Liverpool FC Forum

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:07 pm

Anyone who looks at our record under Benitez with scorn is a first-rate imbecile.

A season doesn't mean "the league." A season means "Every competition entered."

You can't separate them and say "If it weren't for the CL, we'd be rubbish", or "Had we not won the FA Cup, the season would've been a failure", or "If we hadn't reached the CL final, we'd be sh*t" - it's the logic of a two-year old child.

Grow up, you bleating benders.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:07 pm

redsince2001 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redsince2001 wrote:yeah but now hickey is keeping quiet

Handy excuse there mate. But if we lose to Inter (not going to happen we know) but if, no doubt the yanks will take the blame.

sure .. their stupid actions are having long lastings repurcussions on this club as you can see....... you cant escape your past mate

So if we win, it's down to Benitez and the yanks don't affect him. If we lose then it's all down to what the yanks have done to the club

by **redtrader74** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:09 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:This is our bad season? What was last year then, and Benitez' first year? 37 points behind in 04/05 and 21 last year. They just average seasons are they? Forget a good cup run in Europe, what's he done in the league? We got rid of Houllier because he COULDN'T win us the league (the one thing EVERY Liverpool fans wants more than anything) Benitez is proven he can't win us the league either, so he has to go.

FFS you are either on a wind up, or thick, the season has four competitions, not ONE. We have done well OVERALL in each of the past 3 Years, that is FACT. Go on tell me the league is our bread and butter, blah blah blah.

We did well in all cup competitions under Houllier yet he's given a hard time, ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO LOVE BENITEZ

any difference?

I'm sure Houllier was given a bad time by the fickle crew from day one, as i said easy to criticise, and add a proviso, I'd love him to prove me wrong. If i could be bothered i'm sure theres a thread along the lines of ' We'll never win the League with Gerard style long ball' around Sept 2000.

I'm sure there was those threads, and look, we NEVER won the league under Houllier. Likewise we'll NEVER win the league under Benitez.

When people say Liverpool fans are knowledgeable it's because we know when things are not going to happen. We know it's not going to happen under Benitez, in the league. If you and the rest who think along your lines are happy being a cup team, then all credit to you. I'm not. I'm interested in winning the league title back, so I need a new manager in charge of this club.

It must have gone over your head, my point was the thread was probably started in Sept 2000. Liverpool fans being knowledgeable yeah right i suppose thats why we all agree then???

I'm not happy being a Cup team, i'm just realistic, i just accept that the task to overhaul our main rivals would take time, to achieve our goals may mean set backs along the way sometimes, i'm not going to harp on about the past, and how we did it in the good ol' days, because whats done is done. I'm afraid that if we turn into impatient and unrealistic supporters we will be changing managers every two years and become a Club that USED to win things, I believe in stability, and building. I understand that to work under the conditions of this season would have been difficult for all concerned, and if you think that it wouldn't then you have no idea.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:09 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Anyone who looks at our record under Benitez with scorn is a first-rate imbecile.

A season doesn't mean "the league." A season means "Every competition entered."

You can't separate them and say "If it weren't for the CL", or "Had we not won the FA Cup", or "If we hadn't reached the CL final... we'd be sh*t" - it's the logic of a two-year old child.

Grow up, you bleating benders.

So based on that, Houllie is a legend as he won 6 trophies (if you include the Charity Shield and Super Cup like Benitez does)

Houllier is a greater manager than Benitez, based on that theory. Well done Gerard.

by **redsince2001** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:09 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redsince2001 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
burjennio wrote:
edtrader74 Posted on Feb. 17 2008,15:38Lack of reaction? Bollox, there has not been a lack of reaction from certain poster all through the season, calling for the managers head at every available chance, boring us into a coma with the same repetitive digs, taking the p!ss out of OUR manager and pontificating that what he's achieved is irrelevant because we have not won the League yet.

Maybe some of us were upset at the result and couldn't stomach reading the forum straight afterwards because we all know the same purile abuse and sarcasm would be rife.(its so easy to criticise, and then be overjoyed with a self satisfying post to say i was right all along, well done, gold star.)

Nobody who supports Rafa has said that this is anything but a poor season, but looking for answers, thinking outside of the box, assessing the size of the task means that you 'wear rose-tinted specs' or are 'pro Rafa' etc.etc. well f uck off , its a bad season, thats all, not the end of the world, i will let Rafa have one because IMO this will be his first poor season, OVERALL, not individually in the league, or CL, or League cup. As i see it the repercussions of what we know about G&H and whatever else that may be going on behind the scenes has obviously had an effect on our team, IT HAS TO HAVE HAD, IT IS HUMAN NATURE, and to think otherwise is retarded.

Regarding the game, i'm lost for words really, we had lots of attempts, and chances and the game should have been beyond doubt, the fact that we made so many openings was a good thing, why we couldn't finish them i don't know, i suppose we could blame Rafa for that too.

Top post mate, but it'll fall on deaf ears in here. Its the new 1st law of football "blame the manager"

Benitez missed all those easy chances yesterday to put the game out of reach didnt he, or was that the Kuyt, Crouch and the rest?

It was a freak result, the keeper had a stormer and we missed loads of chances, it still hurts but get over it and STOP the b1tchin

Benitez talks about missed chances by Kuyt and Crouch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Benitez who bought these prolific forwards?

ok . so lets say now if kuyt or crouch hits /kills/hurts someone ?
its benitez's fault ? kuyt and crouch need to screw their heads on rite and start scoring goals !

Well that's not Benitez' fault because he didn't shape them as a person did he.

But he bought them, he plays them, he trains them. If he knows "we need to take our chances" then why is he persisting with players who can't take the chances. That he has to take the blame for.

kuyt scored 12 times in the league last season. most of the time playing alone upfront .unfortunately he is going through a very bad patch of form this season and his father's demise seems to have had a great affect on him as a player .
why is it rafa's fault that kuyt is gone into a shell ??

by **redsince2001** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:11 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:This is our bad season? What was last year then, and Benitez' first year? 37 points behind in 04/05 and 21 last year. They just average seasons are they? Forget a good cup run in Europe, what's he done in the league? We got rid of Houllier because he COULDN'T win us the league (the one thing EVERY Liverpool fans wants more than anything) Benitez is proven he can't win us the league either, so he has to go.

FFS you are either on a wind up, or thick, the season has four competitions, not ONE. We have done well OVERALL in each of the past 3 Years, that is FACT. Go on tell me the league is our bread and butter, blah blah blah.

We did well in all cup competitions under Houllier yet he's given a hard time, ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO LOVE BENITEZ

any difference?

I'm sure Houllier was given a bad time by the fickle crew from day one, as i said easy to criticise, and add a proviso, I'd love him to prove me wrong. If i could be bothered i'm sure theres a thread along the lines of ' We'll never win the League with Gerard style long ball' around Sept 2000.

I'm sure there was those threads, and look, we NEVER won the league under Houllier. Likewise we'll NEVER win the league under Benitez.

When people say Liverpool fans are knowledgeable it's because we know when things are not going to happen. We know it's not going to happen under Benitez, in the league. If you and the rest who think along your lines are happy being a cup team, then all credit to you. I'm not. I'm interested in winning the league title back, so I need a new manager in charge of this club.

It must have gone over your head, my point was the thread was probably started in Sept 2000. Liverpool fans being knowledgeable yeah right i suppose thats why we all agree then???

I'm not happy being a Cup team, i'm just realistic, i just accept that the task to overhaul our main rivals would take time, to achieve our goals may mean set backs along the way sometimes, i'm not going to harp on about the past, and how we did it in the good ol' days, because whats done is done. I'm afraid that if we turn into impatient and unrealistic supporters we will be changing managers every two years and become a Club that USED to win things, I believe in stability, and building. I understand that to work under the conditions of this season would have been difficult for all concerned, and if you think that it wouldn't then you have no idea.

by **lakes10** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:15 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Anyone who looks at our record under Benitez with scorn is a first-rate imbecile.

A season doesn't mean "the league." A season means "Every competition entered."

You can't separate them and say "If it weren't for the CL, we'd be rubbish", or "Had we not won the FA Cup, the season would've been a failure", or "If we hadn't reached the CL final, we'd be sh*t" - it's the logic of a two-year old child.

Grow up, you bleating benders.

but what has he done in the league since he has been our manager.??

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:15 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:This is our bad season? What was last year then, and Benitez' first year? 37 points behind in 04/05 and 21 last year. They just average seasons are they? Forget a good cup run in Europe, what's he done in the league? We got rid of Houllier because he COULDN'T win us the league (the one thing EVERY Liverpool fans wants more than anything) Benitez is proven he can't win us the league either, so he has to go.

FFS you are either on a wind up, or thick, the season has four competitions, not ONE. We have done well OVERALL in each of the past 3 Years, that is FACT. Go on tell me the league is our bread and butter, blah blah blah.

We did well in all cup competitions under Houllier yet he's given a hard time, ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO LOVE BENITEZ

any difference?

I'm sure Houllier was given a bad time by the fickle crew from day one, as i said easy to criticise, and add a proviso, I'd love him to prove me wrong. If i could be bothered i'm sure theres a thread along the lines of ' We'll never win the League with Gerard style long ball' around Sept 2000.

I'm sure there was those threads, and look, we NEVER won the league under Houllier. Likewise we'll NEVER win the league under Benitez.

When people say Liverpool fans are knowledgeable it's because we know when things are not going to happen. We know it's not going to happen under Benitez, in the league. If you and the rest who think along your lines are happy being a cup team, then all credit to you. I'm not. I'm interested in winning the league title back, so I need a new manager in charge of this club.

It must have gone over your head, my point was the thread was probably started in Sept 2000. Liverpool fans being knowledgeable yeah right i suppose thats why we all agree then???

I'm not happy being a Cup team, i'm just realistic, i just accept that the task to overhaul our main rivals would take time, to achieve our goals may mean set backs along the way sometimes, i'm not going to harp on about the past, and how we did it in the good ol' days, because whats done is done. I'm afraid that if we turn into impatient and unrealistic supporters we will be changing managers every two years and become a Club that USED to win things, I believe in stability, and building. I understand that to work under the conditions of this season would have been difficult for all concerned, and if you think that it wouldn't then you have no idea.

OK so yet again blame the yanks. What's his excuse for the other years? Oh I remember time isn't it. Then it's all down to money, which I've clearly stated isn't the case as there's obviously teams who've spent more than us but are behind us. Others who we have spent less and are above us. Good excuse money

Time, Sven has been managing City for three years less than Benitez, and there on level points.....time eh?

The owners have had an affect, but those who lay all the blame on him are just blinded by affection for Benitez. He has to take the blame. We all work under difficult circumstances, but that's how the world runs.

As for being realistic, the realistic look at this season WAS TO CHALLENGE. We're not even close to doing that. And finally on us being intelligent, those who want Benitez to stay again are being blinded by shear affection for him, which I can fully understand, but you have to admit he's not up to winning the league, whether he's here for 5 more months or 5 million more months. He still won't win us the league.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:16 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Anyone who looks at our record under Benitez with scorn is a first-rate imbecile.

A season doesn't mean "the league." A season means "Every competition entered."

You can't separate them and say "If it weren't for the CL", or "Had we not won the FA Cup", or "If we hadn't reached the CL final... we'd be sh*t" - it's the logic of a two-year old child.

Grow up, you bleating benders.

So based on that, Houllie is a legend as he won 6 trophies (if you include the Charity Shield and Super Cup like Benitez does)

Houllier is a greater manager than Benitez, based on that theory. Well done Gerard.

Firstly, most of those trophies were won in the one season. So that's 2 good seasons, (as we won 5 one year, and 1 another).

Secondly, Houllier had at his disposal Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Gerrard, Carragher, Paul Ince and Brad Friedel.

He also had a sh*t-load of money to throw at the team, without the need to sell first. He also didn't have Chelsea's mega-bucks to compete with.

Lastly, the cups Houllier won, while great for what they were, were never on a par with Istanbul.

by **redsince2001** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:17 pm

5th - with a sh.it squad
3rd
3rd

mind you the two teams above us in the last two seasons have invested sh.itloads more on players compared to which our net outlay is nothing .

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:17 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Anyone who looks at our record under Benitez with scorn is a first-rate imbecile.

A season doesn't mean "the league." A season means "Every competition entered."

You can't separate them and say "If it weren't for the CL, we'd be rubbish", or "Had we not won the FA Cup, the season would've been a failure", or "If we hadn't reached the CL final, we'd be sh*t" - it's the logic of a two-year old child.

Grow up, you bleating benders.

but what has he done in the league since he has been our manager.??

Record points total?

Most consecutive wins?

Most clean sheets?

Nah - not a great record, is it?

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:18 pm

lakes10 wrote:NANNY, there are two camps when it comes to Rafa.

camp one

happy to just sit back and win the fa cup or CL every few years and do nothing in the prem.

Camp two

Play good football each week, close the cap on the top teams, try to win the Prem at all cost, fa cup and CL will come in time but No 1 is the prem.

i am in camp two,
Rafa has done nothing in the prem in 4 years, how many points have we takem from the top 3 in the pream in the last 4 years?

say's it realy.

No, no, no, mate...that's not it at all. There are two camps but it shakes out like this:

Camp One still has faith in Rafa

Camp Two doesn't

What that means is that those of us in Camp One still feel that, despite mounting evidence to the contrary (I freely admit), Rafa has the capacity to win us the league. We don't just want cup success and the only reason we refer to the cups is because, to us, they demonstrate that Rafa can get the best out of players and put silverware in the cabinet. To us in Camp One, those cups have cemented our faith in the man and we are prepared to be a bit more patient with him in the hopes that he'll bring us the league.

For those of you in Camp Two, it seems clear that you have lost that faith in the man. A very few of you never had it in the first place and that's your prerogative. Many of you, however, did have tremendous faith in the man at one point but have now decided that he's no longer up to the task of bringing us the league. Again, that's your prerogative. As I've admitted, you've got mounting evidence on your side as well as mounting backing from fellow supporters. I'd even go so far as to say that you will almost certainly get your wish because I expect Rafa will be off, one way or the other, by season's end at the latest.

To answer Mick's initial question, IMO, as a debate, this "Rafa - stay or go?" discussion is over. We in Camp One will never convince you in Camp Two that you're wrong at this stage (and vice versa, to be fair). You refute any evidence we might wish to present and you clearly don't share the faith that underlies it all for us, so what's the point in arguing about it? That's why a lot of us are much quieter these days: we can't be a.rsed debating the issue when so many minds are already made up. I just hope that we can keep any discussion that arises civil. This place has already seen enough flame wars in the past few months.

by **lakes10** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:19 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Anyone who looks at our record under Benitez with scorn is a first-rate imbecile.

A season doesn't mean "the league." A season means "Every competition entered."

You can't separate them and say "If it weren't for the CL, we'd be rubbish", or "Had we not won the FA Cup, the season would've been a failure", or "If we hadn't reached the CL final, we'd be sh*t" - it's the logic of a two-year old child.

Grow up, you bleating benders.

but what has he done in the league since he has been our manager.??

Record points total?

Most consecutive wins?

Most clean sheets?

Nah - not a great record, is it?

no , not when still end up 4th....or 5th

by **redtrader74** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:19 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redsince2001 wrote:come on be reasonable ..calm down !
rafa is a good manager .
this could have been our season ,atleast i think we could have been close to the top this time BUT for MR HICKS

So Mr Hick's involvement wasn't a problem when we qualified from our group in Europe. If we beat Inter and go on and win the European Cup this season, will Mr Hick's of problems still affected the club or will it just be how great a manager Benitez is because he could put it to the back of his mind. If he can put it to the back of his mind, there's no excuse for the league form.

Silly arguement, if you were under undue pressure at work that doesn't neccessarily mean that you will be affected the same each day. Some days you may put it to the back of your mind some not, over the course of time your sub-ordinates would also react to you differently.

by **dawson99** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:19 pm

still get the shivers when i see ince in a liverpool top lol.

we are never gonna agree. we have about 10 threads all saying the same thing. we need to merge all these threads together.

what i think:

get an assistant manager or get rid of rafa. that simple

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It's incredible really, - The lack of reaction on here.

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