Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:34 pm

I'm there cigs

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:52 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
peewee wrote:
Effes wrote:I think everyone, including you?, want them out.

not really mate, i can take them or leave them, i am more concerned about whats happening on the pitch.

personally i didnt buy into the medias attempt to cause instability by having a go at them, i support them 100% in their spat with benitez, as far as i am concerned that was caused by rafa thinking he could bully the owners and he got his wrist slapped as a result.

as for the loan, i understand how these things work so i am not too concerned about that either.

i have said many times that when the owners actually let us down then i will worry about them, until then i am more concerned about our football and the fact that this whole buy out thing shows us to be hypocrites and is turning our club into a laughing stock, its not the owners doing that, its the people who thought that this crazy idea would ever bring us anything other than ridicule.

i appreciate others have different views on this mate and i respect that, my view is just different. if it works all credit to those who stuck their neck out

I dont agree with your view on this, so will leave discussing it to one side.

Just so that you understand the time lines involved, Rafa's outburst came following the meeting that Hicks and Gillet had with Klinsmann.

and two wrongs dont make a right mate, whatever the time lines and whether rafa even knew they met klinsman has no relevance here, the fact is rafa dissed his employers in the open, the klinsman issue had not even been raised in the press and was only raised many weeks later

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:59 am

nobybob wrote:
peewee wrote:
Effes wrote:I think everyone, including you?, want them out.

not really mate, i can take them or leave them, i am more concerned about whats happening on the pitch.

as for the loan, i understand how these things work so i am not too concerned about that either.

i have said many times that when the owners actually let us down then i will worry about them, until then i am more concerned about our football and the fact that this whole buy out thing shows us to be hypocrites and is turning our club into a laughing stock, its not the owners doing that, its the people who thought that this crazy idea would ever bring us anything other than ridicule.

i appreciate others have different views on this mate and i respect that, my view is just different. if it works all credit to those who stuck their neck out

god help us all when so called fans are this naive
not really mate, i can take them or leave them, i am more concerned about whats happening on the pitch.

do you really think the 2 are not linked, it is G&H that have caused all the problems and instability.

personally i didn't buy into the medias attempt to cause instability by having a go at them, i support them 100% in their spat with benitez, as far as i am concerned that was caused by rafa thinking he could bully the owners and he got his wrist slapped as a result.

LOL bully the owners -he let the world know that they would were not all they made out to be and had not put money in the club and invested for its future all they wanted to milk us for all they could. also they told RAFA that he could not SELL or BUY even on a bossman in other words stopped him from doing his job you really expect him to just say yeah OK and keep his mouth shut. RAFA has always been completely dedicated to LFC and only wants the best for us , and for this crime G&H went behind his back and tried to get fu.kin klinsman to manage our great club, yet you back these scum yank parasites in this ?- shame on you

And you think its NORMAL business practice to lie about investing and not putting debts onto the club? If Moore's Had gone out and got a loan off the banks for 300million then that money could have been used to get us a boss stadium and invest in world class players but he did not want to burden the club with debt so he looked for people with money to invest. In stepped the yanks promising the earth , they went out got the loan used it to buy the club then used the club as collaterall , so now we don't have the money to build our new stadium and we don't have our money for world class players but we have paid for the parasites to buy our club and now have the 300million debt. think about it and then tell us all again how you back G&H. "when the owners let us down you will start worring you say " well guess what NOW is the time to start!
Face it you will just back anyone or anything that is against RAFA!

naive, ha dont make me laugh mate, been there and done that etc and work in finance (back in after a couple of years away)

i understand the complexities surrounding such a deal and also understand the problems this will raise.

the people going into this are the very same people supporting rafa with his bad management, that to me speaks volumes.

as for the owners being to blame for the problems on the pitch, well thats just utter tosh mate and you know it but you are not prepared to say it. and like i have said before if rafa is letting whats happening off the pitch affect whats happening on the pitch well thats just another sign of his poor management, next you will be tell me hicks ordered rafa to play lucas on the left last week. i suppose the previous poor finishes in the league under rafa was down to moores ownership as well. the mancs have american owners the fans didnt want and they are really struggling haha. the fact is rafa is letting this club down, like it or not.

do you really think hounding the owners out will change whats happening on the pitch? are you suggesting rafa is picking :censored:

teams to force the owners out? if thats the case he is taking the p*ss out of us all. or shall we just go with the fact that even with new owners the stubborn rafa will carry on as he is ruining the footballing side of our club,

too many people are looking for blame elsewhere than where the real problem lies. lets get the football side right first, its too easy to make the owners scapegoats for the failings of the precious rafa.

and you call me naive

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:08 am

AAhhhhh the newage supporter, what good is a supporter if we are not protesting? The days of supporting our club seem to have gone, I wish those days returned.

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:12 am

Kharhaz wrote:AAhhhhh the newage supporter, what good is a supporter if we are not protesting? The days of supporting our club seem to have gone, I wish those days returned.

i will never stop supporting my club mate, never, the fact i care so much about the club is obvious that i want the footballing side sorted out and thats why i want rafa out. by his own admission he thinks his tactics are right when its clear for all to see they are wrong.

does rafa care more about LFC than i do? does he bollox, rafa cares more about his own reputation and desire to prove himself right while running the team into the ground.

the sooner he is gone from our club the better, i am not saying a new guy would be any better, but at least we will be in with a chance that we do not have at the moment

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:22 am

peewee wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:AAhhhhh the newage supporter, what good is a supporter if we are not protesting? The days of supporting our club seem to have gone, I wish those days returned.

i will never stop supporting my club mate, never, the fact i care so much about the club is obvious that i want the footballing side sorted out and thats why i want rafa out. by his own admission he thinks his tactics are right when its clear for all to see they are wrong.

does rafa care more about LFC than i do? does he bollox, rafa cares more about his own reputation and desire to prove himself right while running the team into the ground.

the sooner he is gone from our club the better, i am not saying a new guy would be any better, but at least we will be in with a chance that we do not have at the moment

What I said was raised in conjuction with what people feel on this forum, lets protest, lets raise money, The yanks out. All the attention from these people are on the outside, the people who are running the club, the focus is on press articles, what people know whats best for the club. All we hear is gillett this, hicks that, look at this forum, where have the supporters of Liverpool Football Club gone? Oh but we are, we wish the best for LFC, thats why we are protesting !

NO !
Here is one for all you so called do gooders, the ones who dont want to see another Leeds Utd scenario. Get behind the club. But you wont, so divided, 1 says its rafa, 1 says its hicks, 1 says its gillett, 1 says its moores, 1 says its parry, heres my opinion, I say its us, we all have a differing opinion but is it down to us in the long run. Lets get united and support the team. Then deal with the next problem.

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:45 am

Kharhaz wrote:
peewee wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:AAhhhhh the newage supporter, what good is a supporter if we are not protesting? The days of supporting our club seem to have gone, I wish those days returned.

i will never stop supporting my club mate, never, the fact i care so much about the club is obvious that i want the footballing side sorted out and thats why i want rafa out. by his own admission he thinks his tactics are right when its clear for all to see they are wrong.

does rafa care more about LFC than i do? does he bollox, rafa cares more about his own reputation and desire to prove himself right while running the team into the ground.

the sooner he is gone from our club the better, i am not saying a new guy would be any better, but at least we will be in with a chance that we do not have at the moment

What I said was raised in conjuction with what people feel on this forum, lets protest, lets raise money, The yanks out. All the attention from these people are on the outside, the people who are running the club, the focus is on press articles, what people know whats best for the club. All we hear is gillett this, hicks that, look at this forum, where have the supporters of Liverpool Football Club gone? Oh but we are, we wish the best for LFC, thats why we are protesting !

NO !
Here is one for all you so called do gooders, the ones who dont want to see another Leeds Utd scenario. Get behind the club. But you wont, so divided, 1 says its rafa, 1 says its hicks, 1 says its gillett, 1 says its moores, 1 says its parry, heres my opinion, I say its us, we all have a differing opinion but is it down to us in the long run. Lets get united and support the team. Then deal with the next problem.

has anyone stopped supporting the team? I dont think so.

the fact is mate we all have different ideas about what to do to solve the problem, while people think its the owners causing the bad play we will never move forward, or at least we will waste time, they think this needs to be adressed first and want to waste a few years while ignoring the real problem.

number one is to get the football right, we are a football club.

i hope now people can see how foolish this whole share thing is, people have very different ideas about what to do and that wont change with some foolish share scheme, in fact it will make matters worse ans people will then think they have more of a right to have a say as they have put money in.

by **lakes10** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:17 am

heimdall wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Like I said earlier, what do the detractors have to benefit from shooting other people's ideas down and calling them stupid and saying that it will never happen? You have nothing to gain so why not just say nothing? Obviously no one is forcing you to buy shares, and if it does start to pick up momentum which IS POSSIBLE, FFS Havant & Waterlooville were 2-1 up at Anfield, you would be surprised at what actually IS poissible. If you say nothing you cannot be wrong, if you speak out against it you are only left with the status quo which almost everyone is against, AND if it does go through and you speak out against it then you have some serious egg on your face.

The Logistical problems are NOT THAT HARD, FFS the model or multiple models are ALREADY laid out from other clubs. Just do a bit of research and do not just close your ears and scream HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY MAKE CHOICES!?!?!?!?!?! ? ??? uhhhh an elected board would pick a chairman just like how every other company is run. HOW could the club make money!?!?!?!?!?!? same way other clubs make money SALES and Selling stock. A lot of these concepts are not too difficult and if you spend any amount of time actually thinking about solutions there are multiple ways to resolve them.

But no amount of shirt sales will offset the cost of a new stadium.

£300m (which is highly likely to increase) / 100,000 shareholders = £3000 each.

So what happens if, say, 1/3 of the initial 100,000 can't afford to pay up the extra money?

Ok but in that case how can we afford a new stadium anyway?? I'm confused by this. If 100,000 people own the club outright for £500 million then that must be better than 2 yanks who own about £100 million of the club with the rest already in loans. I don't understand the arguments against this.
We would simply loan less money at a cheaper rate than the yanks could as we will have tonnes more equity than they have.

If I'm missing something here then please enlighten me.

Basically the club will be run almost exactly like it is now except there will be an elected president and the club will be completely debt free, if they then decide to build a new stadium it will be much easier to get the money and crucially repay it.

So assume that 10% have bad credit history, or are criminals, etc.

Who's going to lend money to these people?

NO I think you misunderstand Lando, I mean the club as a whole taking out a loan not the individual people chipping in £5000 each.

Lakes I really don't see your point, at the moment how much equity does G+H have in the club compared to how much equity the bank has?? Answer not much!! If it was bought out by the fans then that share company as a whole would own 100% of the equity of the club irrespective of its value and based on that could take out loans when and if needed.

As said I really don't get your negativity on this issue, especially from someone having worked in the financial markets, it wasn't Bearings you worked for was it??

You still haven't answered my question of how this can work for Barcelona and many other big clubs but not us, until you do I will assume, with all respect, that you are talking out of your posterior!

I worked for Merrill Lynch.

It works for Barcelona as it there other monies and not just that of the fans.

in todays market if we asked a bank for a loan we would not get it, its too much of a high risk, somthing that banks are cutting down on.

for this buy out to work there still needs to be big money behind the club. we need someone with a big name or a good history.

Ah Merrils, ok fair enough, I still don't agree with you though but I guess we are at a stalemate.

I do agree that there needs to be some big names involved though as the thought of an academic running this initiative scares the cr@p out of me.

lol i think you are spot on about the academic

by **Dundalk** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:29 pm

Seems top be going well so far....
Share Liverpool FC, the group looking for 100,000 fans to put in £5,000 each in a bid to buy the club, have confirmed that they have been pledged nearly £60m during the first four days of the scheme.

11,892 fans have pledged to buy a share of the club, which amounts to £59.46m in a bid to make the £500m needed for the buy-out.

Google has revealed that, as well as the 11,892 "count me in" responses, the site has also recieved 5,394 responses in favour of the idea but need more information to make their pledge and 7,930 responses from people who cannot afford it.

The UK, Norway, USA and Ireland are the four countries where most of the hits originated.

However, with only £60m made there is a long way to go to get up to the proposed £500m. It also must be said that it is easy enough to pledge £5,000 and then not go through with it.

Rogan Taylor, Share Liverpool FC's spokesperson, remains confident.

"These are pretty impressive numbers for just a few days with www.shareliverpoolfc.co.uk live on line and we're very encouraged," he said.

"The stats also reveal we have a lot of work to do to present more detailed information, and also to address the affordability issue many fans flagged up.

"What they will be buying is something that lasts forever - a share in Liverpool Football Club which cannot be disturbed.

"The member shareholder will be able to pass it on, down through his or her family generations; to sons and daughters, and grandchildren. You will sit in that new stadium and think: 'This belongs to us ...and so does the club that plays here!".

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:35 pm

£60 million in pledges after 4 days is a great start . Lets keep it going and see where we get. :buttrock

by **zarababe** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:51 pm

Great news - supporter power has never been demonstrated better then by Liverpool FC aka Istanbul, European nights, Rafa Benitez support demonstrations and continued support for the Rafa at matches and Hicks & Gillette out campaigns including this - the boldest display of fan power and determination.

It does not surprise me tha so many are willing to back this idea with talk and 'muscle' .

Lets see what happens - if the Egg Heads can get the structure and formula right, there may be some interesting times ahead, watching with hope for the future!

by **Roger Red Hat** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:05 pm

err, who actually is holding all this money?

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:28 pm

Lee J wrote:err, who actually is holding all this money?

It's only pledged at the minute Lee, there going to see how much is pledged first before people actually start handing over there money.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:23 am

Igor Zidane wrote:£60 million in pledges after 4 days is a great start . Lets keep it going and see where we get.

I dont think it is, considering the fanbase LFC have in four days just over 10,000 have pledged. That is pretty pathetic, that is not being negative, its a fact. There are many supporters out there with money, famous people also who could contribute a lot and make it move more forward but they wont because opinion is divided. Whatever amount is raised will not be enough, the reason why Liverpool FC are unique is the fact that they are supported by the working class, dont have enough money but always find it to turn up at anfield. The only way around this is to get people to take over the club who do have money, and that is not the majority of supporters. They are businessmen/women. People born with a silver spoon in the mouth, and Liverpool supporters are not famous for that, they are famous for there staunch support to LFC. I dont condemn what you are doing but it will never happen. Like I said opinion is divided, what one person thinks is right another person thinks is wrong.

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:42 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:£60 million in pledges after 4 days is a great start . Lets keep it going and see where we get.

I dont think it is, considering the fanbase LFC have in four days just over 10,000 have pledged. That is pretty pathetic, that is not being negative, its a fact. There are many supporters out there with money, famous people also who could contribute a lot and make it move more forward but they wont because opinion is divided. Whatever amount is raised will not be enough, the reason why Liverpool FC are unique is the fact that they are supported by the working class, dont have enough money but always find it to turn up at anfield. The only way around this is to get people to take over the club who do have money, and that is not the majority of supporters. They are businessmen/women. People born with a silver spoon in the mouth, and Liverpool supporters are not famous for that, they are famous for there staunch support to LFC. I dont condemn what you are doing but it will never happen. Like I said opinion is divided, what one person thinks is right another person thinks is wrong.

What point are you trying to make then .You don't condemn what were doing , that's good of yer ,i'll sleep better tonight. Listen i'll try and explain this one more time shall i . In my opinion this is by far the most important time in the history of LFC . This is more important than rafa ,than winning the league ,than winning the champions league . This is about the future of our club . It's about wether you want to be lied to ,to be taken for every penny in the name of the club , it's about wether your willing to risk us ending up like leeds utd . It's even more important than rotation. DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT WE THINK THIS IS?

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