Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:I was just wondering whether anybody else thought Rafa's recent comments on the "R" issue were a little odd.

bigmick wrote:I was just wondering whether anybody else thought Rafa's recent comments on the "R" issue were a little odd. He said words to the effect that now we are only involved in competing for two trophies, he could see players playing more of the games with less rotation. So now we are out of the Carling Cup (in which he usually fields a reserve team anyhow) and the FA Cup, in which to win it requires about six games, many of which are against lower league opposition and should be certainties (I know) then rotation is to be dropped? So this is what the great experiment has been all about these last four years, the five changes per match, so we could go all out for the Carling and FA Cups? I just don't get it I'm sorry.

If we are dropping it becuase Rafa style will never ever work over here then fantastic, I'm all for it. But we're dropping it because we didn't get past Barnsley and Chelsea? If this is the case I hope we draw Man Utd Away in the third round of the FA Cup next season, and we can bring Djimi Traore back for one of the early rounds in the Carling Cup. That way we can get it out of the way nice and early and revert back to a conventional selection method. Feck me if we'd only ran into Arsenal a few rounds earlier last season in both cups it could all have been so different.

Rafa could hardly admit that he had read your posts on rotation Mick, and realised that he would never win the league with rotation "Rafa style" 

I think we can file these comments in the same category as Torres's problem of playing between the lines against defences that play deep. 

Sabre wrote:

bigmick wrote:I was just wondering whether anybody else thought Rafa's recent comments on the "R" issue were a little odd. He said words to the effect that now we are only involved in competing for two trophies, he could see players playing more of the games with less rotation. So now we are out of the Carling Cup (in which he usually fields a reserve team anyhow) and the FA Cup, in which to win it requires about six games, many of which are against lower league opposition and should be certainties (I know) then rotation is to be dropped? So this is what the great experiment has been all about these last four years, the five changes per match, so we could go all out for the Carling and FA Cups? I just don't get it I'm sorry.

If we are dropping it becuase Rafa style will never ever work over here then fantastic, I'm all for it. But we're dropping it because we didn't get past Barnsley and Chelsea? If this is the case I hope we draw Man Utd Away in the third round of the FA Cup next season, and we can bring Djimi Traore back for one of the early rounds in the Carling Cup. That way we can get it out of the way nice and early and revert back to a conventional selection method. Feck me if we'd only ran into Arsenal a few rounds earlier last season in both cups it could all have been so different.

Odd mate? it makes perfect sense. I mean it's what many of us have been defending all this time, so it may be bóllocks, but not odd because you have read the explanation before:

Rotation is a tool to face the problem of several top competitions, the more games you play, the more need of rotation there is. The less wednesday games there are, the less need of rotation there is.

Ideally, if you have one game per week, you don't need rotation at all, just selecting your best eleven for that match. For instance you can make a change comparing to the previous game because you know that the oppo left back is weak, and you think Kewell's game can do more harm to him than say, Riise. But rotation as a tool to keep the players fresh is less necessary if you're out of more competitions.

No rotationist would advocate for six changes between two league games if you are not playing on Europe or the cups.

Six changes only be understandable under a situation like this:

Game against Chelsea, you play the strongest Eleven

Game against Panionios in Greece, you rotate 6 players because you're able to beat them anyway (on paper)

Game against Manchester next sunday, you choose again your best eleven, and the team as a whole is more rested that if you had played the same eleven against Panionios.


But in normal circunstances, no rotation is needed. Just one or two changes if you feel that a certain player can do more harm than another you have at your disposal.

maguskwt wrote:ok now a cheeky question for mick if you don't mind...  ... let's say from now till the end of the season, rafa "repents" and doesnt' rotate anymore save for forced changes due to injury etc... and sometime in between he admits (albeit indirectly because he's proud) that perhaps maybe the premier league should be tackled with a settled side...and that he wouldn't be rotating 'rafa style' next season anymore... we finish 4th in the league and didn't win the CL either... would you still want rafa to be here next season?

Judge wrote:

Sabre wrote:

bigmick wrote:I was just wondering whether anybody else thought Rafa's recent comments on the "R" issue were a little odd. He said words to the effect that now we are only involved in competing for two trophies, he could see players playing more of the games with less rotation. So now we are out of the Carling Cup (in which he usually fields a reserve team anyhow) and the FA Cup, in which to win it requires about six games, many of which are against lower league opposition and should be certainties (I know) then rotation is to be dropped? So this is what the great experiment has been all about these last four years, the five changes per match, so we could go all out for the Carling and FA Cups? I just don't get it I'm sorry.

If we are dropping it becuase Rafa style will never ever work over here then fantastic, I'm all for it. But we're dropping it because we didn't get past Barnsley and Chelsea? If this is the case I hope we draw Man Utd Away in the third round of the FA Cup next season, and we can bring Djimi Traore back for one of the early rounds in the Carling Cup. That way we can get it out of the way nice and early and revert back to a conventional selection method. Feck me if we'd only ran into Arsenal a few rounds earlier last season in both cups it could all have been so different.

Odd mate? it makes perfect sense. I mean it's what many of us have been defending all this time, so it may be bóllocks, but not odd because you have read the explanation before:

Rotation is a tool to face the problem of several top competitions, the more games you play, the more need of rotation there is. The less wednesday games there are, the less need of rotation there is.

Ideally, if you have one game per week, you don't need rotation at all, just selecting your best eleven for that match. For instance you can make a change comparing to the previous game because you know that the oppo left back is weak, and you think Kewell's game can do more harm to him than say, Riise. But rotation as a tool to keep the players fresh is less necessary if you're out of more competitions.

No rotationist would advocate for six changes between two league games if you are not playing on Europe or the cups.

Six changes only be understandable under a situation like this:

Game against Chelsea, you play the strongest Eleven

Game against Panionios in Greece, you rotate 6 players because you're able to beat them anyway (on paper)

Game against Manchester next sunday, you choose again your best eleven, and the team as a whole is more rested that if you had played the same eleven against Panionios.


But in normal circunstances, no rotation is needed. Just one or two changes if you feel that a certain player can do more harm than another you have at your disposal.

The team is the one playing on the field, a squad is the total amount of first team players you have to choose from.
You should ALWAYS play the best eleven regardless of the oppo (barring injuries etc).

The best sides rotate the odd few (just like LFC did in the 70's and 80's). Its up to the fringe players to gel with a strong back bone of a squad that plays week in week out.

how can a team have cohesion, when its always being chopped and changed!! The simple answer is - it has not.

If you examine the league - it is a sustained challenge and therefore rotation clearly doesnt work, especially if you make wholesale changes.

In europe - this format is mainly based on one off matches, so therefore it is suited to rotation, as you will be playing an unfamiliar team to the oppo. Therefore, rafa uses that to ensure the oppo cant get the upper hand.

Before anyone squeals, ''what about the FA cup etc, thats a one off match''. I can tell you this. Much of the time we play the same sides anyway in a home competition, compared to those in europe. And i suspect, the home teams have the measure of us and exploit the rotation thing.

That would explain why rafa is brilliant in europe and cack in the home domestic scene.

My advice would be to scrap the wholesale rotation of players and form a solid team that plays week in week out, and only change the odd one or two (like subs). Therefore, you create ateam that understands each other, much like a smooth running engine - IT WILL NOT FALTER

I challange anyone to disagree with my rational reasoning of everything rotational

Judge wrote:I challange anyone to disagree with my rational reasoning of everything rotational

I have to recover from the shock first. That must have been your longest footie post since 2004. 

Once I recover from the shock, I'll comment your post (actually I'm going to have lunch).

See you in the afternoon, this afternoon promises to be calm at work.

Judge wrote:

Sabre wrote:

bigmick wrote:I was just wondering whether anybody else thought Rafa's recent comments on the "R" issue were a little odd. He said words to the effect that now we are only involved in competing for two trophies, he could see players playing more of the games with less rotation. So now we are out of the Carling Cup (in which he usually fields a reserve team anyhow) and the FA Cup, in which to win it requires about six games, many of which are against lower league opposition and should be certainties (I know) then rotation is to be dropped? So this is what the great experiment has been all about these last four years, the five changes per match, so we could go all out for the Carling and FA Cups? I just don't get it I'm sorry.

If we are dropping it becuase Rafa style will never ever work over here then fantastic, I'm all for it. But we're dropping it because we didn't get past Barnsley and Chelsea? If this is the case I hope we draw Man Utd Away in the third round of the FA Cup next season, and we can bring Djimi Traore back for one of the early rounds in the Carling Cup. That way we can get it out of the way nice and early and revert back to a conventional selection method. Feck me if we'd only ran into Arsenal a few rounds earlier last season in both cups it could all have been so different.

Odd mate? it makes perfect sense. I mean it's what many of us have been defending all this time, so it may be bóllocks, but not odd because you have read the explanation before:

Rotation is a tool to face the problem of several top competitions, the more games you play, the more need of rotation there is. The less wednesday games there are, the less need of rotation there is.

Ideally, if you have one game per week, you don't need rotation at all, just selecting your best eleven for that match. For instance you can make a change comparing to the previous game because you know that the oppo left back is weak, and you think Kewell's game can do more harm to him than say, Riise. But rotation as a tool to keep the players fresh is less necessary if you're out of more competitions.

No rotationist would advocate for six changes between two league games if you are not playing on Europe or the cups.

Six changes only be understandable under a situation like this:

Game against Chelsea, you play the strongest Eleven

Game against Panionios in Greece, you rotate 6 players because you're able to beat them anyway (on paper)

Game against Manchester next sunday, you choose again your best eleven, and the team as a whole is more rested that if you had played the same eleven against Panionios.


But in normal circunstances, no rotation is needed. Just one or two changes if you feel that a certain player can do more harm than another you have at your disposal.

The team is the one playing on the field, a squad is the total amount of first team players you have to choose from.
You should ALWAYS play the best eleven regardless of the oppo (barring injuries etc).

The best sides rotate the odd few (just like LFC did in the 70's and 80's). Its up to the fringe players to gel with a strong back bone of a squad that plays week in week out.

how can a team have cohesion, when its always being chopped and changed!! The simple answer is - it has not.

If you examine the league - it is a sustained challenge and therefore rotation clearly doesnt work, especially if you make wholesale changes.

In europe - this format is mainly based on one off matches, so therefore it is suited to rotation, as you will be playing an unfamiliar team to the oppo. Therefore, rafa uses that to ensure the oppo cant get the upper hand.

Before anyone squeals, ''what about the FA cup etc, thats a one off match''. I can tell you this. Much of the time we play the same sides anyway in a home competition, compared to those in europe. And i suspect, the home teams have the measure of us and exploit the rotation thing.

That would explain why rafa is brilliant in europe and cack in the home domestic scene.

My advice would be to scrap the wholesale rotation of players and form a solid team that plays week in week out, and only change the odd one or two (like subs). Therefore, you create ateam that understands each other, much like a smooth running engine - IT WILL NOT FALTER

I challange anyone to disagree with my rational reasoning of everything rotational

cracker of a post mate . top top read . 

Sabre wrote:

Judge wrote:I challange anyone to disagree with my rational reasoning of everything rotational

I have to recover from the shock first. That must have been your longest footie post since 2004. 

Once I recover from the shock, I'll comment your post (actually I'm going to have lunch).

See you in the afternoon, this afternoon promises to be calm at work.

  @ sabre

and also cheers toffeehater