Liverpool FC Forum

by **ConnO'var** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:54 pm

Judge wrote:The team is the one playing on the field, a squad is the total amount of first team players you have to choose from.
You should ALWAYS play the best eleven regardless of the oppo (barring injuries etc).

The best sides rotate the odd few (just like LFC did in the 70's and 80's). Its up to the fringe players to gel with a strong back bone of a squad that plays week in week out.

how can a team have cohesion, when its always being chopped and changed!! The simple answer is - it has not.

If you examine the league - it is a sustained challenge and therefore rotation clearly doesnt work, especially if you make wholesale changes.

In europe - this format is mainly based on one off matches, so therefore it is suited to rotation, as you will be playing an unfamiliar team to the oppo. Therefore, rafa uses that to ensure the oppo cant get the upper hand.

Before anyone squeals, ''what about the FA cup etc, thats a one off match''. I can tell you this. Much of the time we play the same sides anyway in a home competition, compared to those in europe. And i suspect, the home teams have the measure of us and exploit the rotation thing.

That would explain why rafa is brilliant in europe and cack in the home domestic scene.

My advice would be to scrap the wholesale rotation of players and form a solid team that plays week in week out, and only change the odd one or two (like subs). Therefore, you create ateam that understands each other, much like a smooth running engine - IT WILL NOT FALTER

I challange anyone to disagree with my rational reasoning of everything rotational

That's about as succint a summation of my thoughts on rotation as you can get, Judge. Agree wholeheartedly....

Nice post Judgey...

by **Judge** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:57 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
Judge wrote:The team is the one playing on the field, a squad is the total amount of first team players you have to choose from.
You should ALWAYS play the best eleven regardless of the oppo (barring injuries etc).

The best sides rotate the odd few (just like LFC did in the 70's and 80's). Its up to the fringe players to gel with a strong back bone of a squad that plays week in week out.

how can a team have cohesion, when its always being chopped and changed!! The simple answer is - it has not.

If you examine the league - it is a sustained challenge and therefore rotation clearly doesnt work, especially if you make wholesale changes.

In europe - this format is mainly based on one off matches, so therefore it is suited to rotation, as you will be playing an unfamiliar team to the oppo. Therefore, rafa uses that to ensure the oppo cant get the upper hand.

Before anyone squeals, ''what about the FA cup etc, thats a one off match''. I can tell you this. Much of the time we play the same sides anyway in a home competition, compared to those in europe. And i suspect, the home teams have the measure of us and exploit the rotation thing.

That would explain why rafa is brilliant in europe and cack in the home domestic scene.

My advice would be to scrap the wholesale rotation of players and form a solid team that plays week in week out, and only change the odd one or two (like subs). Therefore, you create ateam that understands each other, much like a smooth running engine - IT WILL NOT FALTER

I challange anyone to disagree with my rational reasoning of everything rotational

That's about as succint a summation of my thoughts on rotation as you can get, Judge. Agree wholeheartedly....

Nice post Judgey...

cheers

judge for mod

by **stmichael** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:23 pm

i generally agree with what judge is saying.

the problem is, do we actually have a "best team"? we probably know who the best players are but that doesn't necessarily make the best team.

if you asked ten people what our best line up was, you'd probably get ten different line-ups.

by **Judge** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:40 pm

stmichael wrote:i generally agree with what judge is saying.

the problem is, do we actually have a "best team"? we probably know who the best players are but that doesn't necessarily make the best team.

if you asked ten people what our best line up was, you'd probably get ten different line-ups.

and thats because of rotation stmike.

if the side was more settled and playing the same faces every or most weeks, then i feel sure that consistency in the league would follow.

you would find that most folk would pick more or less the same eleven, give or take the odd change, as we would be seeing more of a team, rather than a side of individuals.

because of the chop and changing, it will take more time for this squad to settle on a regular team side that is capable of sustaining a challange for the title, providing rafa adopts a policy of minor tinkering and not wholesale.

Rafa is an intelligent man, and my thinking is he wants his system to work. However, it clearly does not at home anyway, and the sooner he admits that to himself the better for the team.

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:36 am

Judge wrote:
stmichael wrote:i generally agree with what judge is saying.

the problem is, do we actually have a "best team"? we probably know who the best players are but that doesn't necessarily make the best team.

if you asked ten people what our best line up was, you'd probably get ten different line-ups.

and thats because of rotation stmike.

if the side was more settled and playing the same faces every or most weeks, then i feel sure that consistency in the league would follow.

you would find that most folk would pick more or less the same eleven, give or take the odd change, as we would be seeing more of a team, rather than a side of individuals.

because of the chop and changing, it will take more time for this squad to settle on a regular team side that is capable of sustaining a challange for the title, providing rafa adopts a policy of minor tinkering and not wholesale.

Rafa is an intelligent man, and my thinking is he wants his system to work. However, it clearly does not at home anyway, and the sooner he admits that to himself the better for the team.

If you asked 10 people, you WILL get 10 different line ups.... The probability of everyone choosing the same team is mathematically infinitesmally(sp?) small.

Of more importance I feel is that the spine of most people's team will be the same.

Reina
Carra Agger
Gerrard Masch/Alonso
Torres

I don't think too many people will deviate from those 6 with only the partner for Gerrard being up for discussion.

With a spine like that..... you really wonder what happened to us this year..... besides the fact that Agger got hurt of course.

Rotation MAY be causing a lot of unhappy and confused players at Anfield right now... that's open to conjecture and assumptions.

But one things for sure, Rotation hasn't brought us any joy in the league to-date....

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:45 pm

Con, that spine is the best in the league as far as I can see. So whether or wide players are that bad, or it is rotation?

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:53 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Con, that spine is the best in the league as far as I can see. So whether or wide players are that bad, or it is rotation?

I agree with you John...... that spine is probably the best in the league or at the VERY least, extremely close to it.

Our wide players are probably not that bad though I have been very critical of some of them.... IMO, the problem is rotation coupled with a few other factors like the team set-up and strange formations and playing people out of position.

THe crux of the matter really is, methinks, the fact that the players aren't a cohesive unit and probably do not have enough "together" time on the pitch. The fact that they are sometimes played out of position and in strange formations doesn't help either.

In a league where strength and pace is the norm and time on the ball is not afforded, this is a real problem.

by **Judge** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:17 pm

TBH, i reckon that at least 8 or 9 players need to be playing week in week out, with the possibility of counting 10 regulars (barring injury). IMO, its the only way to bring cohesion to a very disjointed team at present.

How you can expect players to fit 7 or 8 different team systems, when much of the those who are actually winning the league play at tops, only two. Tinkering DOES NOT work in a sustained competitive league, such as our premiership.

You need a TEAM (and i stress team, as we play a squad of players) to be familiar with the way it works. Its like putting unleaded in a diesel engine at present, which is why it aint working. Short term solutions work on that basis, which is why it works in europe, but not at home.

A TEAM is more likely to adapt to systems, if they are familiar with each other regularly, rather than disjointed selections based on individual effort (eg: rotation). We should make the TEAM fit the systems of play, rather than have the systems fit the squad. Rafa, sad to say, has it back to front, imo.

I guarantee, if RAFA changed his policy on selection, to more robust regular team sheet, then sustained success in the league will follow, im sure.

I admire rafa with sticking with what he believes, but Mr Benitez, its time to change the policy. Settle on a team which you feel will win, and stick with it. We have the players, the skill and flair to win all games. Its not difficult to bring stability, so do it rafa, do it

As an afterthought, players nowadays are alot fitter and stronger, so should be more than capable of coping with playing all the time.

Thats my opinion, and i hope others share my thoughts

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:51 pm

Judge wrote:Thats my opinion, and i hope others share my thoughts

The debates been raging on for 42 pages Judge....

I'd say that a fair few of us share the self same thoughts.

by **Judge** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:32 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
Judge wrote:Thats my opinion, and i hope others share my thoughts

The debates been raging on for 42 pages Judge....

I'd say that a fair few of us share the self same thoughts.

maybe, but ive wrote loads and im right

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:36 pm

Judge wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:
Judge wrote:Thats my opinion, and i hope others share my thoughts

The debates been raging on for 42 pages Judge....

I'd say that a fair few of us share the self same thoughts.

maybe, but ive wrote loads and im right

I must say that the length of your recent posts (**** edited as requested!****

) on the subject had me jaw on the floor!

Judge for mod!
:;

by **Judge** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:37 pm

make that posts, as in plural matey. Not just the one fella

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:38 am

Anybody know how much rotation we've done since the Inter game?

Hint for Bob....

Only kidding mate.

But performances have improved of late hasn't it.....

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:38 am

*** Edit. Apologies. Double post ***

by **bigmick** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:58 am

Well even though we've appeared to rotate less in the last couple of months (infact I'd be amazed if that's not the case) I wouldn't be putting the recent run down to any lack of rotation, much as I'd like to. I think it'd take a little longer with a barely changing team before we'd really begin to see any benefits in cohesion etc.

I think a few things are fairly obvious and beyond dispute such as the fact that Kuyt is in the best form for well over a year now he is been played out wide, and crucially the pressure of scoring a goal is now not on his shoulders.My profound wish from both his point of view and FWIW for the teams as well is that he is played continually out there to allow his devastated confidence to grow a little. It's equally obvious that the three guys in central midfield are beginning to find some sort of cohesive pattern and there is definately mileage in keeping the system as is. Despite palpably obviously not being a left-winger, Babel too is beginning to look like he thinks he belongs while Torres just goes from strength to strength.

All that said, and it sounds funny considering we won the match 4-0, I wasn't overly impressed with our display against West Ham. We spent long passages of the game searching for any rhythm and couldn't it seemed to me decide whether to press the football all around the pitch or just within our own half. FWIW I like us to play high tempo as I think in Gerrard and Masherano we have the players to make it work, and if it was up to me I'd press all around the pitch, particularly at home.

Things are improving though. Like many I found the rotation of Aurelio after he had finally scored a goal baffling and pointless, although I thought the selection of Skyrtel and Carragher made sense given Hyppia's number of games this season. To be perfectly honest though, this isn't the first time this season we've strung results together and gone on a run. I would have thought we'll beat Newcastle as well without too much fuss, and then no doubt people will start waxing lyrical about how great the whole thing is. The truth is though that we have shown at various stages of the season that we have it within us to be a very serious football team indeed. nfortunately however, it is the bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiips which follow each defeat which have done for us. For some reason our confidence appears incredibly fragile, capable of being shattered by one dodgy decision or one unlucky miss. Some of us think that the manager changing the team to the extent which he does doesn't help one iota. It's certainly a more credible reason than blaming it on transfer funds, or experience of the manager and then forgetting about the whole idea once we've won a couple.

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