Liverpool FC Forum

by **redtrader74** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:10 am

Emerald Red wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Jack Hobbs, he was bought from Lincoln (league 2) is now at Scunthorpe (championship) he's moved up two divisions, great signing for Benitez

The original question was who Rafa has improved on, both their value and how they play on the pitch. Not his flops. I think John expected none had improved. We've had quiet a few names mentioned already that only a blind man could argue with.

Oh they will

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:11 am

Arbeloa surely has improved, before joining us, he'd never been called up for Spain, now he has...do the math pal.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:12 am

JohnBull wrote:The replies so far are meaningless - the players quoted are playing worse now than ever and if you can't see that you aren't going to the same matches as me !

There is not ONE player who has improved under Raffa but there is a fair bit of a squad who are totally disallusioned and mystified by the management.

I think your argument is just based solely on recent form, which can't be argued with.

by **bigmick** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:25 am

I think the point probably is that while all of the players mentioned have in all likelyhood improved in transfer value terms (although I have to say if anybody offered 20 million for Alonso I'd take it TBPH), they are having extreme difficulty reproducing their best form on a consistent basis. This is not that surprising in all honesty when you consider that they very rarely play with the same team-mates, and often in different formations and even positions.

There is no doubt in my mind that Rafa has bought shrewdly, but equally I think the evidence that the players have lost faith in his methods is as clear as any message in body language ever has been. Once the players collectively chuck the towell in with the manager, the demise is rapid and unfortunately I fear this is where we may be headed.

By far the most unfortunate aspect of the whole debacle is that the American owners must be laughing their socks off. Who woul dhave thought that two months ago they would be able to get rid of their nemesis without barely a ripple of discontent. I said on another thread that all they have to at the moment is stand back and let the manager dig a hole for himself which becomes ever more cavernous. Jurgen Klinnsman? Come the end of the season, unless we improve dramatically and sharpish we'll be trophyless and probably sixth or seventh in the league. By that time, most supporters would take any manager you care to mention I would have thought.

by **slickrick** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:26 am

emerald red, finnan and carra warn't signed by rafa, the question was people rafa signed, can u not read

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:34 am

bigmick wrote:There is no doubt in my mind that Rafa has bought shrewdly

Benitez, as I have pointed out many times, has bought roughly 35-40 1st team players since his arrival, a maxium of 8 have been success. 1 success in every 5 isn't shrewd, it's sh!t.

Reina (best keeper in the world IMO)
Agger (future captain of the club IMO)
Arbeloa (versitile and one of few highs this year)
Alosno (world class for his 1st year, not found that form for a while but still a great player)
Torres (world class, with room for improvement)
Lucas (great youngster who'll come on leaps and bounds in the coming years)
Babel (same as Lucas, also with an eye for goal)
Crouch (for me has been a success, and is highly underrated, deserves as much credit as anybody this season)

A lot of people will argue the case of Mascheranho, but I personally think 18 million for him, is 8 million to much. I think he's a good player, but nothing exceptional. Plus if he plays, that means either Alonso, Lucas or Gerrard is either dropped or played out of position unless we keep this bollox of rotation. I think Gerrard, Alonso and Lucas would of been good enough for next year, with a youngster coming through, rather than 18 million for Mascheranho.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:34 am

slickrick wrote:emerald red, finnan and carra warn't signed by rafa, the question was people rafa signed, can u not read

Does it matter?

They're still better players under Benitez.

Now, you were cheeky there, so I'll be cheeky back - jog on, wise ar*se!

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:40 am

Emerald Red wrote:
slickrick wrote:emerald red, finnan and carra warn't signed by rafa, the question was people rafa signed, can u not read

Does it matter?

They're still better players under Benitez.

Now, you were cheeky there, so I'll be cheeky back - jog on, wise ar*se!

But wasnt it rafa who gave them new contracts?

Anyway, this isnt a player improvement thread its another bitching about recent performances thread !

by **holylamb2006** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:49 am

A lot of people will argue the case of Mascheranho, but I personally think 18 million for him, is 8 million to much

Ye but thats his greedy :censored:

agents its exactly the same for tevez it was something like 60% went to the agents !!!!

If it werent for th agents he would be round 10 mill !!!

by **slickrick** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:51 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
slickrick wrote:emerald red, finnan and carra warn't signed by rafa, the question was people rafa signed, can u not read

Does it matter?

They're still better players under Benitez.

Now, you were cheeky there, so I'll be cheeky back - jog on, wise ar*se!

But wasnt it rafa who gave them new contracts?

Anyway, this isnt a player improvement thread its another bitching about recent performances thread !

obviously gave them new contracts, hardly gonna let them go for free, this thread is stupid anyway, if so many players have improved under rafa then why are we 17 points off top?

?

by **LFC2007** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:53 am

I'll just briefly give you my thoughts on this topic, and give one example.

Jermaine Pennant, is he 'better' under Rafa?;

It's a bit silly really, precisely because he used to play for Birmingham City. He was playing at a much lower level, and made the step up to a significantly higher level. In his case, he's just been unable to make the step up to our level - that's generally the case with most players. It doesn't mean he hasn't improved as an individual, he probably has, because if he went back to Birmingham he could probably play at the very least, to the same level as when he left us.

Those who you might consider to have 'got worse' under Rafa, probably just haven't been able to make the step up to our level. Most could still go to another team at a level they're suited to and perform as they once did.

It's a bit of an ill-defined question in all honesty.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:54 am

holylamb2006 wrote:
A lot of people will argue the case of Mascheranho, but I personally think 18 million for him, is 8 million to much

Ye but thats his greedy agents its exactly the same for tevez it was something like 60% went to the agents !!!!

If it werent for th agents he would be round 10 mill !!!

well then maybe fair enough, but I think we should revert back to Bill Shankly's methods

Shanks "who's he?"

player we wanted to sign "he's my agent"

Shanks "oh right, we're not interested anymore, lost the agent and we might talk to you again"

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:56 am

LFC2007 wrote:I'll just briefly give you my thoughts on this topic, and give one example.

Jermaine Pennant, is he 'better' under Rafa?;

It's a bit silly really, precisely because he used to play for Birmingham City. He was playing at a much lower level, and made the step up to a significantly higher level. In his case, he's just been unable to make the step up to our level - that's generally the case with most players. It doesn't mean he hasn't improved as an individual, he probably has, because if he went back to Birmingham he could probably play at the very least, to the same level as when he left us.

Those who you might consider to have 'got worse' under Rafa, probably just haven't been able to make the step up to our level. Most could still go to another team at a level they're suited to and perform as they once did.

It's a bit of an ill-defined question in all honesty.

diouf seems to spring to mind, wasn't up to the task at Anfield but has been comfortable at Bolton

by **holylamb2006** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:04 am

diouf seems to spring to mind, wasn't up to the task at Anfield but has been comfortable at Bolton

I think Defoe would do the reverse to that

I think Defoe was lacking games and was fustrated wen Jol and Ramos didnt pick him so is dieing for a game !!!

He would be up for it , he is far better than voronin and crouch and kuyt ...

In all honesty i cant belive we didnt snap him up while he was free !!!

by **Elchris** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:11 am

What is the topic starter is looking for , its obvious that many players improved under benitez while under this recent ression the whole team looks bad , if you are judging from that , then you can go :censored:

yourself

Liverpool FC Forum

Name a player - Who's better now

Who is online