Liverpool FC Forum

by **Torres25** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 pm

Im devastated about gettin knockec out.................but hopefully now we can field or strongest team 4 all the prem & cl games....no more resting players now coz then what was the point in resting them in the first place

4 some insane reason i think were gonna go all the way in the CL & get 4th place..call me

but thats what i believe

YNWA

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:16 pm

bigmick wrote:Amazing really when you think about it isn't it? We lose at Home in the fifth round of the FA Cup to Barnsley, and there is barely a wimper on the forum aside from the bleatings of a few wind-up merchants.

Had it been in the third round while we were going all out for the title and had just fielded a team of reserves, it might have been kind of OK. Had the draw still been full of Premiership teams, waiting to ambush us at the next stage it would have been slightly more bearable. But here we were, in one of the two competitions we could possibly win and in the one out of the two in which gave us easily the biggest opportunity, and we lost, at home, to Barnsley.

So why the under-reaction? Well there are a number of reasons. I guess the main one is that most of the arguments have been done to death already. I must say I can hardly be bothered coming on here and debating when you know that regardless of what has happened, irrespective of how low we have stumbled there is a faction on the forum who will stick to their guns on Rafa no matter what. It'll be our lack of funds, the fact we approached Klinnsman in November, the Americans, the players who aren't trying, the injuries, the refs, the strikers and a thousand other things but whatever it is, it won't be the mananger that's for sure. Give him more time, four more years, knee-jerkers, Ooters, disloyal and all that comes pouring out every time. Then there is "so who is the alternative?" argument, blurted out at every turn. Quite why people think that a manager who has presided over a shambolic campaign in the league, an FA Cup exit at Home to Barnsley, an early exit in the Carling Cup and a scrape through the group stages in the Champions League despite being in a p!ss easy group would be a hugely difficult act to follow right now is beyond me but they throw the question out there with gay abandon anyhow. It's a bit like the poster who asked (in all seriousness) a couple of months back, who on Earth would be a better bet than Dirk Kuyt? Once I started I couldn't stop. I think I got to Cameron Jerome at Birmingham and started getting blisters on my fingers.

"Let him finish what he's started". I ask you, in all seriousness where will we be once he's finished what he's started? We went behind to Luton and needed an equaliser to take them to a replay where we won through. We went behind to Havent and waterlooville twice, at Home, before we eventually prevailed. We got dumped out, at home, to Barnsley in the next round.

If (as I think we will) we get knocked out by Inter Milan in this next round of the Champions League, what will it take before the fan club finally, eventually accept that maybe, perhaps, Rafa's methods aren't working? Is there any point in the future, ever, where people will think, "you know what, I think it might be time for a change". I ask, because quite simply the debate is over. We are getting worse and worse, more and more embarassing and it's even get to the point where we can lose at Home to Barnsly in the fifth round of the FA Cup and to be absolutely truthful, none of us are even surprised. Surely that's the clearest indicator of all.

Mick you know me, I like things to be correct, so lets give Benitez some credit, we didn't go behind to Luton. Crouch opened the scoring then Riise's own goal sent it to the replay which we won comfortably. So cut the fella some slack. Otherwise people will think you're anti Benitez.

by **Torres25** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:21 pm

oh an as 4 the people who say bring Mourinho in..........................u all forgettin how disrepectful hes been 2 this club ova the years & didnt he spend ova 200 million in creating a boring team that can grind out 1-0 wins..............i find it funny when people talk about the rafa has spent.............he spent 40 odd but had 2 recoup ova half that....man united spent 80 million on a squad that had about 8 players valued at 20-30 million, chelsea have spent well ova 200 million in the last 3 years & so much 4 them not splashin the cash this year in january alone theyve spent more then we have, Arsenal r the exception & i think wenger is a genuis but when he took ova arsenal they already had a team that were champions material & 2 players shy of winning it........Benitez came in 2 a squad with only 2 class players in it............yes the youth system they have is excellent but i think Rafas got us 2 a better stage in that department then arsene had done at arsenal at this stage in his career as manager

sorry i kijnda went off on 1 then.............but im new so just wanted 2 get my 2 bucks in

YNWA

by **TwelthMan** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:35 pm

Rafa has descended into Graham Taylor territory IMO! And do I not like that! I can only assume he wanted to lose yesterday. Why on earth not pick your best team for a game of football? Do you not value winnng? It makes no sense whatsoever. Had we started with Gerrard, Masch, Reina and even considered bringing Torress on even if not 100%, and not taking off your most dangerous player Babbel. What is the worst that could have happened? We would probably have won or i would take the replay over a defeat (doh!) and yes, risked some injuries - but worth the risk as we would have progressed in our only realistic chance of winning something half decent - the FA Cup. What are the chances that Masch, Gerrard or Reina would have been injured? Not that great and so what if one of them was? We can cover even if it is against Inter and at least we would have some momentum from the cup. In Rafa's mind he wants to stake all his chips on the champs league but this year it's a bridge too far and he will get what he deserves for his stupid philosophy - the fuc.king sack.

Remember when GH was away with illness - the team played it's best and most consistent stuff. I honestly think for the good of the team we get rid of him now or after tuesday and let anyone, even the cleanear take control for the run-in and the second leg with Inter.

Rafa is basically living off the glory of beating Juventus in 2005 - that was his defining moment. His tactics made us go 3-0 down to Milan and the players turned it around not Rafa. We have been sooooo lucky under him scraping thru here and there and we have never ever been convincing under him. Worst team to win champs league ever? Yes!

by **hello_red** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:36 pm

REDTILLDEAD wrote:
hello_red wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
The_Rock wrote:3)Bring in mourinho secretly and let me start his work now...(accessing the team and all and motivating the team to

Shocking. But I'm not surprised by this comment either. This sort of thing is absolutely unacceptable at our football club. I'm amazed that you can have a dig at the Yanks back when it all came out that they did this, then suggest it yourself.

6)Bang.......we win the premier and champions league for 2008/2009

This club is in the middle of a serious crisis right now. Jose Mourinho is not Jesus f*cking Christ. He cannot perform miracles and he certainly will not perform the one you have deluded yourself into thinking so within the space of a year. This club needs shock up, top-to-bottom. Christ, when are people going to wake up?!

My thoughts exactly!

Win the prem in curent circumstances? Your havin a laugh! To make a serious challenge that lasts all season and to make head way in the champs league takes stability! L:ike we had in the 70s and 80s and United in the 90s and now.

Current Liverpool fc will not win the prem even if we get in Jose Mourinho!

You hark on about loyalists but we are not as rose tinted as you think sir.

You have just reiterated what i have said in my previous post......the CURRENT Liverpool team are not good enough to win the prem....and that boils down to one man...Rafa! do you think mourinho would put up with half the sh*te that rafa plays/selects each week? Me thinks not, sorry but it needs someone like mourinho who has the vision to see through Rafa's "rose tinted glasses" and buy players who are proven class.

What I meant when I said 'current Liverpool fc' was the entire club from board to pitch is not good enough and no amount of manager changing and player swapping will change that.

by **mart** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:39 pm

If Rafa is sacked, its not going to be Mourinho that takes over. That should be pretty obvious.

by **mkingdom** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:45 pm

Is it just me who suspects Rafa is doing his best to get sacked???

He is a very proud man, and he thinks he's been shafted by the yanks. If he resigns, his "exit terms" are much worse then being sacked.

So could he possibly be engineering things so he is sacked, and can then return to Spain and back to another club where he feels he will be appreciated.

Yes, sounds weird....but what else explains our disastrous fall from grace, which started at exactly the same time as the "Klinsman" epsiode.

:oops:

by **Stev1eran** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:51 pm

Lets face it - we all know there are many problems in the club at the mo and the sh*t could hit the fan after tuesday nights game.
We have fighting at boardroom level with ownership/debt/communication.
We have a manager who is stubborn and will play the game exactly how he wants, it seems the only thing he respects is CL. The Premiership, FA Cup and League Cup all play second fiddle. His substitutions are quite baffling to even the most experienced pro's and supporters and his tactics are even worse. I think his motivational skills are lacking as well and dont believe he has a close relationship with our players, maybe thats were Pako helped out - I dont know.
We have international quality players who have struggled against championship, league 1 and even non league clubs and that cant be right, We are Liverpool FC we are, sorry were the best club in Europe - our history proves this. So these prima donna's who are paid vast sums of money that only the likes of your average fan can dream of, for performing twice a week so i'ts not much to ask that they have pride in the club, passion in their gut and the will to win. I havent seen that lately. Is it that they have lost all confidence? lets face it some will put in a good performance but it wont guarantee a place in the starting 11 for the next game. In order to play together as a team you have to work together,get to know the strength's and weaknesses of your team mates, you cant do this with constant rotation.
We have taken young players from all over the world but how many have had a run in the first team? yet instead of trying them out we buy some other from countries whose standard of football is not as good as our own, lets face it how many of us had heard of Itandje, Skrtel, Voranin etc. Surely it must be time to at least give some of these lads a bite of the cherry especially when the likes of Kuyt, Voranin are not performing. Remember a certain snotty Bluenosed youngster he got his chance at 17 and look at him now, who is to say we dont have someone similar in our reserve ranks.
I would also question our scouting policy - lets face we have signed more sh*te than good players for a long time now. Perhaps we should look at what is available in the lower leagues ,examples Luke Steele payed a blinder yesterday, also Luton's lad who played on the left he ran our defence ragged and put some really good crosses over - when was the last time Kewell did that ?
Anyway if we dont get anything out of tuesday night all we have left is 4th place lets face it that will be hard with teams like Everton, Villa,City Blackburn and West Ham all within 5-6 pts of 4th spot. We could even end up out of Europe next season god forbid so all we may have to play for is the prem and domestic cups, might not be too bad a thing apart from missing out on revenue and big name player transfers.
I cant predict the future, I dont know who will own us start of next season, how much will be spent on transfers, who will be the manager etc etc but what I do know is that we, the supporters will be there - this season, next season and every other season.
All I want is for my beloved team to play decent football, to be up there challenging at the top in January, and to give me something to brag about when with work collegues who support the bitters, skum etc
Now is that too much to ask for ?

by **The_Rock** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:58 pm

Torres25 wrote:oh an as 4 the people who say bring Mourinho in..........................u all forgettin how disrepectful hes been 2 this club ova the years & didnt he spend ova 200 million in creating a boring team that can grind out 1-0 wins..............i find it funny when people talk about the rafa has spent.............he spent 40 odd but had 2 recoup ova half that....man united spent 80 million on a squad that had about 8 players valued at 20-30 million, chelsea have spent well ova 200 million in the last 3 years & so much 4 them not splashin the cash this year in january alone theyve spent more then we have, Arsenal r the exception & i think wenger is a genuis but when he took ova arsenal they already had a team that were champions material & 2 players shy of winning it........Benitez came in 2 a squad with only 2 class players in it............yes the youth system they have is excellent but i think Rafas got us 2 a better stage in that department then arsene had done at arsenal at this stage in his career as manager

sorry i kijnda went off on 1 then.............but im new so just wanted 2 get my 2 bucks in

YNWA

Torres25..just wanna ask you a question..... have you been supporting this club only after rafa came onboard ? :glare:

by **Anfield rapper** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:24 pm

Nothing suprises me anymore.

I've been a critic of Rafa's since the away game at Portsmouth. But this time i think he got it right. I mean ok he leaves out a few players but we should still have enough quality to see this lot off at home. I blame the players for this one. We can't play Gerrard every game (we should try to in prem and CL games). There has to be a point where the team can actually function without Gerrard against lower league teams. We have a very big match this week and its imperetive we have the stongest side we can field.

Would Gerrard have made that much difference anyway? We had so many chances i doubt he would have. It was the strikers that let us down yet again. Torres is injured, surely we have another striker that can put away 1 chance in god knows how many. I don't mind when rafa rests players against lower league teams because i think its reasonable to expect the players coming in to be good enough. Its when he rests players in the prem that i get wound up. Ok we're not going to win the league this year but we are now in a right scrap for 4th.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:28 pm

NANNY RED wrote:1)
"If you analyse the last few years since I came to the club we have won four trophies and been in seven finals, including two in the Champions League," Benitez said in The People.

"How many other managers have done the same in their first three or four years at the club? People can talk about being successful but nobody is winning trophies every year.

"To do that is really difficult so I think we are in a really good position with a very young squad, so I have a lot of confidence in the team for the future."

2)
"When you are trying to work hard and do your job it is hard to accept the criticism that is always following me," Benitez added. "And, yes, it is a big surprise to see another manager in the background."

1)
4 trophies and 7 finals ? so we are counting the charity shield as a final ? the european super cup as a final ? ... where you receive a bye all the way to final :lookaround

I mean..no-one can take the champions league and FA cup from him...but to mention charity shield and european super cup as finals....now that is pushing it.

Houllier then won as 5 trophies in 2001.....6 trophies altogether in his time here. And i am sure he won those 5 trophies in his 1st 4 years here right ? So hows that comparison with rafa.....That didn't stop him from getting sacked...(em....asked to go)...didn't it ?

Arsene Wenger won the double in his 2nd season .....i think. Does he come out and say that...Fergie has won loads of trophies..does he come out and say that when we was under pressure 2 seasons ago.....

Even mourinho won 5 trophies in his 1st 3 seasons...and i am not including charity shield here.....(2 premier league, 2 league cups, 1 FA cup)...

Gosh.....an advice for rafa....stop trying to justify why you are doing a great job in words...show it in action....show it in the field.

2)
I agree....rafa is indeed working hard (too hard if you ask me)... He is taking charge of the scouting, youth development ....coaching the 1st team... And it will be irritating if you get criticism in the middle of it.

But rafa doesn't help himself.... He has already alienated all his close buddies who followed him from valencia. Its like he is living in his own zone where he is correct and everyone around him is wrong.... And that is what worries me of rafa's tenure.

He really believes he is doing a smashing job.......He goes on with his job like everything is fine...there's no problem. As long as we control the game..he is happy because his tactics work....As long as kuyt and voronin runs like forest gump, he is satsified. How i know this ? Does he rectify the mistakes he does ?

We make the same mistake every game....and it does not get corrected... Kuyt spends most of his time outside the penalty box...Crouch gets picked and pennant is dropped....Pennant gets picked and crouch is dropped.. We concede so many goals from set pieces ....our set pieces is sh1t.....

This happens every game...and it does not get rectified...whose fault is it ?
1)Owners ?
2)players playing heart and not the head ?
3)the ex-players criticism ?
4)lack of money ?

Its easy point at anyone...but there are 4 fingers pointing back at you. Rafa has to look at the big picture. Mourinho got the sack when he won the league and fa cup. Fergie was under pressure 2 seasons ago although he is manure's most successful manager... So when the team plays sh1t football...gets sh1t result...there would be criticism.... And this criticism he is getting is warranted.....

Remember when we lost the champions league final last may ? Did rafa accept the blame for picking kuyt as a lone striker against europe's oldest defence ? Nope...he preferred to shoot his mouth at the owners to give the cash...well they kept their part of the bargain....is rafa keeping his ?

:glare:

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:48 pm

The_Rock wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:1)
"If you analyse the last few years since I came to the club we have won four trophies and been in seven finals, including two in the Champions League," Benitez said in The People.

"How many other managers have done the same in their first three or four years at the club? People can talk about being successful but nobody is winning trophies every year.

"To do that is really difficult so I think we are in a really good position with a very young squad, so I have a lot of confidence in the team for the future."

2)
"When you are trying to work hard and do your job it is hard to accept the criticism that is always following me," Benitez added. "And, yes, it is a big surprise to see another manager in the background."

1)
4 trophies and 7 finals ? so we are counting the charity shield as a final ? the european super cup as a final ? ... where you receive a bye all the way to final I mean..no-one can take the champions league and FA cup from him...but to mention charity shield and european super cup as finals....now that is pushing it.

Houllier then won as 5 trophies in 2001.....6 trophies altogether in his time here. And i am sure he won those 5 trophies in his 1st 4 years here right ? So hows that comparison with rafa.....That didn't stop him from getting sacked...(em....asked to go)...didn't it ?

Arsene Wenger won the double in his 2nd season .....i think. Does he come out and say that...Fergie has won loads of trophies..does he come out and say that when we was under pressure 2 seasons ago.....

Even mourinho won 5 trophies in his 1st 3 seasons...and i am not including charity shield here.....(2 premier league, 2 league cups, 1 FA cup)...

Gosh.....an advice for rafa....stop trying to justify why you are doing a great job in words...show it in action....show it in the field.

2)
I agree....rafa is indeed working hard (too hard if you ask me)... He is taking charge of the scouting, youth development ....coaching the 1st team... And it will be irritating if you get criticism in the middle of it.

But rafa doesn't help himself.... He has already alienated all his close buddies who followed him from valencia. Its like he is living in his own zone where he is correct and everyone around him is wrong.... And that is what worries me of rafa's tenure.

He really believes he is doing a smashing job.......He goes on with his job like everything is fine...there's no problem. As long as we control the game..he is happy because his tactics work....As long as kuyt and voronin runs like forest gump, he is satsified. How i know this ? Does he rectify the mistakes he does ?

We make the same mistake every game....and it does not get corrected... Kuyt spends most of his time outside the penalty box...Crouch gets picked and pennant is dropped....Pennant gets picked and crouch is dropped.. We concede so many goals from set pieces ....our set pieces is sh1t.....

This happens every game...and it does not get rectified...whose fault is it ?
1)Owners ?
2)players playing heart and not the head ?
3)the ex-players criticism ?
4)lack of money ?

Its easy point at anyone...but there are 4 fingers pointing back at you. Rafa has to look at the big picture. Mourinho got the sack when he won the league and fa cup. Fergie was under pressure 2 seasons ago although he is manure's most successful manager... So when the team plays sh1t football...gets sh1t result...there would be criticism.... And this criticism he is getting is warranted.....

Remember when we lost the champions league final last may ? Did rafa accept the blame for picking kuyt as a lone striker against europe's oldest defence ? Nope...he preferred to shoot his mouth at the owners to give the cash...well they kept their part of the bargain....is rafa keeping his ?

OOHH good rant Rock but i never wrote the article and if you read my fiest bit i did apologise for putting it up before hand .

But in hind sight now after reading some of the venom aimed at him this piece is aimed at them supporters who crusify him at every oppertunity almost take a joy in it.

As i said before while he is our manager i will support him

by **jaytoothetee** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:50 pm

bigmick wrote:Amazing really when you think about it isn't it? We lose at Home in the fifth round of the FA Cup to Barnsley, and there is barely a wimper on the forum aside from the bleatings of a few wind-up merchants.

Had it been in the third round while we were going all out for the title and had just fielded a team of reserves, it might have been kind of OK. Had the draw still been full of Premiership teams, waiting to ambush us at the next stage it would have been slightly more bearable. But here we were, in one of the two competitions we could possibly win and in the one out of the two in which gave us easily the biggest opportunity, and we lost, at home, to Barnsley.

So why the under-reaction? Well there are a number of reasons. I guess the main one is that most of the arguments have been done to death already. I must say I can hardly be bothered coming on here and debating when you know that regardless of what has happened, irrespective of how low we have stumbled there is a faction on the forum who will stick to their guns on Rafa no matter what. It'll be our lack of funds, the fact we approached Klinnsman in November, the Americans, the players who aren't trying, the injuries, the refs, the strikers and a thousand other things but whatever it is, it won't be the mananger that's for sure. Give him more time, four more years, knee-jerkers, Ooters, disloyal and all that comes pouring out every time. Then there is "so who is the alternative?" argument, blurted out at every turn. Quite why people think that a manager who has presided over a shambolic campaign in the league, an FA Cup exit at Home to Barnsley, an early exit in the Carling Cup and a scrape through the group stages in the Champions League despite being in a p!ss easy group would be a hugely difficult act to follow right now is beyond me but they throw the question out there with gay abandon anyhow. It's a bit like the poster who asked (in all seriousness) a couple of months back, who on Earth would be a better bet than Dirk Kuyt? Once I started I couldn't stop. I think I got to Cameron Jerome at Birmingham and started getting blisters on my fingers.

"Let him finish what he's started". I ask you, in all seriousness where will we be once he's finished what he's started? We went behind to Luton and needed an equaliser to take them to a replay where we won through. We went behind to Havent and waterlooville twice, at Home, before we eventually prevailed. We got dumped out, at home, to Barnsley in the next round.

If (as I think we will) we get knocked out by Inter Milan in this next round of the Champions League, what will it take before the fan club finally, eventually accept that maybe, perhaps, Rafa's methods aren't working? Is there any point in the future, ever, where people will think, "you know what, I think it might be time for a change". I ask, because quite simply the debate is over. We are getting worse and worse, more and more embarassing and it's even get to the point where we can lose at Home to Barnsly in the fifth round of the FA Cup and to be absolutely truthful, none of us are even surprised. Surely that's the clearest indicator of all.

The thing is, I have used all them excuses myself in the past to justify keeping Rafa. But it's a question of "what if...?" really. What if DIC had bought us instead of G&H?, what if we had signed Alves? etc. But of course none of those things happened, and regardless of what could've been, right now it might just be for best if Rafa and Liverpool FC were to part company. I think both parties need a fresh start, and although I will be distraught if Rafa leaves, I no longer think that it will be a bad thing for the club if he does.

by **heimdall** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:54 pm

The_Rock wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:1)
"If you analyse the last few years since I came to the club we have won four trophies and been in seven finals, including two in the Champions League," Benitez said in The People.

"How many other managers have done the same in their first three or four years at the club? People can talk about being successful but nobody is winning trophies every year.

"To do that is really difficult so I think we are in a really good position with a very young squad, so I have a lot of confidence in the team for the future."

2)
"When you are trying to work hard and do your job it is hard to accept the criticism that is always following me," Benitez added. "And, yes, it is a big surprise to see another manager in the background."

1)
4 trophies and 7 finals ? so we are counting the charity shield as a final ? the european super cup as a final ? ... where you receive a bye all the way to final I mean..no-one can take the champions league and FA cup from him...but to mention charity shield and european super cup as finals....now that is pushing it.

Houllier then won as 5 trophies in 2001.....6 trophies altogether in his time here. And i am sure he won those 5 trophies in his 1st 4 years here right ? So hows that comparison with rafa.....That didn't stop him from getting sacked...(em....asked to go)...didn't it ?

Arsene Wenger won the double in his 2nd season .....i think. Does he come out and say that...Fergie has won loads of trophies..does he come out and say that when we was under pressure 2 seasons ago.....

Even mourinho won 5 trophies in his 1st 3 seasons...and i am not including charity shield here.....(2 premier league, 2 league cups, 1 FA cup)...

Gosh.....an advice for rafa....stop trying to justify why you are doing a great job in words...show it in action....show it in the field.

2)
I agree....rafa is indeed working hard (too hard if you ask me)... He is taking charge of the scouting, youth development ....coaching the 1st team... And it will be irritating if you get criticism in the middle of it.

But rafa doesn't help himself.... He has already alienated all his close buddies who followed him from valencia. Its like he is living in his own zone where he is correct and everyone around him is wrong.... And that is what worries me of rafa's tenure.

He really believes he is doing a smashing job.......He goes on with his job like everything is fine...there's no problem. As long as we control the game..he is happy because his tactics work....As long as kuyt and voronin runs like forest gump, he is satsified. How i know this ? Does he rectify the mistakes he does ?

We make the same mistake every game....and it does not get corrected... Kuyt spends most of his time outside the penalty box...Crouch gets picked and pennant is dropped....Pennant gets picked and crouch is dropped.. We concede so many goals from set pieces ....our set pieces is sh1t.....

This happens every game...and it does not get rectified...whose fault is it ?
1)Owners ?
2)players playing heart and not the head ?
3)the ex-players criticism ?
4)lack of money ?

Its easy point at anyone...but there are 4 fingers pointing back at you. Rafa has to look at the big picture. Mourinho got the sack when he won the league and fa cup. Fergie was under pressure 2 seasons ago although he is manure's most successful manager... So when the team plays sh1t football...gets sh1t result...there would be criticism.... And this criticism he is getting is warranted.....

Remember when we lost the champions league final last may ? Did rafa accept the blame for picking kuyt as a lone striker against europe's oldest defence ? Nope...he preferred to shoot his mouth at the owners to give the cash...well they kept their part of the bargain....is rafa keeping his ?

Excellent post Rock, I'm glad to see more and more people waking up and realising that Rafa is no genius and can't survice on Istanbul alone. He is not good enough as an all round manager although he is undoubtedly a good tactical coach for european cups. I am seriosuly scared of Tuesday now, I have a really bad feeling that we will get even more humiliated, although of course I hope not.

by **burjennio** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:57 pm

Before we all start slicing our wrists on another day we'd have scored 6. yesterday their keeper had what i like to call "an anfield day" where for 90 minutes he was in fact superhuman and couldnt have been stopped with bullets

Sadly tho it'll be Inter or bust for rafa now, if he doesnt get past the I-Tis his goose will be well and truly cooked and I dont think any amount of chanting will keep him in a job

on the plus side its good to see Mr Kuyt on the scoresheet again.

Every cloud ladies, every cloud

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