Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:54 am

There's no question that these days the Brian Clough approach of scaring the sh!t out of the players aint gonna work too well. They're all on long term deals and are millionaires, so you ain't gonna bully them by grabbing them by the scruff of the neck. Equally, Peewee is right when he points out that the vasrt majority of players don't feel a special affinity for the clubs they play for, fans mistake professional pride and a simple will to win with an allegiance to the shirt.

Probably the best motivator of all is the one which is used at the really successful clubs, shape up or be shipped out to a less successful club, with less glory, medals, adulation etc etc. Unfortunately when you are in the position which we are in, the likes of Masherano, Gerrard, Alonso could probably earn more money and have more success elsewhere. This is where motivational abilities come into it, particularly for the non local players. Managers need to be able to extract the last ounce of effort and ability out of players, some can do it better than others. Sometimes, if a manager posesses this ability in spades it can overcome a lack of the optimim talent in other directions. Arguably, motivational capabilities supercede tactical brilliance and it is for this reason many posters would prefer to see Mourinho appointed rahter than sticking with Rafa.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:56 am

Kharhaz wrote:They are playing for LFC. If the manager cannot remind them who they are playing for we all have no chance.

Just for a second there mate, around that bit where you said "if the manager cannot remind them who they are playing for ........." I thought we had agreement. Alas no though, and fair play to you for sticking to your guns.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:01 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:
peewee wrote:people forget, a lot of these players have no affinity to LFC, I know we would all play for free as we support them, but these players, its just a job and they would happily work elsewhere if the money was better

Surely thats when the man management side comes in, giving the players the desire to give of their best and play to their full potential? Getting them believing the team comes first.

exactly mate, benitez has no idea when it comes to this, he sees the players purely as commodities

And yet, not 15 minutes previously, you said:

"people forget, a lot of these players have no affinity to LFC, I know we would all play for free as we support them, but these players, its just a job and they would happily work elsewhere if the money was better".

Make up your mind, eh?

I think thats the point Lando. Take for example your mate Xabi, he's having a rough time at the minute, not playing well and struggling to get in the team. He could quite easily settle for a place on the bench picking up his wad of cash until he is sold to another club. He needs a reason to stay and fight for his position and to regain his form. He could get just as much at Barca or Madrid or Milan, so it has to be something else. Pride, teamspirit, self respect, ambition, to play to the best he possibly can, thats were man management comes in to encourage those feelings and to prevent him asking himself why should he bother.

If he is treated like a commodity, he will just think about the money and have little or no regard for the team and his team mates. When he goes out to play his performances will deteriorate without the drive and motivation of trying to win games as they will no longer really matter.

In the old days they played for their wages, now they have different incentives. FFS most of them could retire tomorrow and never be short of a few quid.

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:02 am

bigmick wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:They are playing for LFC. If the manager cannot remind them who they are playing for we all have no chance.

Just for a second there mate, around that bit where you said "if the manager cannot remind them who they are playing for ........." I thought we had agreement. Alas no though, and fair play to you for sticking to your guns.

If I spent my days agreeing with the yes men I would be a robot, alas im not, forever and always LFC are my first answer, then my missus, then then my kids, never will I answer to yes men.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:07 am

Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:
peewee wrote:people forget, a lot of these players have no affinity to LFC, I know we would all play for free as we support them, but these players, its just a job and they would happily work elsewhere if the money was better

Surely thats when the man management side comes in, giving the players the desire to give of their best and play to their full potential? Getting them believing the team comes first.

They are playing for LFC. If the manager cannot remind them who they are playing for we all have no chance.

I think the modern player needs a little more than the fact that they are playing for Liverpool to inspire them. Most of them have no real affinity for the club when they come, especially from abroad, and most don't stop around long enough to gain it.

Which is probably one of the reasons we do much better in Europe than in the league. The league to them is secondary, maybe if they were in their own countries league it would have more meaning.

If Gerrard went to Germany do you think winning the German league would have the same meaning for him as winning the prem?

That why you need good man management and motivational skills.

by **flombs** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:09 am

At the end of the day we are all going to stick to what we first believed as right, and there is nothing wrong with that. To see people supporting LFC turn on each other is just plain stupido. The one thing we can all agree on is that there is something seriously wrong, figuring what, is whats causing strife amongst most of the posters on here.

But, when i see something wrong i want it fixed, and most of the time it requires a new part, or serious reworking with the original parts.

I think LFC needs some serious reworking within the establishment and team but also changing of players and maybe management.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:46 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:
peewee wrote:people forget, a lot of these players have no affinity to LFC, I know we would all play for free as we support them, but these players, its just a job and they would happily work elsewhere if the money was better

Surely thats when the man management side comes in, giving the players the desire to give of their best and play to their full potential? Getting them believing the team comes first.

exactly mate, benitez has no idea when it comes to this, he sees the players purely as commodities

And yet, not 15 minutes previously, you said:

"people forget, a lot of these players have no affinity to LFC, I know we would all play for free as we support them, but these players, its just a job and they would happily work elsewhere if the money was better".

Make up your mind, eh?

and my contradiction is where exactly?

seems you are trying to make a point when there is no point to make, will your fascination with me ever end :laugh:

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:43 am

Kharhaz wrote:Dont lower yourself lando is the only advice I can give. Let them express there opinions, they have no given facts to back them self up, they can only point back to shankly and paisley and houllier. Let them have there moment, for thats all it is, a moment.

F.uck right off.

I've backed my decent posts up all season with the likes of Lando, its gone beyond that now.

Anyway who the f.uck are you to take the moral high ground about this, if you know anything about this forum you'll no that Lando is the king of insults if anyone disagrees with him.

You want facts, rotation has f.ucked up any chance of challenging for the title, granted that Yanks havent helped with this debacle, but has Rafa mouthing off in the press.

We go 2 or three one down at Reading and Rafa conceeds defeat by taking off Gerrard and Torres, never witnessed anything like that before from a Pool manager.

Where are win in the league right now, are we any better off or closer to challenging our rivals ?

Take a look at Rafas record against the top three, its appalling!

We got knocked out of the FA cup against Barnsley, stuggled to beat Luton and Havant and Waterlooville in the same competition.

We STILL need some quality wingers, Rafas just bought average players to fill in their, Babel is a striekr and plays on the wing ?

THose are just some of the FACTS

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:45 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Dont lower yourself lando is the only advice I can give. Let them express there opinions, they have no given facts to back them self up, they can only point back to shankly and paisley and houllier. Let them have there moment, for thats all it is, a moment.

Well there is a bright side - they'll be dead one day.

And for bringing you into this world, so will your Mum someday.

by **dawson99** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:03 am

the only important factor here is that we are not playing well, and havent for months...

we need a change, and if it means a new manager with a fresh vision what true liverpool fan wouldnt want that compared to what we are having to watch at the moment?

ive said to lando, id be more than happy for Rafa to stay if he would get himself a decent number 2 and accept that he cant run the whole ship on his own, but i cant see him doing this

by **The_Rock** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:31 am

Rafa Benitez not always on target with strikers

By Tim Rich
Last Updated: 7:42am GMT 19/02/2008

It was perhaps fitting that Gerard Houllier should have gone into the Liverpool dressing room after their victory over AC Milan in 2005 because it was his team that had won.

Of the side that began the Istanbul final, only two men, Xabi Alonso and Luis Garcia, had been bought by Benitez and although seven of the starting line-up are still at Anfield, four others plus the seven on the substitutes' bench have gone. Trying to find a buyer who would pay good money for these players was, said Benitez, one of his hardest tasks.

Since then, he has spent a net £55 million on players, £18.6m more than Manchester United in the same period and Liverpool are back where they were in 2005.

They lost to lower-league opposition in the FA Cup three years ago and did so again on Saturday. They are also struggling against Everton for the fourth and final Champions League spot and their home form has disintegrated - in 2005 they were hopeless away from Anfield. Then, as now, there is just the European Cup left.

It would be unfair to compare Benitez's transfer record directly with Sir Alex Ferguson's, partly because Liverpool were rebuilding from a lower base and also because Manchester United spent lavishly before the 2005 European Cup final. The question Benitez must answer is: has the investment made any difference?

Of the 32 transfers Benitez has conducted, 19 players either spoke Spanish or had played in La Liga and their collective cost to Liverpool was £68.85m, leading one senior player to remark there was no point joining Real Madrid because he was already playing for a Spanish club.

This was to be expected since Benitez was exploiting the market he knew. In Houllier's six years on Merseyside he spent £52m on French-speaking players but not one of them could be counted an unqualified success.

Benitez has done far better. His money has brought a strong spine to the side - Jose Reina, Daniel Agger, Javier Mascherano, Xabi Alonso and Fernando Torres have all justified their manager's money.

However only Torres produces goals and that for a fee of £26.5m. When it comes to cheaper forwards, Benitez has come unstuck. Nearly £29m got him Fernando Morientes, Peter Crouch, Craig Bellamy and Dirk Kuyt. Between them they have scored 49 times for Liverpool.

Rafa's wheeling and dealing

IN

Fernando Torres £26.5m
Ryan Babel £11.5m
Xabi Alonso £10.5m
Dirk Kuyt £9m
Peter Couch £7m
Jermaine Pennant £6.7m
Fernando Morientes £6.3m
Jose Reina £6m
Martin Skrtel £6m
Craig Bellamy £6m
Luis Garcia £6m
Daniel Agger £5.8m
Mohamed Sissoko £5.6m
Yossi Benayoun £5m
Lucas Leiva £5m
Mark Gonzalez £4.5m
Antonio Nunez £3m
Alvaro Arbeloa £2.6m
Gabriel Paletta £2m
Josemi £2m
Jan Kromkamp £2m
Scott Carson £750,000

Total: £139.75m

A £17m deal for Javier Mascherano is still pending

OUT

Mohamed Sissoko £9.7m
Michael Owen £8m
Craig Bellamy £7.5m
Milan Baros £6.5m
Djibril Cisse £6m
Mark Gonzalez £4.2m
Didi Hamann £400k
Luis Garcia £4m
Fernando Morientes £3m
Florent Sinama-Pongolle £2.7m
Danny Murphy £2.5m
Djimi Traore £2m
Jan Kromkamp £1.5m
Stephen Warnock £1.5m
Darren Potter £250,000

Total: £58.25m

Net loss: £81.5m

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport....519.xml

by **andy_g** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:50 am

i have become comfortably numb

by **hishhish** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:58 am

We are having patchy (actually poor) form. Rafa is still the best person to come to the club for a long time, and I still see the potential for improvement. People have to be patient. Throwing the towel in now is the worst thing to do.
Stick with the manager.
I cannot believe people on this forum who have gone so frantic about winning the league. Don't they know we are still a top team and the most feared in Europe (I think).
Relax people, this is a long haul not a short fix.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:01 am

andy_g wrote:i have become comfortably numb

Tellin yer its like coming down off a trip lately

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:12 am

hishhish wrote:We are having patchy (actually poor) form. Rafa is still the best person to come to the club for a long time, and I still see the potential for improvement. People have to be patient. Throwing the towel in now is the worst thing to do.
Stick with the manager.
I cannot believe people on this forum who have gone so frantic about winning the league. Don't they know we are still a top team and the most feared in Europe (I think).
Relax people, this is a long haul not a short fix.

You're in for it now.

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