did show dissent.

What I have also said is that Bennett was wrong for his inconsistency. I guarantee other players swore at him and each other. Ronaldo dived at least twice but wasn't booked.

Someone on our team should have taken the responsibility to calm Masch down. It was blatantly obvious he was going to be sent off if he persisted in how he was behaving.

People can blame the ref all they want but he was only a minor fact in why we lost. We were poor, slow, unable to pass and not up for it. Masch getting sent off didn't help but our lack of quality, especially down the flanks, was the reason we lost. Utd had good chances when we had 11 men. In fact Bennett could have given a pen and sent off Carra for his challenge early on. Thankfully he didn't but it does show we were under the kosh before Masch went off.

by **Red Dotty** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:53 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Bammo wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate? So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture? It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well? The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Nothing wrong? Have you seen the footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YQSmkB5XWg

According to the laws of the game a player may be cautioned if he:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action

among other things. It's quite understandable for Bennett to feel that a player repeatedly telling him to fuck off and question his decisions constitutes dissent or unsporting behaviour.

His sending off may be harsh but there are people on here who need to learn the laws of the game. Fair enough, complain about the inconsistency (Gerrard/Ronaldo swearing, Ronaldo diving but no bookings) but don't act like Masch did nothing wrong.

He did not swear at the referee when he was sent off. He did nothing that was out of the ordinary, and to this day, i have not seen a player sent off or yellowed for saying ' Why? what was that for ref? why?' What he did does not constitute dissent, and did not warrant a yellow card, had it, then there would be 20 yellows in each game.

Therefore he did nothing wrong, especially in terms of the way the LAWS of the game are normally dispensed.

Watch it yourself, the card was being written before he'd said two words, and a montage of him saying Fck off during a game, cut in with pictures of the ref, does not mean it was directed at the ref, there were 11 mancs to say that to.

For what it's worth and i'm sure it has been said already.

Mashc passion is not being questioned as it is good to see but the way it was directed given the incident with Ashley Cole was maybe not one of his most proffesional moments.

As i was watching the game my initial thought when he went over to the ref was one of please walk away please, but he didn't.

I am gutted it happened as i do feel it ruined the game, no i am not holding the moral high ground but as an example i get fed up of week in a out seeing our so called England captain John Moaning Fecking Terry do this i wish someone would have the bottle and send him off. Mashc has been a scap goat for what the FA are calling RESPECT what they know have to do is be CONSISTANT, something they have never been.

:down:

by **The_Rock** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:54 pm

Rafa laying the smackdown......

Although i can see why mascherano was sent off, I don't agree with the fact that why we have to be the 1st ones to suffer the cashley consequences... The refs should bring this anti-dissent stance gradually. Not just suddenly...

Also on the point of mascherano getting his ban extended....this is really ridiculous. I mean ashley cole acted worse than mascherano and here we are talking about mascherano having his ban extended

And all cashley got was a yellow ? Give me a break. There is just no consistency. :no

Fergie does this sh1t so often that the refs are practically scared of him. So I am with rafa all the way in this matter.

BTW, i just saw football focus with john dykes and steve mcmahon mentioned that rafa gave bennant the evil eye after the match ended....

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport....e_id=43

iverpool boss Benitez wants talks with referees chief
Tuesday, March 25, 2008
Benitez

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez wants talks with referees chief Keith Hackett after Javier Mascherano's controversial red card at Old Trafford on Sunday.

The Argentina midfielder faces a three-match ban after being issued a second yellow card for dissent in the 3-0 defeat to Manchester United, ruling him out of clashes with Everton, Arsenal and Blackburn.

If Mascherano requests a personal hearing the ban could be delayed and frustrated Benitez, who is convinced his midfilelder is innocent, is seeking talks with Hackett.

'I would like to speak to Keith Hackett because it is important that we find a solution,' Benitez told the Liverpool Echo.

'At Liverpool, we respect the game, we respect the rules and we respect the referee, and it is important to remember that Mascherano was the first Liverpool player to be sent off in the league this season.'

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