Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:53 am

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I refer you to Paco De Miguel.

Perhaps you will have to help me out LFC with a quote or something. Needless to say however, whoever he is and whatever his views are he will never ever convince me that "Rafa style" was and is a good idea

Our fitness coach

I had a feeling that was the bloke. Mind you, I would have been a tad surpised to find he was an ardent anti-rotationalist to be perfectly honest. Similarly, if Rafa ever takes on assistant my guess is it won't be somebody who doesn't believe in the old "delayed Gazelle". Probably rules out Arsene Wenger I would have thought.

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:56 am

s@int wrote:One player that I think might be worth the money and according to Dawson could well be available is Van Persie off Arsenal.

He's a great player I think. Unfortunately I don't think the stories of Arsenal moving him on are likely to be true, unless of course his previous wayward tendencies have reared their ugly head and in which case we maybe in a Pennant/Bellamy situation again.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:01 am

bigmick wrote:
s@int wrote:One player that I think might be worth the money and according to Dawson could well be available is Van Persie off Arsenal.

He's a great player I think. Unfortunately I don't think the stories of Arsenal moving him on are likely to be true, unless of course his previous wayward tendencies have reared their ugly head and in which case we maybe in a Pennant/Bellamy situation again.

I hadn't heard of his previous wayward tendancies Mick but you have got it in one for why he is supposedly on the move.

I still think he would be worth the gamble (depending on price) Maybe we could ship Pennant out and so we still only have the one "bad boy" at the club?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:05 am

I watched the Wigan-Arsenal game today and Van Persie made his return from his long injury. He didn't look at all like a man worthy of a place in a Premiership side. He was trying to hard to make an impact, rather than bed himself back into the swing of things.

To much of a gamble IMO, especially with this reoccuring thigh problem he has.

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:13 am

s@int wrote:I hadn't heard of his previous wayward tendancies Mick but you have got it in one for why he is supposedly on the move.

Yeah apparently when he was at PSV or wherever they got him from he was a bit of a case by all accounts. I think that in most part explained the ridiculously low fee (around 3 mill from memory) they played for such a prodigiously talented young player.

He'd probably be five times that now, and in my opinion from a football point of view worth every penny. At the risk of provoking a negative response from some parts of the forum though, I wouldn't say that Rafa strikes me as necessarily the kind of manager who would get the best out of these wayward spirits to be perfectly honest. Despite his talent, I wouldn't think Van persie would be his type of player.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:32 am

s@int wrote:One player that I think might be worth the money and according to Dawson could well be available is Van Persie off Arsenal.

He is a more than adequate replacement if Torres was injured, would work well with Torres if played together, and may in time drop back and become the creative second striker we are looking for. He is fast, has good vision and skill, decent in the air and a more than competent finisher. Depending on price I would add him to my list of desirables (Diego, Aguero)

Not the versatile winger/second striker you were looking for mate but a cracking player. Aimar would be in the category you suggest, as he can play wide or central, just a bit small and maybe not as quick as he once was. Fantastic vision and passing ability but maybe doesn't score enough goals?

If that rumour has any truth in it, I'd snap off their hand s@int. The boy is class and is definitely worth a long look.

As you said, a cracking player and would definitely enhance our 1st team.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:33 am

bigmick wrote:He's a great player I think. Unfortunately I don't think the stories of Arsenal moving him on are likely to be true, unless of course his previous wayward tendencies have reared their ugly head and in which case we maybe in a Pennant/Bellamy situation again.

In truth Mick.... I hadn't heard about that side of him....
A bit worrying if true.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:38 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I watched the Wigan-Arsenal game today and Van Persie made his return from his long injury. He didn't look at all like a man worthy of a place in a Premiership side. He was trying to hard to make an impact, rather than bed himself back into the swing of things.

To much of a gamble IMO, especially with this reoccuring thigh problem he has.

No John.... I disagree with the part of your post that I'd highlighted.... He's coming back from injury and that will take some time. Think about Xabi..... If you based your judgement on some of the games he's played this season alone without taking into account his past displays, yoiu'd come to the conclusion that he wasn't good enough too.... but we all know he is.

The bit about being a gamble because of his recurring thigh problem is true though and I hadn't considered it earlier.

That and the bit about him being a bit of a lad that Mick had alluded to earlier does cast a shadow of doubt about him though.

by **RedBlood** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:51 am

van persie is no gamble the boy is absolute class..him and torres upfront would be frightening and would easily be he best strike partnership around in my opinion

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:14 am

RedBlood wrote:van persie is no gamble the boy is absolute class..him and torres upfront would be frightening and would easily be he best strike partnership around in my opinion

he was class last season , this season he has struggled to make an impact maybe due to injuries and all , this final few games will tell if he has recovered from that injury or not , and if he was a one season wonder ...

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:16 am

I'd love to have RVP, the footballer not the headcase, in a red shirt. I just can't see it happening, though. If he does leave Arsenal, I'm sure he'll be off to one of the European leagues.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:36 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I do agree with some of Mick, like us still rotating to much. My main gripe at this particular bit was Aurellio (my boo boy if truth be told) and Bob pulled me up about it. To summerise Bob's point it was "how can you slag Aurellio off all season then when he's dropped ask why he wasn't playing?" Which I suppose is a fair question and one that would need some sensible explaination. My explaination was Benitez is rotating/dropping/resting a player just as he's found his form. Aurellio's first goal for the club, his confidence would of been sky high and he's dropped. So in Milan if (and I expect him to be) Aurellio is selected he's going to have to start again, finding his feet to the pace. Likewise Kuyt and Babel. Two of them are finding their feet and form in this system so ahead of a hugely important game he drops them. I don't see the logic in that meself. Why drop players who are finding form? It's just going to shatter their confidence even more. That's where rotation fails for me. If you're changing players who are struggling fair enough, but not the ones who are playing well.

your point on kuyt and babel is a bit strange... if the manager said " I will be resting you two so that I can use you for the inter clash" then why would their confidence be shattered? come on now they're professional footballers not some delicate orchids...

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:43 am

Fair enough Con, it might be down to him coming back from injury but I'm not sure what his best position is and where he'd fit in. I've seen him play on either flank and had my doubts over him, as well as up front where he doesn't look like a natural forward. I'd be worried if we took him onto our books. He and Torres wouldn't link up well IMO, both like to do to much with the ball. They wouldn't have the same relationship Gerrard and Torres do. Left wing, I like Babel (reminds me of V.Persie in all honesty.) Right wing, don't think Van Persie would be suited to it personally.

Overall wouldn't be my first choice for a signing.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:45 am

bigmick wrote:If we are going to persist with it though and have pretensions of winning the League with it, two things need to happen IMHO. Firstly either Alonso, Masherano or a combination of the two absolutely must provide more imput going forward. This is both in terms of joining the play and goal threat. At the moment it's great that Gerrard and Torres have a perfect marriage, but one or both of the other central midfielders needs to become a bit on the side. The feeling persists that against the better teams, we'll end up playing 4-4-1 with Gerrard wandering around like a lost puppy (and therefore not even worthy of a number) and the other two central midfielders BOTH performing the role of holding midfielder. I have absolutely no doubts that this will be the game plan of Man Utd, arsenal and Everton when they play us should we go with this formation. FWIW I think the onus is on Alonso as he is much the more creative footballer of the two. He simply must join in the Torres/Gerrard love fest a little more.

don't completely agree with your interpretation of this formation mick. IMO one of the CM's must join the play, yes. but he doesn't need to chip in on goal. IMO this formation is about the wide forwards or wingers joining in the attack... the CAM (gerrard) supports the CF (Torres)... and that's where the opponent's defence panicks... because in an ideal case... all of a sudden you have 3 "forwards" running at you in a wide front,supported by CAM which basically means 4 attackers...and that's how we beat bolton, you see babel running at them on breaks on one side, kuyt on the other side, torres in the middle, in this case the two CM's priorities should be more defensive than offensive and the full backs should advance to a certain extent that they can provide some width... well that's how i see it anyway...

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:49 am

maguskwt wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I do agree with some of Mick, like us still rotating to much. My main gripe at this particular bit was Aurellio (my boo boy if truth be told) and Bob pulled me up about it. To summerise Bob's point it was "how can you slag Aurellio off all season then when he's dropped ask why he wasn't playing?" Which I suppose is a fair question and one that would need some sensible explaination. My explaination was Benitez is rotating/dropping/resting a player just as he's found his form. Aurellio's first goal for the club, his confidence would of been sky high and he's dropped. So in Milan if (and I expect him to be) Aurellio is selected he's going to have to start again, finding his feet to the pace. Likewise Kuyt and Babel. Two of them are finding their feet and form in this system so ahead of a hugely important game he drops them. I don't see the logic in that meself. Why drop players who are finding form? It's just going to shatter their confidence even more. That's where rotation fails for me. If you're changing players who are struggling fair enough, but not the ones who are playing well.

your point on kuyt and babel is a bit strange... if the manager said " I will be resting you two so that I can use you for the inter clash" then why would their confidence be shattered? come on now they're professional footballers not some delicate orchids...

Because they don't know they're playing against Inter. Benitez names the team an hour before kick off, not three days in advance.

Kuyt and Babel, who aren't exactly in a position yet to know they're not being dropped because of a rest, will dent their confidence. Even if it's ever so slightly, it'll still be dented.

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