Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:34 am

JohnBull wrote:The replies so far are meaningless - the players quoted are playing worse now than ever and if you can't see that you aren't going to the same matches as me !

There is not ONE player who has improved under Raffa but there is a fair bit of a squad who are totally disallusioned and mystified by the management.

I would argue that Torres, for a start, is a much better player now than the one we signed. The stats already suggest that.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:41 am

JohnBull wrote:Can anyone name a player who is better now than when Raffa signed him ?
Nuff Said !

Have to agree with johnbull....players don't really seem to progress under rafa.....

1)Kuyt
2)sissoko
3)voronin - that was fast...he played 5 matches quite well..and its all downhill
4)Crouch - He was good last year....but this year he is so average..rafa has to take his share of the blame for this one.
5)Riise - the most shocking. From being one of the LBs every team wanted to have (he scored loads of goals from LB)...he is a joke now.
6)Alonso -

by **Reg** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:58 pm

On the whole, they've all improved. The catch is that Utd players are still performing better as a team.

by **tubby** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:51 pm

He also improved people like Biscan and Traore. OK so they were sold after that season but they were both influential in our run to Istanbul.

by **tubby** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:52 pm

Reg wrote:On the whole, they've all improved. The catch is that Utd players are still performing better as a team.

Yeah well no brainer really. They have more quality all round.

by **RedBlood** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:56 pm

reina
arebola
agger
pennant
alonso
mascherano
lucas
sissoko(b4 he was sold)
babel
torres
crouch

infact near enough all the players have shown improvement

by **RedBlood** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:05 pm

carra
finnan
carson
benayoun

:blues:

by **RedorDead** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:08 pm

I too think this is a pointless thread. Have some players improved under Rafa? Undoubtably. Steve Finnan is just one example but there are many others. On the flip side I am sure there are players who have declined or failed under Rafa...Dirk Kuyt was nothing short of prolific before he came here.
The point is however that our current situation is nothing to do with individuals. It is about team ethic. On paper I think man for man we have a better squad of individuals than Arsenal, and it is not that far behind United....but they play as a team. They play flowing football, have settled starting 11's and know instinctively what their team mates are going to do. They believe in themselves and play like it.
We have the players to compete, we all know it, but they are under performing terribly. Whether it's off field distractions, rotation or just confidence being shot to hell it is seeing our chances of CL qualification slip away.
Rafa is on his last chance now, if he is the manager we all thought he was when he arrived he needs to change things now....this season is starting to look like being 3-0 down to Ac Milan at half time.....he can do it, we can cement a winning run and stroll into the top 4.....if we don't however it will be all change next season for sure.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:23 pm

The_Rock wrote:
JohnBull wrote:Can anyone name a player who is better now than when Raffa signed him ?
Nuff Said !

Have to agree with johnbull....players don't really seem to progress under rafa.....

1)Kuyt
2)sissoko
3)voronin - that was fast...he played 5 matches quite well..and its all downhill
4)Crouch - He was good last year....but this year he is so average..rafa has to take his share of the blame for this one.
5)Riise - the most shocking. From being one of the LBs every team wanted to have (he scored loads of goals from LB)...he is a joke now.
6)Alonso -

Hmmm.

Kuyt - never really looked a world beater. Came in, done ok for a bit, then couldn't hack the pace and was found wanting himself.

Sissoko - started brilliant. Got injured. Came back with a flurry. Got injured again. This affected his momentum in the side, thus affecting his confidence seemingly. Was never the same player after the eye injury. Hmm, who else wasn't the same after their injuries? I can name a dozen down the years. This cannot be contributed to Rafa whatsoever. Moot point.

Voronin - was he ever that great? What were you expecting? Henry-like ability? A new player in a new league and a bosman was never going to cut it. He bagged a few more goals than people already expected.

Crouch - why did you even bother to mention him? He hasn't had a kick, has he? So it's not fair to include him in this pointless list and once again a moot point to try to make. He's been seemingly shunned - at which I have to say is Rafa's doing, and wrongly so. The buck stops with him here, as at times when Crouch has played he's either done well, or made a big impact and actually scored. He is our best striker after Torres.

Riise - why? Because he hasn't scored as many this season or last season? He's a left back. What do you expect? Just because he wrapped a few thunderbolts in in his time and hasn't been doing it consistently doesn't mean he hasn't improved in other areas....like defending and supporting the winger. Riise's lack of form can only be contributed to himself. He seems to want to strike the ball from ludicrous distances and positions on the pitch, which would drive any manager mental nevermind the fans.

Alonso - yeah, no comment there, right? A seemingly nobody transformed into one of the worlds most renowned and sought after holding mids.

by **LittleHobo** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:42 pm

The_Rock wrote:
JohnBull wrote:Can anyone name a player who is better now than when Raffa signed him ?
Nuff Said !

Have to agree with johnbull....players don't really seem to progress under rafa.....

1)Kuyt
2)sissoko
3)voronin - that was fast...he played 5 matches quite well..and its all downhill
4)Crouch - He was good last year....but this year he is so average..rafa has to take his share of the blame for this one.
5)Riise - the most shocking. From being one of the LBs every team wanted to have (he scored loads of goals from LB)...he is a joke now.
6)Alonso -

i agree with johnbull also

only really carragher, arebeloa and crouch have significantly improved

others have come and stayed at the same level in my opinion or got progressively worse

hyypia
finnan
gerrard (was maybe better before rafa came)
alonso (came a great player, now isnt even a garanteed first teamer)
sissoko (came with promise, left a worse player)
reina - if you ask his old team he was a quality keep anyway
mascherano - after watching him in the world cup no way has he progressed under rafa

carragher - has progressed in my opinion
crouch - has improved
benayoun - same
pennant - worse off now than at birmingham
riise - worse
morientes - came a great player, left a good player
kewell - has got worse
kuyt - has got worse
torres - still early days
arbeloa - has improved
bellamy - in his time here he certainly didnt improve
ciise - came a player with great potential,left an awful striker

by **dawson99** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:00 pm

doesnt matter if they have all improved as players, as a team they are worse. thats all that matters

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:03 pm

LittleHobo wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
JohnBull wrote:Can anyone name a player who is better now than when Raffa signed him ?
Nuff Said !

Have to agree with johnbull....players don't really seem to progress under rafa.....

1)Kuyt
2)sissoko
3)voronin - that was fast...he played 5 matches quite well..and its all downhill
4)Crouch - He was good last year....but this year he is so average..rafa has to take his share of the blame for this one.
5)Riise - the most shocking. From being one of the LBs every team wanted to have (he scored loads of goals from LB)...he is a joke now.
6)Alonso -

i agree with johnbull also

only really carragher, arebeloa and crouch have significantly improved

others have come and stayed at the same level in my opinion or got progressively worse

hyypia
finnan
gerrard (was maybe better before rafa came)
alonso (came a great player, now isnt even a garanteed first teamer)
sissoko (came with promise, left a worse player)
reina - if you ask his old team he was a quality keep anyway
mascherano - after watching him in the world cup no way has he progressed under rafa

carragher - has progressed in my opinion
crouch - has improved
benayoun - same
pennant - worse off now than at birmingham
riise - worse
morientes - came a great player, left a good player
kewell - has got worse
kuyt - has got worse
torres - still early days
arbeloa - has improved
bellamy - in his time here he certainly didnt improve
ciise - came a player with great potential,left an awful striker

Complete bollox!
John's stipulation: name ONE player. You've mentioned three, so that negates the rest of your post.

And with that, this thread should now be locked!

by **JohnBull** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:26 pm

You are missing the point !

Whereas good managers buy and improve players - we don't.

Don't quote Gerrard and Carra they are playing for pride and as far as the others are concerned - none of them are as good as when we signed them. Don't you think that this is a bit strange ? or do you block your own brain = NUGGET !

by **Reg** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:52 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Reg wrote:On the whole, they've all improved. The catch is that Utd players are still performing better as a team.

Yeah well no brainer really. They have more quality all round.

It answers the question and puts it into context of why we're not challenging for the championship.

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Mascherano , rafa revived his career

Liverpool FC Forum

Name a player - Who's better now

Who is online