Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:31 am

nobybob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
The Manhattan Project wrote:No Champions League qualification = Probable sacking.

If hes not sacked then last chance saloon surely and the pressure on him then would be enormous.

Any pressure would be pressure he puts on himself because as prieviously stated i dont think hicks would sack him so soon after his recent full support stament. i also dont believe that fans who were singing RAFA, last week would want his head for a loss to a team such as INTER in a competition that rafa has got us into the final of twice recently, that would be madness

If we don't qualify for the CL, those fans may be singing something different.

If he wins the CL again, he's safe, but he's also got to start closing the gap on Chelsea, Man U and Arsebone

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:39 am

Kharhaz wrote:Sure I understand the anger towards the owners but I also understand how frustrated many are with our performances.

IMO, the two are very much related. What effect has the whole off-field nonsense had on our performances over the last two months? No one can say for sure but it's not been nothing. Would we have challenged this year if there had not been such turmoil behind the scenes? Impossible to say but I, for one, am prepared to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt and one more year to get it right (that is, to properly challenge for the title). In my books, he's due another bite at the cherry after the success he's brought in his time at the club. Others are less patient and that's their prerogative but, for me, sacking him on the basis of this season is a mistake.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:56 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Sure I understand the anger towards the owners but I also understand how frustrated many are with our performances.

IMO, the two are very much related. What effect has the whole off-field nonsense had on our performances over the last two months? No one can say for sure but it's not been nothing. Would we have challenged this year if there had not been such turmoil behind the scenes? Impossible to say but I, for one, am prepared to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt and one more year to get it right (that is, to properly challenge for the title). In my books, he's due another bite at the cherry after the success he's brought in his time at the club. Others are less patient and that's their prerogative but, for me, sacking him on the basis of this season is a mistake.

Fair enough Bob, everyone's opinion is everyone's perogative as you say. I must confess though the notion that had we not had the backroom twoings and frowings we would have been challenging for the title is stretching crebibility a tad in my view. I'm fully prepared to believe it's had an effect on us, but it's looking like we are going to be high teens at least off the eventual winners so I don't know about any genuine challenge.

No backroom squabbling and a sensible method of picking the team and maybe we would challenge, but "Rafa style" and takeovers has been a nightmare combo in many ways.

Still we've tried it four times and it's never at any stage (save for the first six matches this season) put us in with any chance whatsoever of winning the title or even mounting a challenge, so I guess one more year wouldn't hurt too much.

You never know, he might get another year and just think, "feck it, lets just give this settled team b0ll0cks a go for a few games and see what happens". He could even try it for half a dozen games this season, as of about now for instance. I can't believe it will make us play much worse put it that way.

Alas though it won't happen as we all know. No, we'll "style it up" for the remainder of this season, and if we scrape into the Champions League Rafa may well stay and we'll give it another go next season. Then by the time we get to Christmas and we're out of it again somebody will be injured, and one of the other teams will have spent more money than us and we'll be able to fall back on the same reasons again. "Just one more year, it worked in Valencia, remember the Champions League, mark my words it'll work here :;):

"etc etc. Not for me, no more. If we could go forward and actually learn some lessons then I'd be all for it, but I fear we won't.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:11 am

bigmick wrote:[I must confess though the notion that had we not had the backroom twoings and frowings we would have been challenging for the title is stretching crebibility a tad in my view.

No, I'm not going that far, mate. But, I am working on the notion that we were still within touching distance of the leaders when the fallout with the owners really kicked off in November (had it been simmering for longer?). Had that flare up never happened, maybe we would have continued to fall off the pace, as you predicted at the time. Alternatively, we might have had a much stronger December than we did and really put ourselves back in the frame. Who knows? All I know is that we have a far better side than we've been showing for the last couple of months and I just can't chalk the decline completely up to player apathy, Rafa losing the dressing room, Pako leaving or, you guessed it, rotation. IMHO, there's been far too many distractions behind the scenes and our form has suffered as a result. When you couple that with the cup successes we've had in the past three years and with the fact that Rafa has been a fantastic servant of Liverpool Football Club, he's earned a bit more time to get it right in my book. At the very least, he deserves a season where Hicks and Gillett simply support him in the transfer market rather than meddle in his managing. If he were to be given that opportunity and still fail to muster a title challenge I'd be prepared to see him go.

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:14 am

zarababe wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
zarababe wrote:[B/] I'm really disaapointed to see this thread - because we have all spent the last weeks worrying about the ownership, in fact very survival of our club and have backed Rafa to the hilt, because there has been a belief that he, with his luv for LFC, his understanding of the club's heritage and expectations took the bold step of exposing the very real predicatment facing our grt institution; through the huge debt and unfullfillable ambitions held by a coukle of clowns with no money of their own.

Today I find a thread asking us if the real custodian of our club whose sole obsessive focus is to progress and succeed, should go 'anyway'

HELP HELP - have I logged on to the back pages of the Daily Sh.te !

If people on these pages really expect us to win the league within three years of Rafa's reign well u know what Damn him for winning the CL, FA Cup and getting us to another CL Final not to mention the super cup etc - for how dare he win those small things for us when what we really want is the League can you lot really look at yourselves and say winning those have paled in to significance because we oh so want the 'holy grail' get f.uckin over it where we have waited so many year we can fu.ckin well wait more !

It is boring now - Rafa can walk in to any job in the world - and some of you want him out - and for whom that arrogant Maureen who mocked our manager and sulked when Stevie G told him to stuff it? How the tide changes .

Unbelievable this place is - I will watch with glee when Senor Benitez lifts that League title - cos he will do that I promise you - you ungrateful so and so's crave - because frankly with this attitude you and we don't deserve it when you look at the cr.ap the magnificent Rafa has had to put up with - Shame on you !

Winning the CL - what do we want that little cup for [B]

i understand that u are upset , no one is saying that rafa should go , waiting till the end of the season is best thing to do , evaluating him at the end of the season , it's unfair to say that rafa has not been given money , he has had his money not comparable to how much chelsea have spent but an adequate amount , he has bought some bad buys almost nearly 40 million , which could have added 2 more 20 million or so players that we need out of the 3 . It's clear that we need A winger , a top class striker and a gull back who attacks but knows how to defend well also . So let me get back to point , rafa has made mistakes and surely if u deny this then u must be ignorant , his constant rotation and tinkering , weird formations , not taking smaller clubs seriously enough is why we are 12 points behind the leaders and why We nearly did noy qualify for the champions league based on our first 3 games . Yes rafa has won us the champions league , Fa cup , charity shield and also borught us to another final of the CL and also the league cup final , yes he has brought us everything in this 4 years at helm , but one thing we have not challenged for is the league , rafa has the reputation for being a cup manager , a league consists of 38 games and clearly based on previous season and the predicment that we are in , clarly we are not good enough , whether its the players or rafa , it takes 2 hands to clap, the players are not motivated enough , putting in sh!tty displays and i blame that firstly on the hicks and Gillett also i blame it on rafa stubbornness , it was the reason his number 2 left , pako ayesteran , the man who worked clearly with the likes of aimar , vicenete and many other players closely in training at valencia and reported back to rafa . His departure has had its effect on us , rafa looks lost and times , his tatics shock me and his substitutions at times are just berserk . With thay said , i will keep my judgement on rafa whether he should stay or go at the end of the season , it's still a pretty long way to go . We should not get rid of rafa , just because for the sake of it and getting some1 worse , i don't think mourinho would be the man for the job as he was at a club where it supported by a bank . A suitable candidate , if rafa does go would be guus hiddink like some of u have mentioned , Guus hiddink led Australia to the world cup with a team with not many stars , i'd think he be the right man for the job

We have not challenged for the league for many a year - because our players were not good enuff, Rafa has won the league by breaking-up one of the strongets duopoly's in existance - beating Real and Barca to la liga was no mean feet - labelling him a 'cup manager' when he's one the biggest prize in club football is a joke ! He's had money to spend - so have so many others, we can talk about relative amounts getting it right don't happen over night when you are trying to instill a way of playing etc he's also had to come in and change so much more - including the rank and file from academy level.

enoguh said till that point , ok firstly if the players are not good enough , whose fault is it? rafa's right , he bought them in the first place and now they show their true form , crouch for example , can't score for nuts against non leaguers and got a goal from an offside position . Yes he was a top manager but in Spain , and at that time barca and real were going through some hard times too , and at that time don't forget , he had some1 to work with the players closely in training and report back to him , yes that man was Pako Ayesteran , u cud call him the unsung hero , because of rafa he has left also , what i am trying to say is that rafa is no saint , all of have flaws but he is only human , maybe just one more season with a assistant and a transfer budget of 50 to 60 million might allow us to challenge for the league

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:16 am

nobybob wrote:
Bammo wrote:
Its time for this firkin thread to go

I think you need to start a "Maybe it's time for the Maybe it's time for Rafa to go? thread to go?"

LOL is right
I hear all this "no one is bigger than the club" and yeh ok BUT i dunno to me RAFA is an integral part of the club, ans so when people say rafa must go now it hurts, but it hurts all the more when its fellow fans who have gone through it all with rafa the good and the bad- then it really seems like a stab in the back

no one is saying go now , we shall see at the end of the season where we are in the table and what we can take foward to next season , rafa needs a number 2 and some more money find , if i was hicks , 1 more season for rafa , even if we don't win anything this season

by **maguskwt** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:27 am

redtrader74 wrote:Happy scrappies FFS another label Mick??!! How about 'The fickle Faithless!' just as silly.

All those in favour of removing Rafa and the only name that crops up as a replacement is Mourinho, and its said as though he is waiting in the wings ready to take over. IMHO he will NEVER come to LFC as manager (keep dreaming) and why would he? he has already cut his teeth at Porto with average funds, although in their League he was still the biggest spender, has been at a Club where he had a blank cheque, he probably has one big job in him, and is not going to be at LFC, poor funds, no stability. If G&H couldn't swallow Rafas' mildest words of dissent what chance of reigning in Mourinho?

So think again and come up with some new names....oh let me think.....in all the monthes of wanting Rafa out by a variety of posters NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVES have ever been mentioned, and don't forget the minimum criteria, European experience with some success, winner of a top League, Worldwide respect, young enough to build for the future. I suppose that counts out Dave Jones and Paul Jewell

If we win nothing this year and do not reach a final it will be a poor season, (enough to get rid of Rafa?) the previous three years have been in general successful campaigns and have added a lustre to the Liverpool name. They'll be dancing in the aisles at the next Club that Rafa goes to if G&H get their way, and only then will some realise how good a manager he is.

Top Top Post...

by **nobybob** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:31 am

no one is saying go now , we shall see at the end of the season where we are in the table and what we can take foward to next season , rafa needs a number 2 and some more money find , if i was hicks , 1 more season for rafa , even if we don't win anything this season

yep we are agreed 1 more season without the distractions only then can a fair judgement me made on rafa

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:46 am

Hey, How come I don't get a top post

by **akumaface** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:51 am

bigmick wrote: Hey, How come I don't get a top post

Hey Bigmick, This is a top top post.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:52 am

bigmick wrote: Hey, How come I don't get a top post

Happy scrappy mutual appreciation club, mate...we're a closed shop!

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:02 am

Manhattan is confused.

The Liverbird under his avatar was yellow at first.....then it went orange....now it's red.

MANHATTAN HAS DONE NOTHING

HE DOES NOT NEED TO BE PUNISHED BY THE MODS ON THIS SITE

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:11 am

Bad Bob wrote:
bigmick wrote::angry: Hey, How come I don't get a top post

Happy scrappy mutual appreciation club, mate...we're a closed shop!

Ah fair enuff' I s'pose mate. Feck it, let rafa have another year. Now is that a top post or what

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:02 am

bigmick wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Sure I understand the anger towards the owners but I also understand how frustrated many are with our performances.

IMO, the two are very much related. What effect has the whole off-field nonsense had on our performances over the last two months? No one can say for sure but it's not been nothing. Would we have challenged this year if there had not been such turmoil behind the scenes? Impossible to say but I, for one, am prepared to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt and one more year to get it right (that is, to properly challenge for the title). In my books, he's due another bite at the cherry after the success he's brought in his time at the club. Others are less patient and that's their prerogative but, for me, sacking him on the basis of this season is a mistake.

Fair enough Bob, everyone's opinion is everyone's perogative as you say. I must confess though the notion that had we not had the backroom twoings and frowings we would have been challenging for the title is stretching crebibility a tad in my view. I'm fully prepared to believe it's had an effect on us, but it's looking like we are going to be high teens at least off the eventual winners so I don't know about any genuine challenge.

No backroom squabbling and a sensible method of picking the team and maybe we would challenge, but "Rafa style" and takeovers has been a nightmare combo in many ways.

Still we've tried it four times and it's never at any stage (save for the first six matches this season) put us in with any chance whatsoever of winning the title or even mounting a challenge, so I guess one more year wouldn't hurt too much.

You never know, he might get another year and just think, "feck it, lets just give this settled team b0ll0cks a go for a few games and see what happens". He could even try it for half a dozen games this season, as of about now for instance. I can't believe it will make us play much worse put it that way.

Alas though it won't happen as we all know. No, we'll "style it up" for the remainder of this season, and if we scrape into the Champions League Rafa may well stay and we'll give it another go next season. Then by the time we get to Christmas and we're out of it again somebody will be injured, and one of the other teams will have spent more money than us and we'll be able to fall back on the same reasons again. "Just one more year, it worked in Valencia, remember the Champions League, mark my words it'll work here "etc etc. Not for me, no more. If we could go forward and actually learn some lessons then I'd be all for it, but I fear we won't.

Top top top post Mick.

Its so top, because its so true, Rafa wont change his ways, more excuses will be made and by the time Christmas comes around we'll probably be out of the title race next season, as you said.

Also if Hicks and Gillett are to stay, how the feck is Rafa supposed to work with these two morans ?

Its looking like a negative double whammy for me, football wise we're stll miles behind the top three, plus the friction between Rafa and the owners, the future isnt looking so bright now. Especially after these two urchins have taken over.

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Maybe its time for rafa to go ?

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