Liverpool FC Forum

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:18 pm

If I'd said this last season I'd of even called meself stupid never mind what others might of said, but at this moment in time, I honestly think we're no further on than we were in Houllier's final season, in fact I'd be tempted to say we're worse off because of the "quality" we've supposedly got at our disposal now.

Houllier was often criticised for his negativity and bad signings. Well Benitez has had just as many bad signings and is twice as negative, which is why Kuyt plays more as a 5th midfielder than a 2nd striker. Truth be told the way we're playing is taking me back to days under Graeme Souness, we won a FA Cup under him as well you know.

This is about as a side how much further forwards or backwards are we from Houllier. your thoughts

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:31 pm

Benitez twice as negative and Houllier? You're having a laugh, right?

by **Aaron** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:35 pm

Well we are one Champions League and One FA Cup further on with Benitez than with Houllier. Houllier brough in players like Traore, Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou wheras the brock Rafa brought in are not as bad IMO. We have definitely progressed under Rafa, but has he taken us as far as he can?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:41 pm

So Nunez, Josemi, Morientes, a past his best fowler, Aurellio, Zenden, Kuyt, Voronin and half a dozen more aren't as bad as Houllier's bad buys, of course they are.

In the premiership we're no closer to winning that under Benitez, so are we just a cup team under him? Houllier got us within 8 points, Benitez has only gotten us 9 behind. So that's not exactly shining brightly on this "genius" Benitez. And as for cups, Houllier won us our first UEFA since 76, but that doesn't seem to be held up highly with fans, but Benitez' Champions League win makes him as good as Paisley in people's eyes. I'm not taking away the European Cup success of 05 but that was 3 years ago, we can't contiouslly live off that. Also as I pointed out earlier, we were one FA Cup on under Souness from Kenny, does that make Souness a legend?

I think we DID progress under Benitez, but now we're going backwards and are playing just as we did under Souness in the early 90s

by **burjennio** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:11 pm

god_bless_john_houlding Posted on Jan. 31 2008,22:41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Nunez, Josemi, Morientes, a past his best fowler, Aurellio, Zenden, Kuyt, Voronin and half a dozen more aren't as bad as Houllier's bad buys, of course they are.

In the premiership we're no closer to winning that under Benitez, so are we just a cup team under him? Houllier got us within 8 points, Benitez has only gotten us 9 behind. So that's not exactly shining brightly on this "genius" Benitez. And as for cups, Houllier won us our first UEFA since 76, but that doesn't seem to be held up highly with fans, but Benitez' Champions League win makes him as good as Paisley in people's eyes. I'm not taking away the European Cup success of 05 but that was 3 years ago, we can't contiouslly live off that. Also as I pointed out earlier, we were one FA Cup on under Souness from Kenny, does that make Souness a legend?

I think we DID progress under Benitez, but now we're going backwards and are playing just as we did under Souness in the early 90s

Nunez - free
Voronin - free
Fowler - free
aurellio - free
zenden - free
morientes - looked like a dynamite signing, no one knows why it didnt work

Kuyt - admittedly poor - but lets compare

Kuyt £9.5m. 1.5 seasons 22goals

Heskey £11.5m 5.5 seasons 60 gaols

Cisse £14m 2 seasons 26 goals 2 broken legs

Diouf £10.5m 3 seasons 3 goals.

Any coach that can break the stranglehold of Barca and Real Madrid in Spain with the budget that Valencia had is a genius in my eyes. The CL victory is just gravy after that.

Houllier never had to contend with the Chelsea money machine. He also had Owen and Fowler in their prime, Rafa had an Owen wanting to leave and a Fowler past his best.

Houllier never had to deal with the politics currently running through Anfield like a stagnant river.

Houllier was 10 times the defensive coach Benitez is, his whole system was based around counter attack/long ball. Thats why he struggled at Anfield but scored some memorable results away. Benitez plays a high tempo pressure game, constantly harrassing the opposition by pressing high up the pitch.

Under Benitez we won the BIGGEST PRIZE IN CLUB FOOTBALL, A competition the superclubs value more than any other. The one the Special One couldnt deliver. The one Arsene Wenger hasnt won. The one Fergie stole.

How about cutting the best manager we've had since Kenny Daglish a little slack. After Benitez won La Liga in 2002 he had a poor following season, finishing 5th and going out of the CL to, you guessed it, INTER MILAN on away goals in the QF. co-incidentally many Valencia fans called for his head at the end of such a "disastrous" campaign but the notoriously fickle Valencia board kept him on, and he went on to win La liga and the Uefa cup the following season. Remember,

Nothings over till its over.

by **puroresu** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:18 pm

burjennio wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding Posted on Jan. 31 2008,22:41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Nunez, Josemi, Morientes, a past his best fowler, Aurellio, Zenden, Kuyt, Voronin and half a dozen more aren't as bad as Houllier's bad buys, of course they are.

In the premiership we're no closer to winning that under Benitez, so are we just a cup team under him? Houllier got us within 8 points, Benitez has only gotten us 9 behind. So that's not exactly shining brightly on this "genius" Benitez. And as for cups, Houllier won us our first UEFA since 76, but that doesn't seem to be held up highly with fans, but Benitez' Champions League win makes him as good as Paisley in people's eyes. I'm not taking away the European Cup success of 05 but that was 3 years ago, we can't contiouslly live off that. Also as I pointed out earlier, we were one FA Cup on under Souness from Kenny, does that make Souness a legend?

I think we DID progress under Benitez, but now we're going backwards and are playing just as we did under Souness in the early 90s

Nunez - free
Voronin - free
Fowler - free
aurellio - free
zenden - free
morientes - looked like a dynamite signing, no one knows why it didnt work

Kuyt - admittedly poor - but lets compare

Kuyt £9.5m. 1.5 seasons 22goals

Heskey £11.5m 5.5 seasons 60 gaols

Cisse £14m 2 seasons 26 goals 2 broken legs

Diouf £10.5m 3 seasons 3 goals.

Any coach that can break the stranglehold of Barca and Real Madrid in Spain with the budget that Valencia had is a genius in my eyes. The CL victory is just gravy after that.

Houllier never had to contend with the Chelsea money machine. He also had Owen and Fowler in their prime, Rafa had an Owen wanting to leave and a Fowler past his best.

Houllier never had to deal with the politics currently running through Anfield like a stagnant river.

Houllier was 10 times the defensive coach Benitez is, his whole system was based around counter attack/long ball. Thats why he struggled at Anfield but scored some memorable results away. Benitez plays a high tempo pressure game, constantly harrassing the opposition by pressing high up the pitch.

Under Benitez we won the BIGGEST PRIZE IN CLUB FOOTBALL, A competition the superclubs value more than any other. The one the Special One couldnt deliver. The one Arsene Wenger hasnt won. The one Fergie stole.

How about cutting the best manager we've had since Kenny Daglish a little slack. After Benitez won La Liga in 2002 he had a poor following season, finishing 5th and going out of the CL to, you guessed it, INTER MILAN on away goals in the QF. co-incidentally many Valencia fans called for his head at the end of such a "disastrous" campaign but the notoriously fickle Valencia board kept him on, and he went on to win La liga and the Uefa cup the following season. Remember,

Nothings over till its over.

So Mourinho never won the CL with Porto?

by **burjennio** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:44 pm

not with chelsea my friend, and it was the one that uncle roman wanted more than any other

by **puroresu** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:48 pm

burjennio wrote:not with chelsea my friend, and it was the one that uncle roman wanted more than any other

Not the point and doesnt devalue the achievement. His one it just as many times at Rafa.

by **burjennio** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:30 pm

puroresu Posted on Feb. 01 2008,13:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (burjennio @ Feb. 01 2008,13:44)
not with chelsea my friend, and it was the one that uncle roman wanted more than any other

Not the point and doesnt devalue the achievement. His one it just as many times at Rafa.

my point is about his contributions to Chelsea compared to Rafas with Liverpool.

If we go down that road Rafa won 2 league titles in what was at the time the strongest league in the world with a relatively small club. Mourinho won a league where about 11 of the 16 teams are full of dustmen and roadsweepers. I believe 7 teams in the Portuguese league play in the street.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:24 pm

if Mourinho's champions league success with porto doesn't count for anything, Benitez' winning the spanish title is the same because he hasn't been able to break our duck in the premiership, so having a CV which says you won la liga twice is pointless if you can't win the premiership when managing a premiership side.

by **spion** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:03 pm

Mr Moores got Houllier because he believed we were living in the past & needed to modernise.
They loked at the way Arsenal had changed & in a way revolutionised there whole ethos, understandably Liverpool wanted a bit of that. Liverpool let Houllier buy unknown players because they believed that like Wenger at Arsenal the players Houllier bought would become multi million pound assets with the world at there feet. The realisation by Mr Moores that someone who had become one of his best friends was not up to the job broke his heart & sowed the seeds for the American buy out. Also we needed to realise that as much as it hurts we were not one pf the big boys anymore. This was why Benitez was approached. Benitez had taken Valencia one of the parennial also rans to the top of La liga & that was in the boards opinion what Liverpool needed. I believe that the previous board were spot on & in the next five years we can regain our crown. Houllier dragged the kop into the present & Benitez is using our tradition with modernisation which is the best of both worlds.

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