Liverpool FC Forum

by **RTK** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:30 pm

The events of the past few days have proved what, deep down, we've known for a long time. These two jerry builders are not fit to be associated with our club. Whatever we might have thought about their motives, their personas, their politics, we allowed ourselves to believe that they had a gut sense of Liverpool's special ness, and a good sense of what is the minimum acceptable requirement here in terms of honour and tradition. In short, they gave a good impression of understanding, and cherishing The Liverpool Way.

They said they would build a stadium fit for the world's most legendary football club.

They said they would never contemplate securitising their loans against the club.

They said they'd back our manager.

They lied.

We know this now

We know it for an absolute fact.

Our club is in the hands of disreputable men, men who, if they want success for Liverpool, want it solely in order to fatten up the calf for sale.

The current situation is unworkable. Rafael Benitez, with his ingrained sense of honour, dignity and morality, has been publicly humiliated by Hicks and Gillett (and while Hicks is far and away the baddie of the piece, let's not underestimate the smiling, twinkling George's complicity in all this any more than he has underestimated our intelligence, our nous, and our own ingrained ability to rat out a wrong 'un when they wheedle their way in.) Rafa would have walked away by now but for one small thing the Americans will never 'get'. He loves it here. He loves the club, loves the fans, loves the city, and loves The Liverpool Way. More than anybody at the club, he is desperate to deliver for us that which we long for so badly.

They will sack him in the summer. They have left themselves with no other option. If Hicks had come out on Sunday and said:

"Fair do's Rafa, we were itchy on the trigger, you weren't conforming to the chart flow on our business plan, we wanted you out... but we realise now we got it wrong. Go buy Drenthe, Daniel Alves and Sergio Aguero, and while you're at it, tie up Mascherano long term and here's a new 5 year contract..."

You'd possibly have given them a stay of execution. But he didn't. He gave the manager (and thus the fans, the club, the players) a vote of no confidence in front of, and to the delight of, the world's slavering media. He'll have to sack Rafa in the summer, just to keep face. Unless...

Unless he's not there. And he's not too far from doing one, you know. This whole madcap scheme that George has dragged him into is far, far madder, far more expensive, and far less fun than he'd thought it'd be. He thought it was going to be like planting money seeds and picking dollar bills off the tree in a few years time. He thought Liverpool fans were going to be like Dallas Cowboys supporters, if a little louder - but nonetheless grateful for his patronage, and a little bit cowed by his enormous wealth. What he's found here is that it's difficult, it's cold, it's expensive - and the fans care a little too much about their team. They care so much that they answer back to the owners.

That's what we have to do, comrades - answer back, loud and clear. We know the arguments, we know we're not Geordies, we know there's something very un-Liverpool about all this marching and protesting. But there's something very, very Scouse about the refusal to lie down and toe the party line, the refusal to swallow corporate bullsh.it and the willingness to strike and fight back if we need to right a wrong.

Our immediate target needs to be Foster Gillett. In the way that these flinty oligarchs always send their disappointing offspring away to the furthest, most hostile outposts of their empire to try and toughen them up, Foster has drawn the Liverpool straw. He's only pretending to live here. He spends his time in London, comes up for the Monday meeting, pads around Melwood then vapourises. He doesn't really want to be here. A sustained period of invective targeted at Foster on Monday night will unsettle him further. He'll be straight on the phone to his Dad saying:

"Look what that idiot partner of yours has subjected me to. I'm out of here."

No matter how rich the magnates or how close their partnership, filial loyalty and the need for a father to protect his offspring will come ahead of everything. The splinters we're hearing about in Hicks and Gillett's relationship will become a chasm, with the effect of accelerating their exit strategy.

Be under no illusions. If DIC come in, they'll want to run it as a business, too. Whoever comes in next - and we could be bracing ourselves for a future where ownership changes hands every 5 or 10 years - will never have Liverpool's traditions running through them like we do. But there's a minimum acceptable standard in ownership too, and Hicks and Gillett have fallen badly short. It gives us no joy to recommend it, but we have to drive them out - starting with Foster on Monday night.

These are critical times for Liverpool F.C. If Hicks stays, Rafa goes - it's that simple. And if Rafa goes, the empire he's building crumbles - no-one would even bet against Carra and Stevie Gerrard walking out on the shell that used to be LFC. All and any other reservations and complaints we've got about ticket allocations, ground moves, and horrid purple ties have to be put to one side. Any feeling about Rafa's rotation and tactics. All to one side. This is Us against Them. The Liverpool Way against The American Way. We've got run the bast.ards end of story. Monday night, let them know. Yankees, Yankees fu.ck off home..."

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT RAFA
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT FANS
LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB
IS IN THE WRONG HANDS

Please use this thread for ideas for next Monday night. Catchy ditties that can be aired by all. Get the message acoss vocally to young Foster in the stands and his guardians back across the Atlantic. Post anything you've got below – and we'll sweep through the best of them over the weekend and get them back up, ready for everyone to air on Monday night. Tuesday night against Luton was just the start. We need to flush this cancer out of our club. We can all play our part. Fighting for The Liverpool Way. We want our club back.

We'll fight for the boys in red,
We'll fight the fight for Liverpool,
The team that Shankly bred….

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:44 pm

Fantastic read RTK, I'm sure a few round here will come up with some corkers.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Sums up my thoughts exactly right now.

by **skatesy** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:49 pm

Good read RTK - nice first post too

by **lakes10** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:12 pm

good read.

what i would say is that we should not wind them up too much and heres why.

What some fail to see on this forum is that Liverpool FC is now a business and run by bisnesman for money.
they dont care if they sold us to B&Q aslong as they make some money out of the deal.

If you think once we are sold we will see a big change you are in for a shock, we are now a business and the day of being run by passion of the heart have gone, money will never be put into the club due to someone just loving the club, it will only be put in to make money back.

If the team results dont get beeter under the next buyer it will not be long before they start to think of selling it on or making cut backs.

to make the sort of money thats is being asked for buy the bisnesman we will need to win a cup most years plus a long run in the CL and be in the top 2 of the prem and win it in the next 2 years.

that is what is being asked of this club now we are a business , be carefull what you ask for as you might get it but it could turn out to be worse that what we already have.

Footbal is moving on and it is big business , clubs will be sold on, clubs will go bust.

this is dark times for all football teams and fans.

Love at the top has been lost for football.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:14 pm

lakes10 wrote:good read.

what i would say is that we should not wind them up too much and heres why.

What some fail to see on this forum is that Liverpool FC is now a business and run by bisnesman for money.
they dont care if they sold us to B&Q aslong as they make some money out of the deal.

If you think once we are sold we will see a big change you are in for a shock, we are now a business and the day of being run by passion of the heart have gone, money will never be put into the club due to someone just loving the club, it will only be put in to make money back.

If the team results dont get beeter under the next buyer it will not be long before they start to think of selling it on or making cut backs.

to make the sort of money thats is being asked for buy the bisnesman we will need to win a cup most years plus a long run in the CL and be in the top 2 of the prem and win it in the next 2 years.

that is what is being asked of this club now we are a business , be carefull what you ask for as you might get it but it could turn out to be worse that what we already have.

Footbal is moving on and it is big business , clubs will be sold on, clubs will go bust.

this is dark times for all football teams and fans.

Love at the top has been lost for football.

They are merely custodians of the club, and we are the true owners.

We should wind them up enough so that they take the money and run off back over the Atlantic.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:16 pm

An Open letter to Liverpool's Owners

Posted by Armin on RAWK:

Dear Messrs Gillet and Hicks,

This morning it's possible to open any newspaper in this country and read of the shambles that is Liverpool FC.

In the past we hit the headlines for different reasons, for the trophies won, the honours bestowed upon the club. It was always other clubs that turned their internal affairs into a public soap opera, we looked on in wry amusement, thankful it wasn't us, not 'The Liverpool Way'.

Even when times have been bad on the pitch, Liverpool FC was a source of pride for its supporters. We could point to the quiet dignity with which the club did its business. The sure touch behind the scenes and the unequivocal backing it gave to the man in charge.

In under a year you've managed what many would have thought impossible, not only have you squandered the genuine goodwill you inherited from a carefully staged takeover, but you've destroyed the club's hard won reputation for professionalism and discretion. I can honestly say that if you'd purposely set out to wreck your investment and destroy your credibility with its supporters I doubt you could have done a more thorough job.

Today, as joint owners of Liverpool Football Club you preside over a shamefully undermined manager, an allegedly divided board and a global fanbase horrified at the harm you've done to the most successful club in British football. Quite an achievement.

By all accounts you're finalising a new loan to cover your purchase of the club. What was presented as an investment would become something quite different. Against assurances to the contrary, it seems you mean to settle your debts on the club.

Please, enough. The gap between the fine words and your actions has grown too far. Forget the loan, if there's an offer on the table please accept it, take your windfall and depart. You have other interests to which you can easily turn, we have only one club and it is precious to us.

The trust you have squandered cannot be won back with a PR campaign, player purchases or some slick renderings of a new stadium. Please end this sorry debacle and leave before the unholy mess you've created on this side of the Atlantic gets any worse.

Sincerely.

Matt Owen

by **woof woof !** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:28 pm

Don't disagree with the message by "Armin on RAWK" , pretty much the same sentiments expressed in this forum ,therefore don't see that there was a need to cut and paste or indeed provide a link to them.

by **JohnBull** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:41 pm

From what I'm hearing there is little chance that the Yanks will be here for much longer. What really pysses me off is that it looks like they'll walk away with a £50m profit after messing us about for a year.

DIC should have been brought in last year except for Parry The Pryk so he'll be on his way at the same time. With another big pay-off though.

Do you ever feel we've been set up ? These dodgey muppets have not spent a penny of their own money and will walk away with millions.

This hasn't been business. If you did this in the street you'd be nicked.

by **lakes10** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:12 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:good read.

what i would say is that we should not wind them up too much and heres why.

What some fail to see on this forum is that Liverpool FC is now a business and run by bisnesman for money.
they dont care if they sold us to B&Q aslong as they make some money out of the deal.

If you think once we are sold we will see a big change you are in for a shock, we are now a business and the day of being run by passion of the heart have gone, money will never be put into the club due to someone just loving the club, it will only be put in to make money back.

If the team results dont get beeter under the next buyer it will not be long before they start to think of selling it on or making cut backs.

to make the sort of money thats is being asked for buy the bisnesman we will need to win a cup most years plus a long run in the CL and be in the top 2 of the prem and win it in the next 2 years.

that is what is being asked of this club now we are a business , be carefull what you ask for as you might get it but it could turn out to be worse that what we already have.

Footbal is moving on and it is big business , clubs will be sold on, clubs will go bust.

this is dark times for all football teams and fans.

Love at the top has been lost for football.

They are merely custodians of the club, and we are the true owners.

We should wind them up enough so that they take the money and run off back over the Atlantic.

yes you are right.

but i am also worried who they might sell us to.
some seem to think thar DIC will come and save us, where in fact theuy could come and thing might stay the same, yes we will get the new ground built but Liverpool will only be a side line for them.

they outlay in 2008 will be huge, they are building 5 new ports over the world, the one in Thurrock looks like costing over 100mil with no profit for 10 years, they look like spending over 8bil in 2008. If thing dont work out for them we could just seen the club sold on and on and on.

Shane we dont have some mega rich fans that could come and buy the club.......hold on did they just not sell it to the yanks lol

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:30 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Don't disagree with the message by "Armin on RAWK" , pretty much the same sentiments expressed in this forum ,therefore don't see that there was a need to cut and paste or indeed provide a link to them.

Glad you dont disagree.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:32 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:good read.

what i would say is that we should not wind them up too much and heres why.

What some fail to see on this forum is that Liverpool FC is now a business and run by bisnesman for money.
they dont care if they sold us to B&Q aslong as they make some money out of the deal.

If you think once we are sold we will see a big change you are in for a shock, we are now a business and the day of being run by passion of the heart have gone, money will never be put into the club due to someone just loving the club, it will only be put in to make money back.

If the team results dont get beeter under the next buyer it will not be long before they start to think of selling it on or making cut backs.

to make the sort of money thats is being asked for buy the bisnesman we will need to win a cup most years plus a long run in the CL and be in the top 2 of the prem and win it in the next 2 years.

that is what is being asked of this club now we are a business , be carefull what you ask for as you might get it but it could turn out to be worse that what we already have.

Footbal is moving on and it is big business , clubs will be sold on, clubs will go bust.

this is dark times for all football teams and fans.

Love at the top has been lost for football.

They are merely custodians of the club, and we are the true owners.

We should wind them up enough so that they take the money and run off back over the Atlantic.

yes you are right.

but i am also worried who they might sell us to.
some seem to think thar DIC will come and save us, where in fact theuy could come and thing might stay the same, yes we will get the new ground built but Liverpool will only be a side line for them.

they outlay in 2008 will be huge, they are building 5 new ports over the world, the one in Thurrock looks like costing over 100mil with no profit for 10 years, they look like spending over 8bil in 2008. If thing dont work out for them we could just seen the club sold on and on and on.

Shane we dont have some mega rich fans that could come and buy the club.......hold on did they just not sell it to the yanks lol

Not sure if you understand the reasons for the investments by these guys mate, but as it stands they are rich as anything because of all the oil they flog.

In ten or so years their oil is goign to run out, so they are looking for investments for when that happens.

by **nobybob** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:35 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:good read.

what i would say is that we should not wind them up too much and heres why.

What some fail to see on this forum is that Liverpool FC is now a business and run by bisnesman for money.
they dont care if they sold us to B&Q aslong as they make some money out of the deal.

If you think once we are sold we will see a big change you are in for a shock, we are now a business and the day of being run by passion of the heart have gone, money will never be put into the club due to someone just loving the club, it will only be put in to make money back.

If the team results dont get beeter under the next buyer it will not be long before they start to think of selling it on or making cut backs.

to make the sort of money thats is being asked for buy the bisnesman we will need to win a cup most years plus a long run in the CL and be in the top 2 of the prem and win it in the next 2 years.

that is what is being asked of this club now we are a business , be carefull what you ask for as you might get it but it could turn out to be worse that what we already have.

Footbal is moving on and it is big business , clubs will be sold on, clubs will go bust.

this is dark times for all football teams and fans.

Love at the top has been lost for football.

They are merely custodians of the club, and we are the true owners.

We should wind them up enough so that they take the money and run off back over the Atlantic.

here here

by **stmichael** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:39 pm

RTK wrote:The events of the past few days have proved what, deep down, we've known for a long time. These two jerry builders are not fit to be associated with our club. Whatever we might have thought about their motives, their personas, their politics, we allowed ourselves to believe that they had a gut sense of Liverpool's special ness, and a good sense of what is the minimum acceptable requirement here in terms of honour and tradition. In short, they gave a good impression of understanding, and cherishing The Liverpool Way.

They said they would build a stadium fit for the world's most legendary football club.

They said they would never contemplate securitising their loans against the club.

They said they'd back our manager.

They lied.

We know this now

We know it for an absolute fact.

Our club is in the hands of disreputable men, men who, if they want success for Liverpool, want it solely in order to fatten up the calf for sale.

The current situation is unworkable. Rafael Benitez, with his ingrained sense of honour, dignity and morality, has been publicly humiliated by Hicks and Gillett (and while Hicks is far and away the baddie of the piece, let's not underestimate the smiling, twinkling George's complicity in all this any more than he has underestimated our intelligence, our nous, and our own ingrained ability to rat out a wrong 'un when they wheedle their way in.) Rafa would have walked away by now but for one small thing the Americans will never 'get'. He loves it here. He loves the club, loves the fans, loves the city, and loves The Liverpool Way. More than anybody at the club, he is desperate to deliver for us that which we long for so badly.

They will sack him in the summer. They have left themselves with no other option. If Hicks had come out on Sunday and said:

"Fair do's Rafa, we were itchy on the trigger, you weren't conforming to the chart flow on our business plan, we wanted you out... but we realise now we got it wrong. Go buy Drenthe, Daniel Alves and Sergio Aguero, and while you're at it, tie up Mascherano long term and here's a new 5 year contract..."

You'd possibly have given them a stay of execution. But he didn't. He gave the manager (and thus the fans, the club, the players) a vote of no confidence in front of, and to the delight of, the world's slavering media. He'll have to sack Rafa in the summer, just to keep face. Unless...

Unless he's not there. And he's not too far from doing one, you know. This whole madcap scheme that George has dragged him into is far, far madder, far more expensive, and far less fun than he'd thought it'd be. He thought it was going to be like planting money seeds and picking dollar bills off the tree in a few years time. He thought Liverpool fans were going to be like Dallas Cowboys supporters, if a little louder - but nonetheless grateful for his patronage, and a little bit cowed by his enormous wealth. What he's found here is that it's difficult, it's cold, it's expensive - and the fans care a little too much about their team. They care so much that they answer back to the owners.

That's what we have to do, comrades - answer back, loud and clear. We know the arguments, we know we're not Geordies, we know there's something very un-Liverpool about all this marching and protesting. But there's something very, very Scouse about the refusal to lie down and toe the party line, the refusal to swallow corporate bullsh.it and the willingness to strike and fight back if we need to right a wrong.

Our immediate target needs to be Foster Gillett. In the way that these flinty oligarchs always send their disappointing offspring away to the furthest, most hostile outposts of their empire to try and toughen them up, Foster has drawn the Liverpool straw. He's only pretending to live here. He spends his time in London, comes up for the Monday meeting, pads around Melwood then vapourises. He doesn't really want to be here. A sustained period of invective targeted at Foster on Monday night will unsettle him further. He'll be straight on the phone to his Dad saying:

"Look what that idiot partner of yours has subjected me to. I'm out of here."

No matter how rich the magnates or how close their partnership, filial loyalty and the need for a father to protect his offspring will come ahead of everything. The splinters we're hearing about in Hicks and Gillett's relationship will become a chasm, with the effect of accelerating their exit strategy.

Be under no illusions. If DIC come in, they'll want to run it as a business, too. Whoever comes in next - and we could be bracing ourselves for a future where ownership changes hands every 5 or 10 years - will never have Liverpool's traditions running through them like we do. But there's a minimum acceptable standard in ownership too, and Hicks and Gillett have fallen badly short. It gives us no joy to recommend it, but we have to drive them out - starting with Foster on Monday night.

These are critical times for Liverpool F.C. If Hicks stays, Rafa goes - it's that simple. And if Rafa goes, the empire he's building crumbles - no-one would even bet against Carra and Stevie Gerrard walking out on the shell that used to be LFC. All and any other reservations and complaints we've got about ticket allocations, ground moves, and horrid purple ties have to be put to one side. Any feeling about Rafa's rotation and tactics. All to one side. This is Us against Them. The Liverpool Way against The American Way. We've got run the bast.ards end of story. Monday night, let them know. Yankees, Yankees fu.ck off home..."

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT RAFA
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT FANS
LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB
IS IN THE WRONG HANDS

Please use this thread for ideas for next Monday night. Catchy ditties that can be aired by all. Get the message acoss vocally to young Foster in the stands and his guardians back across the Atlantic. Post anything you've got below – and we'll sweep through the best of them over the weekend and get them back up, ready for everyone to air on Monday night. Tuesday night against Luton was just the start. We need to flush this cancer out of our club. We can all play our part. Fighting for The Liverpool Way. We want our club back.

We'll fight for the boys in red,
We'll fight the fight for Liverpool,
The team that Shankly bred….

good post.

some things are more important than three points and getting them out falls into that category. 40,000 fans giving it some in the ground, in a game thats being televised live will get the message across.

parry was let off the hook over the ballot because people didn't want to ruin the teams send off before athens or ruin robbies last game. there's nothing like that at stake on monday night though, so let's do it.

by **hello_red** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Well never before has Liverpool FC been in this situation. Actually the way we are being ran is quite unique in the history of English football. Not the way Rafa has been treated but the way that the club as a whole is being turned into a piece of global consumerism. We need to sell our product better across the world but not like this.

WE HAVE CREATED A GOLLUM!!!

:sniffle

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