Liverpool FC Forum

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:09 pm

Benitez 'as surprised as Mascherano'
by Chris Stanton, 23 March 2008

Rafa Benitez believes referee Steve Bennett overreacted in dismissing Javier Mascherano for dissent in Liverpool’s 3-0 defeat against Manchester United.

The Reds were trailing 1-0 when Mascherano – already booked following a foul on Paul Scholes – contested vigorously a decision by Bennett to book Fernando Torres for dissent.

The Argentine was shown a second yellow card for the incident but was reluctant to leave the field and attempted to confront Bennett on more than one occasion.

Benitez explained: “It's clear Mascherano made a mistake but he was only asking the referee a question. Ryan Babel was there and saw that he was just asking.

"Maybe he does not know the referee.

"The referee decided to give a second yellow card and he couldn't understand. He was as surprised as me.

"I could speak to him in Spanish, so I said, 'Listen, it's finished.'

"He knows he made a mistake but he was so surprised. He is a very good professional who has played a lot of international games all around the world, and he couldn't understand why he was sent off for just asking.

"It's difficult to explain some things that happen on the pitch and I think it is perhaps better to not say too much this time."

by **tubby** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:12 pm

End of the day we lost and thats it.

by **kazza** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:14 pm

Well I guess it is back to rotation.

by **Yari7** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:15 pm

I was just watchign the Arsenal/Chelsea game and it has got me thinking.

While there will be so much debate on why we have failed this season in the league, I am thinking that maybe our players are just not good enough.

Only Gerrard and Torres would get into the United and Chelsea team. And arguably only those 2 would get into the Arsenal team as well.

With Chelsea and United, you have the excuse that they have spent millions, but with Arsenal, there is no excuse.

by **tubby** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:16 pm

kazza wrote:Well I guess it is back to rotation.

I knew that was coming at some point. :wwww

by **Yari7** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:17 pm

As for Masherano, the actual offence which he was booked for wasn't worthy of the yellow card by itself as he simply asked a question, however, his dissent after getting his first yellow and his continous swearing at the ref before the incident was a disgrace.

Masch was bnang out of order for his continuos dissent.

by **Yari7** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:22 pm

Also, Gerrard as captin should have taken responsibilty to calm down Mascherano after the second or third time he lashed out at the ref.

by **heimdall** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:22 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:After re-watching the mash clip, was he going to fight the ref?

First time I seen it. Anyone saying he deserved to go for that is a bell end. Sorry. That was a f*cking joke. Mascherano's reaction after seeing the yellow just says it all. Complete astonishment. That ref is a c*ck sucker!

did you watch the match? It wasn't just that incident it was the 7 before where he was sprinting up to the Ref and complaining. FFS he was shouting "F**K off" to the ref for 5 mins after his yellow card and it isn't on. Masch was bang out of order and he had to be sent off. Blame him, not the ref.

Yeah. So he shouted off to the ref. So?

He disagreed with him. It's a man's sport. And refs aren't always 100% correct. If I felt aggrieved, I'd tell someone to f*ck off too. Refs are clueless sometimes. At times they just don't use common sense. A talking to from the ref would have been adequate, but instead he goes and turns the game on its head and ruins it as a contest. It's getting to the point where you can't make a tackle or even express your emotions. Players are booked for celebrating a goal by taking their shirts off and the like. It's a f*cking joke. If you can't express your emotions on the pitch, then what's the point? Next they'll be issuing cards for spitting on the pitch.

abusing the officalls isn't on and there lies why you cannot understand the sending off. MAsch was out of order and a fool.....he needs to grow up.

Out of order for what? Do you even know what he said to the ref when he walked up to him? From Mascherano's reaction, I'd be willing to bet he said absolutely nothing to warrant a second yellow. It's a f*cking disgrace, and so are you for agreeing with that decision. Even Mr Bitter Andy Gray himself disagreed, yet you agree? Come on!

so its ok to shout f**k off to the ref when you get booked? Its acceptable to sprint over the the ref and rant and rave at them everytime a decision goes against you?

Masch let himself and LFC down today and if he hadn't been sent off for questioning the Torres yellow card he would have been sent off later on for something else. The fact you are defending Masch for letting us down is baffling.

He was only doing what any captain (hello, Steve?) would and should be doing and that's question the daft booking of Torres. I've seen players walk up to the ref a dozen times in every single game and gesture or point out a foul that he missed or didn't give. If a ref is making a f*ck up in games, someone has to say something about it. I know I would and have done. To be sent off for that is a disgrace. That's all I'm saying on the matter. The referee was wrong.

You are an absolute disgrace Emerald, are you advocating that all players should be allowed to tell the ref to F&ck off?? What kind of example is that sending youngsters to see their heroes have zero respect for authority.
I suppose you regularly tell your boss to f&ck off as well do you??

The disrespect to referees has to stop and for you to say its the same in Rugby is a joke. I have NEVER ever seen rugby players surround a ref, in fact if they did they would be sent to the sin bin immediately. If a Rugby player told a ref to f&ck off they would most probably get banned but it's ok for these spoilt and pampered footballers to walk around with no respect, I'm sick of it and if I was the FA I would clamp down on this immediately and say that no player except the captain may talk to the ref without the ref first talking to them, and even the captain has to show respect. If the ref makes bad decisions then that can be analysed and punished later.

by **JC_81** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:36 pm

heimdall wrote:The disrespect to referees has to stop

The disrespect shown to referees definitely has to stop. I'm just sorry that it was Mascherano that had the example made out of him in what proved to be a killer blow for us.

Arsenal, United, and in more recent years Chelsea have gotten away with murder when it comes to surrounding refs, intimidating them and swearing at them. Look at Ashley Cole in the Spurs game - definitely should have got a red for his dissent. Clearly the FA have decided to clamp down on this because of the press surrounding the Cole incident, and Mascerano was stupid enough to oblige.

If that truly is the end of dissent being tolerated then I'd be all for it - red card every player who argues and very soon we would have the same scenario that exists in rugby, where players are afraid to give back-chat because they know they will immediately be sent from the field. That should be the aim, even if there should be an initial flurry of red cards until players got it into their skulls that it's not accepted. The reality, however, is that in a few weeks this will all be forgotten about, there will be something new for the refs to clamp down on following an incident in another game, and things will revert to normal with players allowed to abuse referees. In the meantime it will be us that suffer with Mascherano suspended.

As for Mascherano, you have to admire his passion and I sympathise to some extent as the referee was really harsh on our players today. That said, everyone at Old Trafford and everyone watching that game could see the red card coming. Just before it happened I had turned to my mate and said we need to sub him at half time before he gets sent off - as it happened he didn't even make it to half time - that shows a lack of intelligence and experience from the lad and he'll learn from it.

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:40 pm

heimdall wrote:You are an absolute disgrace Emerald, are you advocating that all players should be allowed to tell the ref to F&ck off?? What kind of example is that sending youngsters to see their heroes have zero respect for authority.
I suppose you regularly tell your boss to f&ck off as well do you??

That gave me a laugh. It honestly did.

And, yeah, I've told many a ref to f*ck off. I've told my mates to f*ck off. And I'd certainly tell my boss to f*ck off too if I felt I was being hard done by.

Anyway, that's not the point. He got booked for that one. The point is, did you see him say "f*ck off" when he walked up to the ref? I didn't.

Anyway, to quote Shanks "The trouble with referee's is that they don't understand the game".

I agree.

by **Owzat** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:41 pm

Funnily enough I thought to myself perhaps Rafa should take Mascherano off when he got booked so early, you'd certainly think the player would try and keep his nose clean and out of any potential booking situation.

As for the defeat, same old same old. No goals, no points away from home and that's our 37th away defeat in 111 games under Rafa (1 in 3) We'll never win the league with that kind of record, and if our keeper is going to be as bad as he is brilliant all in one game. The scoreline flattered the mancs, their past masters at getting the most out of the ref and we didn't do much to stop them. It rather epitomises our season, go in full of expectation and come out wondering what went wrong and how we could have slipped up so badly. Hopefully Chelsea can take the smiles off the manc faces, let's hope the Arsenal dip in form continues and we meet them at just the right time. I'm not holding out much hope for a draw at their's though

by **Kash_Mountain** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:46 pm

Totally gutted. Mascher was stupid for his contant mouthyness.

The over reliance on SG is getting stupid (over reliance on Torres as well now). When are going to bring more match winners into the team. Players that can turn a game into our advantage?

Where was plan B or even C?

by **Owzat** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:49 pm

I'm not a big fan of Crouch, but as the game was going on and we were down to 10 men I'd have thrown him on. Nothing else was working, it had to be better than Rafa's normal predictable and uninspiring changes. Could be our best hope of scoring against them, they wouldn't let any of our pacier players have a direct run in on goal unimpaired so the best shot was corners etc

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:49 pm

Kash_Mountain wrote:Totally gutted. Mascher was stupid for his contant mouthyness.

The over reliance on SG is getting stupid (over reliance on Torres as well now). When are going to bring more match winners into the team. Players that can turn a game into our advantage?

Where was plan B or even C?

Have you got about a billion pounds to buy us out and then buy us these match winners?

by **JC_81** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:50 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
heimdall wrote:You are an absolute disgrace Emerald, are you advocating that all players should be allowed to tell the ref to F&ck off?? What kind of example is that sending youngsters to see their heroes have zero respect for authority.
I suppose you regularly tell your boss to f&ck off as well do you??

That gave me a laugh. It honestly did.

And, yeah, I've told many a ref to f*ck off. I've told my mates to f*ck off. And I'd certainly tell my boss to f*ck off too if I felt I was being hard done by.

Anyway, that's not the point. He got booked for that one. The point is, did you see him say "f*ck off" when he walked up to the ref? I didn't.

Anyway, to quote Shanks "The trouble with referee's is that they don't understand the game".

I agree.

Emerald, sorry mate but Mascherano was a stupid fu.cker today. It was obvious he was going to get a red card and it didn't matter whether he told the ref to fu.ck off or not, it's the fact that he was in the ref's face on 2 or 3 different occasions gesturing and mouthing off after he was on a booking - he lost the plot and there is no defending him.

Another point however is the fact that in the 2nd half after a dubious foul against Arbeloa was given on the edge of our box, you could clearly see Gerrard mouth the word 'fu.ck' to the ref in a tirade of abuse, yet nothing happened. My point is that the ref today was probably tolerating most verbal abuse, but as is often the case if a player makes a gesture or appears overly aggressive (like Mascherano) then they are going to get disciplined.

Most watching on tv won't have picked up on the Gerrard incident and therefore the ref will let it slide. However, he can't be seen to be allowing Mascherano to get right in his face at every decision and given the spotlight on the ref following the Cole v Spurs situation, the ref had no option but to produce the red.

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