Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:25 pm

john craig wrote:I'll ask you the same question again.

Do you think Benitez will win us the Premiership?

Yes, if he's given the time he deserves.

When Ferguson took over Man Utd he won :censored:

all for about 5 years. When Wenger took over he inherited an ageing side but still a pretty good one and he could take his time in rebuilding the side. Another thing that helped Wenger was at the time the only competition he faced was Man Utd. Mourinho took over Chelsea he was given a blank cheque book to just sign whoever he wanted to buy the title.

The three managers i have mentioned there are all very good managers and have still done a great job but looking at the job they had to do compared to Rafas then Rafa has had a far harder task. When Rafa took over we were a complete shambles. Our star striker was off and our midfield star Gerrard wanted out as well. The strength of the squad was sh#te and we were heading nowhere. Rafa has had to totally rebuild the squad from the starting eleven to the youth squad. He has had to do this on a very limited budget and in a very quick time.

Along the way we have won a Champs League, Fa Cup and Super Cup. We have been beaten finalists in a Champs League final as well as a Carling Cup one. We have managed to get the highest points total in Liverpools Premiership history.

You have to look closely at the struggle Rafa has. He is faced with beating three very good teams meaning that ok one of them teams may have an off season but all three wont so you have to be at your best almost every week. He is faced with having a net spend of around £25 million compared to the Champions net spend of around £70 million.

He is faced with a manager who has been allowed time to work with his youngsters bringing them through almost hassle free and able to build a new stadium because the owners seem to know what they are doing and now that team are reaping all the benefits.

Lots of people jump on Rafas back because they demand success and they demand it now but to say we are no better off then under Gerard Houllier is a joke. From top to bottom we are far stronger and will continue to do so in the future, especially if we can get shut of the current owners.

by **Effes** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:27 pm

Toffeehater wrote:well alrighty then why don't u start supporting chelsea , if u can't stand by ur club . End of .

Listen, I cant see why stating the bleeding obvious (i.e. Chelsea have a better chance of winning the title) is deemed as "not standing by the club"

It's not even an opinion, its fact.

That's why the bookies make Chelsea 3-1 and we are 100-1. Yes, that's right 100-1.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

by **Yari7** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:28 pm

stmichael wrote:When Ferguson took over Man Utd he won all for about 5 years.

Wasn't Fergie close to getting the sack at one poitn during his early years? Imagine Fergie got the sack. Man Utd may have never become the most dominant team in England as they have proven to be since the premiership started.

by **Effes** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:29 pm

stmichael wrote:Yes, if he's given the time he deserves.

When Ferguson took over Man Utd he won all for about 5 years. When Wenger took over he inherited an ageing side but still a pretty good one and he could take his time in rebuilding the side. Another thing that helped Wenger was at the time the only competition he faced was Man Utd. Mourinho took over Chelsea he was given a blank cheque book to just sign whoever he wanted to buy the title.

The three managers i have mentioned there are all very good managers and have still done a great job but looking at the job they had to do compared to Rafas then Rafa has had a far harder task. When Rafa took over we were a complete shambles. Our star striker was off and our midfield star Gerrard wanted out as well. The strength of the squad was sh#te and we were heading nowhere. Rafa has had to totally rebuild the squad from the starting eleven to the youth squad. He has had to do this on a very limited budget and in a very quick time.

Along the way we have won a Champs League, Fa Cup and Super Cup. We have been beaten finalists in a Champs League final as well as a Carling Cup one. We have managed to get the highest points total in Liverpools Premiership history.

You have to look closely at the struggle Rafa has. He is faced with beating three very good teams meaning that ok one of them teams may have an off season but all three wont so you have to be at your best almost every week. He is faced with having a net spend of around £25 million compared to the Champions net spend of around £70 million.

He is faced with a manager who has been allowed time to work with his youngsters bringing them through almost hassle free and able to build a new stadium because the owners seem to know what they are doing and now that team are reaping all the benefits.

Lots of people jump on Rafas back because they demand success and they demand it now but to say we are no better off then under Gerard Houllier is a joke. From top to bottom we are far stronger and will continue to do so in the future, especially if we can get shut of the current owners.

Which forum did you rip that one off?

by **maguskwt** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:12 pm

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:all this viewing the season as "missed opportunity" doesn't make sense... if we were good enough we will be up there in the thick... if we're not we won't... as simple as that... there is no such thing as opportunities in the league, you create your own opportunity...

Total bollox, opportunities arise not only by what your team does but by the mistakes that other managers make,by injuries and players being unavailable to the opposition. Its whether you take advantage of those mistakes that can make or break your season.

We had a team that was good enough to be in the title race, our manager made mistakes and the team lost confidence because of it, and opportunities to stay in the title race were lost.

If you don't look back at missed opportunities you will never learn by your mistakes, and you will continue to make the same mistakes season after season.

then there are opportunities like that EVERY season... other managers/teams always slip up sooner/later more/less... whether you are good enough to be in a position to take advantage of that is what matters...before we can take this opportunity we need to be good enough first... in all honesty we weren't... if we were arsenal leading the league for 7/8 of the season then slip up and loses the title in the last month of the season THEN one could say it's a missed opportunity... if we are chelsea now and did not make use of the top two teams' draws THEN one could say it's a missed opportunity... we are not in a position like that... so viewing this season as a missed opportunity makes ZERO sense... at the end of the season you get what you deserve really... but the season hasn't ended yet so we'll see... and blaming the manager's mistakes alone for our team's performances is unfair especially after all he had to put up with this season... the players also need to answer for their unexplainable underperformances... lost confidence my bollox... not to mention the gruesome twosome...

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:12 pm

Toffeehater wrote:well alrighty then why don't u start supporting chelsea , if u can't stand by ur club . End of .

err no. i dont think so.

I can, and will support my club through thick and thin mate.

dont start doubting someones loyalty to the club because they think that another team will win the title. You gonna question st mick, rafa-dodd, leon because they dont think we'll win the league this season either?... I was just being realistic.

My point is chelsea are in a better position and have a better chance of winning it. end of.

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:13 pm

Effes wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:well alrighty then why don't u start supporting chelsea , if u can't stand by ur club . End of .

Listen, I cant see why stating the bleeding obvious (i.e. Chelsea have a better chance of winning the title) is deemed as "not standing by the club"

It's not even an opinion, its fact.

That's why the bookies make Chelsea 3-1 and we are 100-1. Yes, that's right 100-1.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

exactly my point.

please dont question my loyalty again

by **heimdall** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:34 pm

I was firmly in the get Rafa out gang and still am to a certain point, but lately we have been playing well and the reason is that we have been playing the same formation with the pretty much the same players week in week out. If Rafa has finally learned not to rotate the team and formation then I'd tentatively be willing to give him one more season, if not then he has to go as rotation will not win you the league unless he is given a transfer budget of about £200 million in the summer. We simply do not have a good enough squad to rotate in the way that Rafa did early in the season.

by **JC_81** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:02 pm

stmichael wrote:
john craig wrote:I'll ask you the same question again.

Do you think Benitez will win us the Premiership?

Yes, if he's given the time he deserves.

When Ferguson took over Man Utd he won all for about 5 years. When Wenger took over he inherited an ageing side but still a pretty good one and he could take his time in rebuilding the side. Another thing that helped Wenger was at the time the only competition he faced was Man Utd. Mourinho took over Chelsea he was given a blank cheque book to just sign whoever he wanted to buy the title.

The three managers i have mentioned there are all very good managers and have still done a great job but looking at the job they had to do compared to Rafas then Rafa has had a far harder task. When Rafa took over we were a complete shambles. Our star striker was off and our midfield star Gerrard wanted out as well. The strength of the squad was sh#te and we were heading nowhere. Rafa has had to totally rebuild the squad from the starting eleven to the youth squad. He has had to do this on a very limited budget and in a very quick time.

Along the way we have won a Champs League, Fa Cup and Super Cup. We have been beaten finalists in a Champs League final as well as a Carling Cup one. We have managed to get the highest points total in Liverpools Premiership history.

You have to look closely at the struggle Rafa has. He is faced with beating three very good teams meaning that ok one of them teams may have an off season but all three wont so you have to be at your best almost every week. He is faced with having a net spend of around £25 million compared to the Champions net spend of around £70 million.

He is faced with a manager who has been allowed time to work with his youngsters bringing them through almost hassle free and able to build a new stadium because the owners seem to know what they are doing and now that team are reaping all the benefits.

Lots of people jump on Rafas back because they demand success and they demand it now but to say we are no better off then under Gerard Houllier is a joke. From top to bottom we are far stronger and will continue to do so in the future, especially if we can get shut of the current owners.

No one denies that Benitez has had a difficult task St Mike, and I certainly believe we are in a far healthier position as a club now than when Houllier left.

What I would say however, is that no matter how hard a task Benitez had here, he made it even harder for himself by certain decisions he made.

I'm not going to attribute much time here talking about rotation, but the evidence that it does not work in the Premiership and that our results improve without it is there for all to see. Benitez has ignored this evidence until about 5 weeks ago. Benitez's signings on the whole have been good, but his obsession for having a large squad built for mass rotation has hindered us, because at times we have gone for quantity where quality was needed. Because of that the strength of our squad has steadily improved, but the strength of our first 11 has improved only very slowly.

Ultimately these days managers are judged by 2 things:

1. Results
2. Money spent

Benitez has spent a lot of money and we have yet to challenge for the title let alone win it. Yes we won the Champions League which was a great achievement but let's not kid ourselves we rode our luck along the way and yes we won the FA Cup, which again let's not kid ourselves is not a significant trophy anymore. Yes he inherited a poor squad and yes he has had a lot of cr@p to deal with where the owners are concerned, but 4 years into his reign we are still not a lot closer to winning the title.

As I said before I am not saying he should be sacked, and this is certainly not the time to talk about that as we have some huge games coming up, I'm just saying that we shouldn't let our recent run of good form cloud our judgement of the bigger picture.

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:20 pm

stmichael wrote:It's amazing what a run of a few decent results will do.

Therein lies the key, unbeaten runs of games are no good, but seven or more straight wins soon push you up the table.

BUT, as in my poll/thread on the number of points we might get in the remainder of the season, we picked up eight points from the corresponding seven fixtures we played last season and have left this (excludes brum) There's no way we'll win the league if we repeat that form. And we may well be distracted by the Champions League, I'd like to think the authorities considered rescheduling the league fixture, but I doubt they would. What they're doing having the two legs that close is what I'd like to know. But then nothing much surprises me these days, it's another in the long list of tough fixtures we've played before or after the Champions League.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:23 pm

For me, the title is probably a bridge too far this season. We've shot ourselves in the foot too early in the campaign and it's gonna take a Herculean effort to reign in the leaders.... Not to mention it requires a slip up of epic proportions on the part of the 3 front runners. I've been heartened by the recent run of results and am pleased that Rafa is keeping a stable squad/formation.... long may it continue as I truly believe that this is the wisest course of action.

Agree with S@int and bigmick that its been a season of lost opportunities.

But then again, mathematically, we're still in with a shout and until the fat lady sings I will continue to hold out hope.

I've told John (GBJH) that if we win the league and European Cup double, I'll personally fly home and smash open a couple of barrels for us to celebrate..... If it happens, we're gonna drink ourselves blind. Hell, I'll do the same if we "only"win the prem! All are welcome btw.....

If it happens I'll name me daughter coming in May, Rafaela!

by **Judge** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:42 pm

Effes wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:well alrighty then why don't u start supporting chelsea , if u can't stand by ur club . End of .

Listen, I cant see why stating the bleeding obvious (i.e. Chelsea have a better chance of winning the title) is deemed as "not standing by the club"

It's not even an opinion, its fact.

That's why the bookies make Chelsea 3-1 and we are 100-1. Yes, that's right 100-1.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

think he drinks decaf, so wont be able to smell it so well

by **dawson99** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:45 pm

weve done the same we do EVERY season. rotate early and lose, then when we are fresh and others are tiring we win, but by then its too late and we end up scrapping with the little teams like neverton. its getting boring. we wont win the title this season, weve left it too late again... which frustrates the feck outta me

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:46 pm

ConnO'var wrote:If it happens I'll name me daughter coming in May, Rafaela!

nice name actually

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:15 pm

ConnO'var wrote:For me, the title is probably a bridge too far this season. We've shot ourselves in the foot too early in the campaign and it's gonna take a Herculean effort to reign in the leaders.... Not to mention it requires a slip up of epic proportions on the part of the 3 front runners. I've been heartened by the recent run of results and am pleased that Rafa is keeping a stable squad/formation.... long may it continue as I truly believe that this is the wisest course of action.

Agree with S@int and bigmick that its been a season of lost opportunities.

But then again, mathematically, we're still in with a shout and until the fat lady sings I will continue to hold out hope.

I've told John (GBJH) that if we win the league and European Cup double, I'll personally fly home and smash open a couple of barrels for us to celebrate..... If it happens, we're gonna drink ourselves blind. Hell, I'll do the same if we "only"win the prem! All are welcome btw.....

If it happens I'll name me daughter coming in May, Rafaela!

Never give up hope Con. This club is famous for making come backs and what's even better is everyone on the telly is only interested in the top three. Discarding us like they do every round in Europe.

I don't think all should be invited to our celebratery drink though Con, can you imagine certain people in here in the same room as one another. They'd be punches thrown...just like a good scouse party should be.

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