Liverpool FC Forum

by **hello_red** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:41 am

I am sorry about any spelling mistakes.

Anyway,

this season is not over yet!

Lets sneak a prem!

by **Rush Job** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:45 am

JBG wrote:I think you realy need to check your metaphors (and spelling)

Well f*ck you i didnt realise i was being marked, get a life!

What metaphors?

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:00 am

Rush Job wrote:
JBG wrote:I think you realy need to check your metaphors (and spelling)

Well f*ck you i didnt realise i was being marked, get a life!

What metaphors?

Think he means the topic starter, mate. I'll correct the spelling mistakes now.

by **Rush Job** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:10 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
JBG wrote:I think you realy need to check your metaphors (and spelling)

Well f*ck you i didnt realise i was being marked, get a life!

What metaphors?

Think he means the topic starter, mate. I'll correct the spelling mistakes now.

Oops sorry JBG

by **KennyisGod....still** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:14 am

The league aint a poisoned chalice, it's jus that empty vessels make far too much noise! People think a manager can walk in and win the title in his first season jus cuz the chavs did it with maureen and a transfer fund the size of some country's budget!! It took ferguson 7 years I think to win it at the mancs, and look where they are now. Rafa's headin us the same way, despite protestations from the anti-Rafas. We're as close now as we've been at this stage for a while, playin none too badly and still with the top two to face, albeit away. I'm happy with where he's takin us, I see a bright (not a red-tinted) future and with one or two good buys we'll be up with anybody.

Next 3 games are the test for the league, but i wouldnt be surprised if we beat the mancs and everton and then Rafa benches a couple against Arsenal in the league. Disappointed, but not surprised. If Rafa senses 4th is safe, and we have a decent chance in the CL second leg, then that'll be his priority - and maybe rightly so. If we can almost say 4th is ours, why risk losin what we can actually win?

We're 3 points clear of everton, by the time the derby's over it could be 9....... 3rd's no better than 4th if it costs u the second leg of a CL 1/4 final. If Rafa keeps his selection as he is now for next season I believe we're truly gonna be a force to be contended with.

by **hello_red** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:37 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
JBG wrote:I think you realy need to check your metaphors (and spelling)

Well f*ck you i didnt realise i was being marked, get a life!

What metaphors?

Think he means the topic starter, mate. I'll correct the spelling mistakes now.

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:10 pm

bavlondon wrote:The solution is simple really.

Rafa stays but for sake give us a load more money so we can buy a squad capable of challanging for more than just half a season.

The solution is for Rafa to sign less sh1t then we'd have a squad capable of challenging already

£10m Kuyt
£7m Crouch
£6.7m Pennant
£6.3m Morientes
£6m Garcia
£6m Bellamy
£5.6m Sissoko
£2m Paletta
£2m Kromkamp/Josemi

That's £51.6m and would not make the base for a great XI, not of course mentioning a few players who cost nothing (money terms) like Pellegrino, Gonzalez and Nunez or even Itandje, Zenden and others. You could make up a makeshift XI from those combined names, wouldn't bet on it doing much better than Newcastle

It's a little harsh on one or two, but I think eyebrows have to be raised over the fee and relative returns in most cases. £50m or that lot? I think I'd take £40m or less

by **JC_81** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:27 pm

Owzat wrote:
bavlondon wrote:The solution is simple really.

Rafa stays but for sake give us a load more money so we can buy a squad capable of challanging for more than just half a season.

The solution is for Rafa to sign less sh1t then we'd have a squad capable of challenging already

£10m Kuyt
£7m Crouch
£6.7m Pennant
£6.3m Morientes
£6m Garcia
£6m Bellamy
£5.6m Sissoko
£2m Paletta
£2m Kromkamp/Josemi

That's £51.6m and would not make the base for a great XI, not of course mentioning a few players who cost nothing (money terms) like Pellegrino, Gonzalez and Nunez or even Itandje, Zenden and others. You could make up a makeshift XI from those combined names, wouldn't bet on it doing much better than Newcastle

It's a little harsh on one or two, but I think eyebrows have to be raised over the fee and relative returns in most cases. £50m or that lot? I think I'd take £40m or less

Think that's harsh mate, I am by no means one of those fans that think Rafa can do no wrong, but I think he's pretty good in the transfer market compared to most. Of the players you mention:

£10m Kuyt - I'll give you that, we paid well over the odds

£7m Crouch - He was an improvement on what we had, has done ok, and we'd easily recoup the 7 mil if we sold him now.

£6.7m Pennant - Probably again paid slightly over the odds, but again he was an improvement on what we had at the time and we'd probably get most of that money back if we sold him now.

£6.3m Morientes - A flop, but let's admit it, almost all of us thought this would be a great signing, so we can't blame Benitez who obviously thought the same.

£6m Garcia - Great signing, gave us something different. Scored a lot of goals from midfield, some very important ones and we recouped 4.5 mil. Good business imo.

£6m Bellamy - Didn't work out but was sold at a profit, so what's the problem?

£5.6m Sissoko - Form dipped after his serious eye injury and he never recovered from it after a good start at Anfield. Again, sold at a healthy profit - went for 8 mil.

£2m Paletta - Again, granted a poor signing

£2m Kromkamp/Josemi - Neither worked out, but we paid 2 mil for Josemi, then swapped for Kromkamp who was an improvement, then sold him off for a few million so we didn't really lose out financially

Let's not forget:

Agger - Looks a great buy for 5/6 mil

Alonso - Inspired signing at 10 mil, and although his form has dipped I believe we'd still make a profit on him

Torres - worth every penny

Arbeloa - great buy for 2.5 mil

Babel - Jury still out but I think he has excellent potential and may turn out to be a great buy

Skrtel - Again it's early days, but looks more than decent.

Mascherano - Inspired signing when not one other Premiership manager thought he was worth a punt.

Benayoun - 4 mil, decent squad player and we'd easily recoup that money

Overall I think Benitez is good in the transfer market. My problem is not with the players he signs, because when he spends good money on a player they usually turn out to be pretty useful. My problem is with the way he uses the players at his disposal at times.

He has spent a lot of money on players, but there has been a high turnover of players since he arrived and we've generated a lot of money from sales that people forget.

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:54 pm

I'm not suggesting every single one of Rafa's transfers are flops, although you've been a bit generous in some of your player by player appraisals. And what do your points about making profits have to do with anything? Just because he made a profit doesn't mean they were top signings, the mere fact he bought and sold them within three seasons says it all. Just because some mug was prepared to pay more than what we paid for them doesn't make them a success.

It demonstrates clearly what exactly £50m badly spent will get you. If you think the XI below is top notch then I'm not sure what I can say, it didn't cost £50m and maybe some even got sold at a profit, but I thought we were talking about signing players who were good enough to win the "poisoned chalice" not signing players with a view to making profits

GK Itandje
RB Kromkamp
LB Josemi
CB Paletta
CB Pellegrino
RM Pennant
LM Gonzalez
CM Zenden
CM Sissoko
CF Crouch
CF Morientes

by **JC_81** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:25 pm

Well if it so easy for you to identify what is a good and what is not a good signing then maybe you should be a manager mate? You seem very sure of yourself, but what you have done is dissected Benitez's transfer decisions in hindsight, which any mug will be able to tell you is one hundred times easier than predicting in advance who will be a good acquisition. In fact you must have little insight into the job of football management for you to be so dismissive and critical of Benitez's transfer policy. If you look at transfers in general, top managers have stated that only about one in three turn out to be a success.

My point about making a profit is not that that is the primary goal when you sign a player (obviously). My point is that Benitez usually recognises at a fairly early stage when a signing is not going to work out, and moves them on either at a profit or a small loss, rather than persevering with them for years until they're worth nothing and you're left with deadwood (as Houllier did).

He is going to get some signings wrong, simply because not having the same spending power as United or Chelsea he has had to look for cheaper/unknown options and hope he finds a few bargains.

Wenger, Ferguson and the various Chelsea managers over the last 10 years have all made more expensive mistakes than Benitez in the transfer market, but their domestic success has made up for it because Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho and now Grant all maximised the use of the players at their disposal. That is where I think Benitez falls down, but his transfer exploits have largely been good.

by **hello_red** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:25 pm

Why are you talking about signings? Theres other threads for that discussion!!!!

This about the league and our lack of success mentality wise.

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