Title? - Possibility?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby bigmick » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:22 am

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:For the record, I dont think we have a chance, but there will be a few with egg on their faces when we are within 2 wins, which is a distinct possiblity.

I agree with just about all of that, though I'd probably disagree about who'd have egg on their faces not that it's important. I can't help wondering if we hadn't belatedly adopted this consistency of selection where we might actually have got to, and whether anybody would have been concerned at all about eggs and faces.

I thought you were of the opinion that this spell of wins probably wasn't in any great way down to a more consistent team selection, more down to the fact that the pressure was on and we had a relatively easy set of games in the league?

I said that after we'd won a couple of games that I wasn't going to get too carried away with it all being down to "sensible" team selection. I've also said a couple of times that given the fact that we've gone into nearly every game with broadly the same team, I'd have expected us to be playing better than we currently are and that has both surprised and disappointed me somewhat.

I've never claimed anywhere though that either winning games or losing them is all down to rotation or lack thereof. It's one of a number of urban myths put about by rose tinters "it's not just about rotation" etc, even though nobody ever said it was. The reason we are winning games at the moment as I've said a couple of times is that firstly the games are very winnable in nature, secondly Torres and Gerrard have formed a brilliant partnership and thirdly the team has developed momentum and belief. Rotation would certainly have an effect on the last two factors, but it's by no means the ONLY reason we are going well.

There's no question though in my mind that the settled team thing has a huge effect. It's certainly having a significantly bigger impact ont he team than the fact that Gerrard and Torres sat out an hours football fve months ago lets put it that way. If we continue as we are into next season, I predict here and now that almost regardless of who he signs in the summer we'll go very close in the Premiership. We would have done this season after all.
Last edited by bigmick on Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:27 am

I think I will be looking back on this season as one of missed opportunities. The mancs have had to play all season without a "real" striker, Chelsea have been struggling to recover from losing the "special one", a string of injuries and a number of their players involved in th African cup, leaving only a resurgent Arsenal leading the way for most of the season. Now with Arsenal suffering from what may prove to be a terminal bliiip the way should have been open for our run to the title.

We blew it, when if we could have just hung in there and grabbed a few more points against very beatable teams we could and should have been in a position now to be if not leading the title race at least a genuine participant in the race.

Bad performances, poor decisions by Rafa (yes and bad luck and our own injuries)have cost us probably as good a chance as we could have wished for to win the title. Will we have the same opportunity next season? The mancs will no doubt strengthen their strike force, Arsenal will be one year more experienced and Chelsea have the money to buy almost anyone they wish, while we will probably still be fighting over who owns us rather than buying the star players we need.

A great opportunity lost, I just hope we get another chance soon.
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:29 am

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:For the record, I dont think we have a chance, but there will be a few with egg on their faces when we are within 2 wins, which is a distinct possiblity.

I agree with just about all of that, though I'd probably disagree about who'd have egg on their faces not that it's important. I can't help wondering if we hadn't belatedly adopted this consistency of selection where we might actually have got to, and whether anybody would have been concerned at all about eggs and faces.

I thought you were of the opinion that this spell of wins probably wasn't in any great way down to a more consistent team selection, more down to the fact that the pressure was on and we had a relatively easy set of games in the league?

I said that after we'd won a couple of games that I wasn't going to get too carried away with it all being down to "sensible" team selection. I've also said a couple of times that given the fact that we've gone into nearly every game with broadly the same team, I'd have expected us to be playing better than we currently are and that has both surprised and disappointed me somewhat.

I've never claimed anywhere though that either winning games or losing them is all down to rotation or lack thereof. It's one of a number of urban myths put about by rose tinters "it's not just about rotation" etc, even though nobody ever said it was. The reason we are winning games at the moment as I've said a couple of times is that firstly the games are very winnable in nature, secondly Torres and Gerrard have formed a brilliant partnership and thirdly the team has developed momentum and belief. Rotation would certainly have an effect on the last two factors, but it's by no means the ONLY reason we are going well.

There's no question though in my mind that the settled team thing has a huge effect. It's certainly having a significantly bigger impact ont he team than the fact that Gerrard and Torres sat out an hours football lets put it that way. If we continue as we are into next season, I predict here and now that almost regardless of who he signs in the summer we'll go very close in the Premiership. We would have done this season after all.

Nowhere did I say (or intimate) you viewed it as the 'only' factor that has had brought about a positive spell of results, but this statement:
I can't help wondering if we hadn't belatedly adopted this consistency of selection where we might actually have got to, and whether anybody would have been concerned at all about eggs and faces.
would certainly imply that you believe it's played a very significant part in it.
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Postby bigmick » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:34 am

Oh very significant absolutely. No question about that. You've only got to look at where we are in the league and do the sums if we'd won a couple of games we drew. Rotation need only effect the team 10% negatively to be very significant, enough to cost you a shot at the title. Has rotation "Rafa style" cost us a shot at the title this season? 100% in my opinion. I don't think FWIW we would have won it, but we should be at the very least level with Chelsea.
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Postby Woollyback » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:02 am

my maths is probably b0llocks cos i'm a bit p1ssed but for us to win the title firstly we'd have to win all our remaining games and united would have to LOSE 3 of theirs. as much as i'd obviously love it to happen, it ain't gonna
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Postby RedBlood » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:16 am

Woollyback wrote:my maths is probably b0llocks cos i'm a bit p1ssed but for us to win the title firstly we'd have to win all our remaining games and united would have to LOSE 3 of theirs. as much as i'd obviously love it to happen, it ain't gonna

if we beat them next week then we have to win all our games and they have to lose twice and im sure they play arsenal and chelsea in that time??

i think this sunday will deside weather we have an unlikely late challenge at the title or a desperate fight for 4th with the blue :censored:
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Postby Dundalk » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:29 am

Woollyback wrote:my maths is probably b0llocks cos i'm a bit p1ssed but for us to win the title firstly we'd have to win all our remaining games and united would have to LOSE 3 of theirs. as much as i'd obviously love it to happen, it ain't gonna

This will do the Maths for you Wooly

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2....ult.stm
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Postby username » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:30 am

Woollyback wrote:my maths is probably b0llocks cos i'm a bit p1ssed but for us to win the title firstly we'd have to win all our remaining games and united would have to LOSE 3 of theirs. as much as i'd obviously love it to happen, it ain't gonna

4 games.
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:34 am

If we beat Manure, then we've got a real chance.

If we lose, it's over.
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Postby SupitsJonF » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:49 am

I had Chelsea winning, with us in second, and Man U in third when i did the league table thing.

I was a little harsh on Man U, but most of the time I gave them the win.
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Postby maguskwt » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:54 am

all this viewing the season as "missed opportunity" doesn't make sense... if we were good enough we will be up there in the thick... if we're not we won't... as simple as that... there is no such thing as opportunities in the league, you create your own opportunity...
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Postby bigmick » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:59 am

maguskwt wrote:all this viewing the season as "missed opportunity" doesn't make sense... if we were good enough we will be up there in the thick... if we're not we won't... as simple as that... there is no such thing as opportunities in the league, you create your own opportunity...

You create your own opportunity, or you blow it. Just a thought, if we had gome all season with this formula of playing 4-5-1 with a fairly settled bunch of players, unafraid to allow blokes to play a string of matches without a rest but happy to give people an odd day off, do you think we would have amassed more, less, or the same number of points?
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Postby maguskwt » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:29 am

bigmick wrote:
maguskwt wrote:all this viewing the season as "missed opportunity" doesn't make sense... if we were good enough we will be up there in the thick... if we're not we won't... as simple as that... there is no such thing as opportunities in the league, you create your own opportunity...

You create your own opportunity, or you blow it. Just a thought, if we had gome all season with this formula of playing 4-5-1 with a fairly settled bunch of players, unafraid to allow blokes to play a string of matches without a rest but happy to give people an odd day off, do you think we would have amassed more, less, or the same number of points?

there will always be stories of what if's if you choose to look at it that way... if you're one of the 4 top teams there will always be a probability of winning the league... if arsenal falters now there will always be an arsenal fan saying if we have rotated a bit more maybe we could have sustained our league challenge... so too for all the other clubs that has a probability of getting to a goal like the UEFA cup place or the CL place or avoiding relegation...

you're right we probably will have more points if we played 4-2-3-1 (I won't mention your other conditions :) ) from the beginning but we didnt'. would you have known to play this formation from the beginning? would we have more points now if we played 4-4-2 and stuck to it from the beginning? It becomes less certain and more debatable isn't it? saying things from a retrospect is easy. At the end of the day, we are what we make ourselves, including the bad decisions and the good decisions...
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Postby Toffeehater » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:05 am

Yari7 wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Yari7 wrote:We must play a full strength team against Everton. I can't beleive that any Liverpool fan would think of resting players in one of our most important games of the season.

We need to think of arsenal , that is if we get a win against manure , i would rest players for the everton game , masch , babel in particular . I would play Gerrard , Torres and Carra but haul em off as soon as we get a safe lead say 2-0

Say if we beat United and Everton win their next game, and then say if we do not play the best team possible and we lose to Everton, We would be level on points again for the race for Fourth place. That would let tham right back into the race for fourth spot.

Everton will be a very tough game and we can't think of resting players now.

If anything, it would be smarter to rest players in the league game vs Arsenal in between the 2 Champions League matches as if we defeat Everton, we could have a 6 point gap over them (Assuming they win the game before us)

Something has to give with 4 huge games in 11 days but I trust Rafa to make full use of his squad as he is the master of this.

As for Chelsea, I see Chelsea maybe winning it. They are 3 points of the top with a game in hand and still have Man Utd and Arsenal at the Bridge. And they have the best squad of players.

Well since u put in that way , everton are in a slump now , they lost to fulham , hats off to them , it was a great fight and they prob deserved more then a 1-0
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Postby Toffeehater » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:09 am

Redman in wales wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:Chelsea can't win it TBH , grant hasn't gotten a clue

:laugh:

grant's not got a clue?? - 10 wins and 2 draws in his last 12 league games says dfferent.

I'm sorry but like it or not chelsea will finish above us this year.

utd will beat bolton, villa  and blackburn. i'd put money on it if i could bring myself to bet on utd.

Dont forget, as rafa-dodd says 0 points from 9 is still a real possibility for us (i dont think that will happen, but its just as possible!).


remember this thread? -  3 points system thread

- we discused at length the matches we thought utd, arsenal and chelsea would drop points in.  - They didnt. and infact we dropped more points than they did.

As much as i love the optimism and would love to be wrong on this issue: we will not win every game from now till the end of the season. we will drop points too.

He inherited a squad, it's not his . Secondly the whole chelsea squad was bought . Thirldy , his side was :censored: poor against us at the bridge , hell we shud have beaten them , sorry i've not seen anything spectuclar from grant , he's got a good squad thats it . We saw in the league cup final against spurs when they were in extra time , he was clueless . Had no answer to berbatov and keane
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