Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:15 pm

Redman in wales wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Redman in wales wrote:
Paul C wrote:The thing I don't get is how Hick says they will not sell the club but last week said they had talks with DIC in November but the talks fell through over the evaluation of the club.

where did hicks actually say they'd spoken to DIC in november?

source/quotes?

there was nothing about it on this site or in the media as I recall

It was in the one of the press releases, mate. I think it was actually in September and it was DIC looking to by up a minority share in the club on the order of 10-15%. They backed out because the Yanks valued the club at a billion pounds!!! Someone can post up a proper link, I'm sure.

ah ok. I completely missed that. so they never wanted to sell... it was more like give away 10/15% in return for a lotta cash, so they would have to go round re-financing

Yeah, something like that. There was also some idea that the deal would have been conditional on DIC not having a seat on the board, which obviously didn't appeal to them either. (I hope I'm remembering that right...there's been so much "info" circulating round this story of late.)

by **ConnO'var** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:20 pm

s@int wrote:I spotted this article over on YNWA that someone posted, it's from a few years back.

http://www.playthegame.org/Knowled....on.aspx

There are other examples: a contract between Bank of America and Vasco da Gama was intended to cover twenty five years but lasted only two. Worst of all, perhaps, is the case of the Hicks group. This group is a hedge fund based in Texas and linked to President George W. Bush. Hicks took over two teams, Corinthians and Cruzeiro, through contracts that should have run until the year two thousand and ten.

These deals included promises of construction of new stadiums. Hicks also bought forty nine percent of the traffic television network and dreamed up its own ultimate soccer business: Hicks teams facing each other in matches broadcast, naturally, by Hicks. Hicks set up a cable channel in Latin America, PSN, acquired national basketball association rights, formula one races and soccer championships at overblown prices. Hicks invested about five hundred million dollars and in only two years filed for bankruptcy.

I e-mailed the guy to make sure it was "our" Hicks and he replied saying this:

"Of course that the Group Hicks of Corinthians is the same. They also wanted to manage argentine clubs. I remember some years ago I wrote an article called Hicks vs Hicks by Hicks TV. Because they also founded a latinoamerican TV channell called PSN (Panamerican Sports Network). Many people believed it was a great excuse for money laundering. The payed 3or 4 times more the rights for Libertadores Cup, Formula One, NBA and so on, a lot of money. Friends from ESPN told me that it was imposible to make a good business with such a lot of money. Just one year and a half later PSN went on bankrupt. Cheers."

I posted this up on YNWA earlier and the lads have found a couple of articles about it:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BEK/is_12_8/ai_67881225

Carlos Roberto de Mello, Corinthians' vice president for finances, says Hicks, Muse waited too long to reinvest the profits from the trades. "That hurt Corinthians' performance and irritated fans used to a better playing team," he says. He warns that the strategy may cut into future team profits if Hicks, Muse doesn't get busy building the team up again.

But Hicks, Muse's Pan-American Sports Teams President Richard Law defends the decisions. "The reality of any sports franchise is that teams go through cycles as players mature," he says. "Our job is not to turn back the inevitable, but to build Corinthians and Cruzeiro up from the junior ranks," referring to the teams' 16- to 20-year-old players.

They were also supposed to build a 45,000 stadium for Corinthians

As part of a separate deal, Hicks, Muse plans to build the club a new training center in early 2001 and a new 45,000-seat stadium in the next few years.

It never happened.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Corpora....724.cms

Meanwhile, the free flow of capital has resulted in foreigners investing in football clubs, often with disastrous consequences, such as when the American buyout firm Hicks, Muse, Tate & Furst bought Corinthians, Sao Paulo’s leading club.

Corinthians won the World Cup championships in 2000, but the club’s performance subsequently slumped and a political row ensued as fans began to protest about everything from player trades to changes in the colour of jerseys. Hicks, Muse exited three years later, following a row with its local partner.

How the f*ck can a few random lads find out all this information after a 5 minute search of the internet yet the chairman and chief exec of our club can't? Moores and Parry sold us down the river the c*nts.

Also, how has this sh*t not come out in the papers? You'd think someone would have stumbled across this considering Corinthians is Mascherano's former club and it seemed he was at the centre of the row when it first happened.

ripped from RAWK

Sh!t!...... Talk about due diligence...... Did Moores and Parry do any AT ALL??

I can't believe these w@nkers are dragging our name across the mud like they are.... :no

by **stmichael** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:28 pm

The thing is, I dont think we can service the debt even if they load half of it on to the club, the stadium costs will also be loaded on, your looking at around 400-500m debt on the clubs balance sheet, it is unsustainable in the long term and these idiots wont be able to invest anything in the team. :angry:

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:38 pm

I suggest that some members on here should start looking at Reuters from time to time.

I worked on the Stock Market for many years i london (Merrily lynch) and still have loads of friends their. This is how i find out some news like the S*n going in for the FA cup.
When a rumour starts the first thing to do is to look at what the Stock Market is doing, they try to work on true information or on how the rumour could become true and if so what its going to do to the market and they act on that.
aslo a good place for information is bloomberg, this is what they said the otherday
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps....JWS9ShY

as we know now G&H have got the money they were looking for and will not sell the club.
talk of us being sold should stop now and that will be one thing of the players mind.

Still dont change the fact that the Yanks have acted very poor during the last few weeks but as they are our owners it might be better that we try to become friends with them once again. (till they stab us again).

we as fans will not get them to sell the club.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:41 pm

lakes10 wrote:Still dont change the fact that the Yanks have acted very poor during the last few weeks but as they are our owners it might be better that we try to become friends with them once again. (till they stab us again).

Yes, let's just pretend like this whole cack-up never happened and make nice with the owners. FFS, Lakes, there's some things that just can't be forgotten nor forgiven. :no

by **Pedro Maradona** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:41 pm

maguskwt wrote:wow... this is a scary find saint...

scary indeed, what was that :censored:

david moores thinking? that man is an idiot and deserves to be shot with a barrell of his own sh it! as for parry yet more of the same from him.

by **heimdall** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:42 pm

stmichael wrote:The thing is, I dont think we can service the debt even if they load half of it on to the club, the stadium costs will also be loaded on, your looking at around 400-500m debt on the clubs balance sheet, it is unsustainable in the long term and these idiots wont be able to invest anything in the team.

I am fairly confident that DIC will buy them both out, these guys are all about business and if they can make a swift £50 million profit each then they'll be happy enough. At the moment they are just haggling to get more money but I think they are keen to sell, especially since they are now so unpopular. I bet Parry and Moores will get soem kickbacks as well. This all smells very very fishy to me and is a disgrace, Parry has to go and Moores is a clown for selling to the Americans.

by **Pedro Maradona** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:48 pm

lakes10 wrote:I suggest that some members on here should start looking at Reuters from time to time.

I worked on the Stock Market for many years i london (Merrily lynch) and still have loads of friends their. This is how i find out some news like the S*n going in for the FA cup.
When a rumour starts the first thing to do is to look at what the Stock Market is doing, they try to work on true information or on how the rumour could become true and if so what its going to do to the market and they act on that.
aslo a good place for information is bloomberg, this is what they said the otherday
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps....JWS9ShY

as we know now G&H have got the money they were looking for and will not sell the club.
talk of us being sold should stop now and that will be one thing of the players mind.

Still dont change the fact that the Yanks have acted very poor during the last few weeks but as they are our owners it might be better that we try to become friends with them once again. (till they stab us again).

we as fans will not get them to sell the club.

thats the worse ive heard out of you,
we cant have them running liverpool fc they dont have any money, its belong to the bank not them, they are bluffers and they are risking the club not any of there own money
the trouble is that they can hold the club for ransom now.
Moores couldnt see this coming ...what a stupid idiot.

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:55 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Still dont change the fact that the Yanks have acted very poor during the last few weeks but as they are our owners it might be better that we try to become friends with them once again. (till they stab us again).

Yes, let's just pretend like this whole cack-up never happened and make nice with the owners. FFS, Lakes, there's some things that just can't be forgotten nor forgiven.

so ok what we do is to storm every game we play at home, go and hunt them down and hang them from a tree.

face the fact mate there are here for the long run. if we keep the hate up is ony going to get our players down even more.

There is nothing we can do about our owners...unles you have the money for a takeover, even then you would have to change their mind about selling. to start of with they were never going to sell all of the club, some on here had been trying to tell other members that for some time but half of this forum wlaks around woith their head in the cluds still thinking that we are going to win the prem and that the owners are going to sell to DIC and Rafa is still going to be here next year....not going to happen, so unless you feel that you can keep calling for the owners heads for the next 10 years i think you might need to change your mind, for me right now i dont like the owners and they have put this club in the press for all the wrong things , they need to shut up and just habnd some money over for a bit. and we can take it from there.

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:56 pm

If they have the loan they wanted, then it's sh!te news because it's being put on the club (which they said they wouldn't do) and it's gonna be a heavy burden . Now we must protest as loud and as hard as we can ,for as long as it takes to get these feckers away from our club . NO FORGIVE AND FORGET and lets be mates because they've borrowed the dosh. We've got to hound them out and make it seriously impossible for them to want any part of our club.

SHOW THESE FECKERS WE ARE DIFFERENT TO ANYONE ELSE.SHOW THEM WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FAN OF LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB .

We are the true owners of LFC.

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:59 pm

What i am trying to say is that for now the owners are not going to sell, so we need to sit back and give them enough rope, as soon as they find it hard to come up with the next lot of money things might change, you never know they might sort all this money stuff out, they now have the money they were looking for, yes it sucks how they have got the money but that just what happens in Business.

by **woof woof !** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:02 pm

lakes10 wrote:I suggest that some members on here should start looking at Reuters from time to time.

I worked on the Stock Market for many years i london (Merrily lynch) and still have loads of friends their. This is how i find out some news like the S*n going in for the FA cup.
When a rumour starts the first thing to do is to look at what the Stock Market is doing, they try to work on true information or on how the rumour could become true and if so what its going to do to the market and they act on that.
aslo a good place for information is bloomberg, this is what they said the otherday
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps....JWS9ShY

as we know now G&H have got the money they were looking for and will not sell the club.
talk of us being sold should stop now and that will be one thing of the players mind.

Still dont change the fact that the Yanks have acted very poor during the last few weeks but as they are our owners it might be better that we try to become friends with them once again. (till they stab us again).

we as fans will not get them to sell the club.

Your link takes me to a report that is five days old and nowhere in that report does it confirm that Hicks and Gillette have accquired the loan.

so how come you keep saying "they have the money" ?

script from your link

Jan. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai International Capital LLC may buy Liverpool Football Club for 500 million pounds ($980 million) as the British company's owners struggle to refinance debt, the Observer reported, without saying where it got the information.

U.S. investors Thomas Hicks and George Gillett, who beat Dubai International to buy the club last year, need to refinance 350 million pounds of debt owed to Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc by the end of February, the U.K. newspaper said.

State-controlled Dubai International is close to making a bid for the Americans' holdings in Liverpool FC, according to the Observer.

Dubai International spokeswoman Jehad Saleh declined to comment when contacted by Bloomberg today, and Chief Executive Officer Sameer al-Ansari didn't answer a call to his mobile phone.

To contact the reporter on this story: Will McSheehy in Dubai at wmcsheehy@bloomberg.net

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:04 pm

lakes10 wrote:What i am trying to say is that for now the owners are not going to sell, so we need to sit back and give them enough rope, as soon as they find it hard to come up with the next lot of money things might change, you never know they might sort all this money stuff out, they now have the money they were looking for, yes it sucks how they have got the money but that just what happens in Business.

No chance , don't give them a minute at all . Hound the feckers out , we don't want them now , so lets not give them any hope of feeling that they can win us over . Lets not make them feel wanted . Lets make sure that they don't think twice about selling.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:05 pm

Interesting article in the Guardian...

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2242805,00.html

Liverpool ponder move to buy out Hicks

Gillett considers a future without his co-owner
Americans fall out over plans for re-financing

Andy Hunter
Friday January 18, 2008
The Guardian

Liverpool's co-owner George Gillett will spend the next few days deciding whether to support a plan to buy out his partner Tom Hicks or throw his weight behind a refinancing package that would strengthen Hicks's hold on the club.

Gillett and his co-chairman Hicks have almost finalised terms on a £350m loan that would allow them to repay money borrowed for their £218.9m takeover, repay loans acquired to sign players last summer and commence work on their revised plans for a new stadium. The deal, with the Royal Bank of Scotland and US investment firm Wachovia, could be completed early next week providing the two Americans sign the terms on offer.

After a period of instability unprecedented in Liverpool's recent history, Gillett is understood to have grave misgivings over his continued involvement with Hicks, the man he brought on board to secure the takeover last February but who has proved far from the silent partner he originally envisaged. A fresh dilemma for Gillett is that Dubai International Capital, the investment arm of the Dubai government, is now prepared to provide him with the financial backing to make an offer for Hicks's 50% stake in Liverpool.

DIC lost out in the pursuit of the former chairman David Moores' majority shareholding last February when its failure to meet agreed deadlines for the takeover enabled the Americans to succeed with a late and more lucrative bid. Though it withdrew acrimoniously from negotiations DIC has maintained its interest and, having baulked at a £150m asking price for a 15% stake last October, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum's investment company now hopes to capitalise on the disunity in the hierarchy.

DIC is willing to join forces with Gillett in an attempt to persuade Hicks to sell his interest in Liverpool for a substantial profit. A source confirmed yesterday that a deal has been drawn up in principle and will be presented to the Americans before they put their signatures to the £350m loan. "It is a very delicate situation but DIC has reignited its interest," said the source. "The terms of the offer, which will be made to Tom Hicks, have been agreed and DIC are hopeful they will be finally be able to invest in Liverpool."

Major obstacles remain in the way of DIC gaining a financial interest in Liverpool, however, not least Hicks's insistence that he has no intention of selling up. There is also doubt over Gillett's determination to attempt to oust his business partner by agreeing terms with DIC. Gillett and Hicks both have an option to purchase the other's stake in Liverpool, although the former would require backing from Dubai to achieve that goal.

Hicks, owner of the Texas Rangers baseball franchise and the Dallas Stars ice hockey team, created further problems for the American regime this week with the revelation that both he and Gillett, owner of the Montreal Canadiens ice hockey franchise, had approached Jürgen Klinsmann last November as "an insurance policy" against the possible departure of the Liverpool manager, Rafael Benítez.

What was an attempt by the Texan to draw a line under the uncertainty surrounding the future of Benítez has proved hugely embarrassing for Gillett, who is disturbed by the furious reaction among Liverpool supporters it provoked, but it is how much of the £350m loan should be placed on to the club's books that is the fundamental problem.

Both Moores, who became honorary life president of Liverpool under the terms of the takeover, and the chief executive, Rick Parry, have blocked attempts to load all of the debt on to the club amid concerns at annual interest payments of £30m. Under the terms of the loan it is anticipated half will be burdened on the club and the rest secured against Kop Holdings, Gillett and Hicks's parent company, although that still represents a U-turn on their promise to use their own funds and not to adopt the Glazers' handling of Manchester United. The Americans will still require a further £300m loan at a later date to complete work on a proposed new stadium.

Gillett could exert pressure on Hicks to sell next week by refusing to commit to the refinancing package. Should Gillett agree to the loan, and sources yesterday insisted that he remains undecided, then Hicks - the driving force behind the stadium and the biggest threat to Benítez - will be empowered in his plans to bring the development to fruition in 2011 when he can demand a higher price for his stake.

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:06 pm

by the way the only way the owners will make their money back is if we get good results, so one thing they will make sure of is that we have a good team (the best team).

Dont forget atanytime a owners of any club that have 100% of can wrap up the Business, sell the ground to a suppermarket and sell all of the players off and keep the money the end for LIVERPOOL FC and there would be nothing we could do about it, so yes we dont keep having a go at them as Business that are not happy can find bad was to get their own back at the ones that are nasty to them.

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