Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:17 am

I am not being stupid, I know that it is nearly statistically impossible for Everton and LIverpool to have the same record against all the other teams, I just said that in the example to simply the point I was trying to make. And that point is, if at this point everton (and the teams behind us that are vying for 4th) are the only teams we care about surpassing, a draw at stamford bridge CANNOT be seen as a failure if Everton (and all the other clubs) could also only manage a draw (at best). And that it is not fair to say that we lost ground to everton this week because they beat reading at home and we drew at chelsea (providing of course we manage to beat reading away, and given than everton already drew at Chelsea at the end of the season you would have to look back on this week as a wash)

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:24 am

A point at Stamford Bridge is a bad result because the rest of them won this weekend. If we were 15 points ahead of the rest of the league, this would be a great result, but since we're now 7 points behind Everton, anytime we fail to win is a bad result because it's one less game we have to catch those 7 points. Is that too difficult to see? The overall result looks like a good one, but because we're so far back it is a bad result. We have to win each remaining game, because if not then we're not going to catch them, unless (and I doubt it) they flop and don't manage another point all season.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:37 am

JoeTerp wrote:I am not being stupid, I know that it is nearly statistically impossible for Everton and LIverpool to have the same record against all the other teams, I just said that in the example to simply the point I was trying to make. And that point is, if at this point everton (and the teams behind us that are vying for 4th) are the only teams we care about surpassing, a draw at stamford bridge CANNOT be seen as a failure if Everton (and all the other clubs) could also only manage a draw (at best). And that it is not fair to say that we lost ground to everton this week because they beat reading at home and we drew at chelsea (providing of course we manage to beat reading away, and given than everton already drew at Chelsea at the end of the season you would have to look back on this week as a wash)

That way doesn't really work Joe because all teams form varies throughout the season. Take Spurs for example early in the season a draw against them would be considered a bad result , now they are begining to show a bit of form a draw wouldn't be such a bad result.

The only real way is by league position, taking into account games in hand and number of home games played.(you should get more points at home)

Play Fulham once they have nothing to play for and its completely different than if they are still fighting to stay up. So those sort of comparisons are really not much use in deciding if it was a good point won or two points lost.

Personally I think any point away against a top side is a good point, but that again still depends on circumstances.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:49 am

Saint but that depends on what you class as a top side. People would be happy going to Goodison, Villa Park, St James', City of Manchester, White Heart Lane and even Fratton Park and picking up a point, as well as picking up points away to the top three. I still go into every game and expect us to win doesn't matter who or where. Obviously agaist certain sides a draw is a good result, and usually a 0-0 draw with Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is a good result, but at this moment in time, draws aren't good enough, to us against any side.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:54 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:A point at Stamford Bridge is a bad result because the rest of them won this weekend. If we were 15 points ahead of the rest of the league, this would be a great result, but since we're now 7 points behind Everton, anytime we fail to win is a bad result because it's one less game we have to catch those 7 points. Is that too difficult to see? The overall result looks like a good one, but because we're so far back it is a bad result. We have to win each remaining game, because if not then we're not going to catch them, unless (and I doubt it) they flop and don't manage another point all season.

not sure what table you are looking at, but we are only 3 points behind Everton with a game in hand AND they still have to come to Anfield, so it is nowhere near the point where we HAVE to win EVERY game and start saying that a point at the Bridge is not good enough. Should we have taken carra off and sent kewell in and bombed Reina forward at the end of the game to do whatever it took at all cost to get the victory? I certianly think not. Everton still have to play Arsenal and United (so do we) We have boro at home next in the league while they have city away. If all goes according to plan, we should make up 2 or 3 points that week, but again that could be too optimistic because we drew at city so why should we expect everton to do any better (and if they do, and we don't make up any points, then that would be worrying)

yes S@int that point is correct but I think that can go along with the theory that all the good calls and bad calls that teams get over a season should end up working itself out.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:00 am

Well, a sh!t game in all fairness.

It was a well deserved point, but overall we shaded it I thought. Crouch missed our best opportunities, so that means he's shi!t. Crouch out.

Mascherano was outstanding, Skrtel was excellent and looks to be a real prospect, I think the lad's gonna be class.

Also, Rafa is the devil and hasn't a clue what he's doing.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:03 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Saint but that depends on what you class as a top side. People would be happy going to Goodison, Villa Park, St James', City of Manchester, White Heart Lane and even Fratton Park and picking up a point, as well as picking up points away to the top three. I still go into every game and expect us to win doesn't matter who or where. Obviously agaist certain sides a draw is a good result, and usually a 0-0 draw with Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is a good result, but at this moment in time, draws aren't good enough, to us against any side.

As far as I am concerned at the moment there are only 3 sides I would settle for a point away before the game. Mancs, Arsenal , Chelsea, and I would still hope to come away with all three points even then.

The other teams I expect us to beat home an away, while acknowledging that that would be pretty much impossible

The problem we have at the moment is that having lost so many points already this season, even draws against top teams have to be seen as an opportunity lost. I think at the end of the season though we will look back at other games for lost points not this one.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:41 am

I agree Saint, come the end of the season, we'll be bemoaning the fact we dropped points to Wigan and Birmingham among others at home. But right now, this game is still two points dropped IMO.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:23 am

nobybob wrote:your whole attitude is really starting to annoy me now , nothing but pessimism. you begrudge the fact they did OK today and are looking to find something, ANYTHING to moan at, any opportunity to have ago at RAFA shame on you.
This is the reason that G&H get so much support off you cos you know that everything these two yank sh!tbags have done weakens your case against rafa. So even when every other fan with half a brain condemns the Americans and say they are out to milk the club dry, you back them !WHATS UR PROBLEM did you find your wife in bed with a Spanish fella with a goatee in years gone by or what? Or are you just one of those people that can never happy unless they can find something to moan at? Well do me a favour take your moaning elsewhere go depress some other forum.

i will tell you about my attitude shall i sunbeam.

over 30 f*cking years i watched this team on a regular basis, and i am not talking about 2 games a season and then spouting sh*te like i am a regular matchgoer.

I have seen titles won, i have seen cups won, i have seen total domination and been proud to be a fan and a scouser, I have seen heartbreak and i have seen 18 years of not winning the title. the problem with some of you is that you have never seen a title and have grown up with sh*te.

the fans on here who need to be questioning themselves are those happy with the predicament we are in now, it makes me ashamed to be a red when i read some of the excuses made on here about both our manager and our club, the fact is benitez is clueless and will never win the league so why are some of you defending him and making excuses for him?

our club is becoming a laughing stock, and while you are talking about whingers look at the the so called fans in the 'games abroad' thread, it makes me ashamed to go in there and read it. all the 'oh this shouldnt happen to us', look at all the negative comments about the owners, look at all the b*tching about other clubs

so when you talk about negative things written look at the positives i write about the owners and about playing games overseas, look at the positives i write about players, but never expect me to praise the manager when he f*cks up, never expect me to praise players when they f*ck up.

the fact is i love this club and like i say elsewhere i was here before rafa and i will be here long after he has gone to madrid, he is here for a paycheck, he is not here to put the club first, he is here to try and advance himself and he is failing. if he was putting the club first he would listen to advice rather than plough on regardless serving up this garbage.

we are currently in the middle of our worst spell under rafa but still i see excuses and people shifting the blame elsewhere. are you all happy with mediocrity? well i am not, but then again i know different, i have seen titles won by our club and i want to see it again, get rid of this idiot, get someone in with tactical nous (genius my @rse) and we will have some chance.

some of you need to remember what this club is all about.

case over

by **LFC2007** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:37 am

nobybob wrote:WHATS UR PROBLEM did you find your wife in bed with a Spanish fella with a goatee in years gone by or what?

It was probably just a ladyboy :laugh:

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:11 am

Peewee I understand what you're saying. Speaking as one probably one of the older members and without sounding big headed, one of the most knowledgeable on Liverpool Football Club I'm with you all the way. I saw us lift title after title and it sickens me when I hear people say we're happy coming fourth. A club of our size should be ashamed to be happy with anything less than 1st. I don't care how far football has moved on, 1st is still 1st, 2nd is still nothing.

Benitez won us the european cup or so we're led to believe. Like peewee said, does that mean he has the job for life? Souness won us the FA Cup so should he still be our manager, after all he's won the same trophy as Benitez did. Nobody is taking away Benitez' successes as the manager of this club. Two european cup finals, fa cup final and a carling cup final show he has something about him, but we can't be happy being a cup team. Also the success of Istanbul was three years ago now. Bob Paisley was concentrating on the following season the day after our success in Rome 77 against Borussia Monchengladbach, because he managed this club in the way it should be managed "you've achieved that now we move on" Benitez still bangs on about the 25th of May 2005 to this day. We've got to move on, if Benitez can't do it, and I don't think he can, then we have to change.

However, peewee, I put the question to you, if it's down to the players when we perform and win, surely it's down to the same players when we get beat as well isn't it? But you seem to lie blame on Benitez when we're beaten. That's alright as long as you give him the credit for victories. I've done the same peewee, I've layed the blame on Benitez when we're beaten many times, but failed to give it to him when we've won, which I suppose isn't fair.

I'm starting to see as to why people who support Rafa have a case. When we get beat "it's down to rotation" but we rotate when we win as well so that doesn't really hold up. It's Benitez fault for defeats, yet not down to him for victories which again doesn't hold up. Also though those who support Benitez must take both sides, when we lose to pro-Benitez "it's the fault of what's gone on" yet when we win these problems seem to disappear from the debate. Also when we win "it's Benitez is a genius" yet when we lose "the players aren't good enough" There is a point to this trust me. We as fans have got to put our problems with Benitez for one side and get behind him. I don't want him as our manager but I don't want us to fail, so if he's in chagre I want him to do the best he can with this club. Also saying that I think he's done the best he can, which is why I don't want him anymore, so he should move on and let the club "he loves" progress, because under him we're going backwards and there's no two ways about it. But while he's in charge we have to hope and pray he gets it right.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:17 am

gbjh, hi mate

i do not always believe the victories are down to him, if he was so good tactically why he does he get it spectacularly wrong so often? lets look at istanbul as an example, if finnan wasnt injured at half time would he have made the change and brought hamman on? i doubt that he would based on what he has done since.

at times he has done well, but his subsequent failures sometimes lead me to believe that he got lucky on certain occasions and on others he didn't.

he reminds me of a chancer, surely a tactical genius would win a game well, then stick with that team while they are winning, not make 5 changes because we have a cup game coming up.

sorry mate i can see where you are coming from and i will give him credit when its due, i used to give him credit, but now with the benefit of hindsight i see someone who got lucky a few times

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:24 am

Alright back to you

Trust me I've used the Finnan injury and Hamman substituation many a time for examples. If you need three goals you don't bring Didi on let's be fair. And I agree Benitez has gotten lucky on many occasions. And don't get me wrong I don't want him managing us anymore than you do, but he's in charge of OUR club and we have to accept it and back him, like LOYAL fans of Liverpool Football Club have always done.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:31 am

mate i want the best for the club only, i don't care about benitez and will be happy when he has gone, i support the club mate and i always will no matter what happens, but while this guy continues to take the p*ss out of us then i have no respect for him.

lets just look at the current situation, a situation of his own making in my opinion, does he knuckle down and win games, no he sends out teams with no passion, no idea what they are doing, no cohesion, does he do this to take the p*ss knowing he is going anyway? surely not,but can you give any other explanation as to why we are in our worst streak under rafa.

rafa is taking everyone for a ride mate and sadly some people are falling for it, and while so called fans stage protests and pressure the owners rafa thinks we all love him and what he is doing, this just leads to a continuation of what he is doing which in the clod light of day is taking us further away from the top teams, no if more fans spoke out agaisnt him and his naivety then surely even he would take notice that people are losing patience with him and maybe then he will realise his stubbornness is taking us backwards and not forwards

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:38 am

Again peewee I agree. He's not only the the p!ss out of the club, but the fans aswell. That interview where he refused to answer questions other than "i'm here to train and coach my players" That's disrespecting us fans because we have a right to know what's going on with OUR club.

He's certainly taking us backwards now and he has to go. I think he's taken us as far as he can go and now it's time for Rafael Benitez to leave Liverpool Football Club.

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