Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:27 am

I know lucas has potential to become a world class midfielder.... I don't know about babel mate... he seems to have potential but I'm starting to doubt this potential... he's definitely not a winger but at the same time he needs to be deadlier as a forward IMO... right now he doesn't have a striker's instinct...

by **Ciggy** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:58 am

Oh dear, I wasnt being rascist atall, some Surinamers are lazy here in Holland they waltz around like they dont have a care in the world smoking weed all day.

The same as some English people are lazy.

Anyway back to topic.

by **Red @ Heart** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:15 am

Ciggy wrote:Oh dear, I wasnt being rascist atall, some Surinamers are lazy here in Holland they waltz around like they dont have a care in the world smoking weed all day.

The same as some English people are lazy.

Anyway back to topic.

hmmmm off topic, but what nationatily are you, im confused, somtimes i think your english then i see posts like that and think your Dutch,

Help!!

by **Ciggy** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:29 am

Red wrote:hmmmm off topic, but what nationatily are you,

British living in Cloggy land.

by **mattylfc** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:37 am

Personally i think the only way that Babel will not become world class is if Rafa starts changing the way that Babel plays. The thing i like about Babel is the fact that he is very direct. He has all the confidence in the world to run at defenses and if he doesnt get past the first time, he will make sure he does the next time. We have already seen a drastic change in the way that bith Kuyt and Voronin play since arriving at liverpool. When they first came they were both utilized as a main striker playing high up the pitch but of late they have been used much more out wide. For me, this doesnt work at all and i think Rafa must take a fair share of the blame with Kuyt and Voronins form.

Bable is obviously different as he has the pace flair to play out wide but i just hope we dont change him too much and take that attacking threat out of him.

As for Lucas, i really rate him and get excited about him everytime i see him (not in a gay way). He always wants the ball, he can pass, tackle, get forward and most importantly he looks like he has a cracking attitude.

In summary, both have bags of potential and both are worth every penny.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:55 am

I am still not 100% sure on Babel, there is a lot of potential there but whether he will ever overcome the obvious limitations to his game and develop into a top class player I am not sure. Most strikers have a favourite foot and adjust their bodies accordingly so that they can use that foot even when it should be easier to use their "wrong one". Babel doesnt adjust his body very well and consequently has to push the ball away from himself to create room to get his shot off. This often leads to him stopping virtually dead before he can strike the ball. (like when you watch kids in the park). Running onto a ball he doesn't have this problem and hits the ball as cleanly as anyone, but receiving the ball, moving forward and hitting it is where he has problems.

Lucas I don't really have any doubts about other than he will struggle to get the required minutes on the park. I was taken with Micks idea of playing him in a more forward role as a creative second striker earlier in the season and would have really liked him to have been given a chance in that role. He may not be a natural finisher but then again neither is Kuyt

He seems to have a good eye for a quick pass and moves well for the return, not just standing there admiring his pass.

Whether he could play with his back to goal, take the kicks and knocks from behind and still pick out his passes is another matter, but I would like to see him given a go, but as a creative second striker, not an attacking midfielder with defensive duties (ala Gerrard)

Certainly I think he will struggle to dislodge any of our midfielders, so it might be a way to give him a run in the team. Scholes for example played that role to perfection for a few years before settling into a deeper role.

by **club_Levis** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:59 am

Bad Bob wrote:I agree that Babel's not at his best when played out wide. I've also seen a lot of people wondering when we're going to see him partnered with Torres up top. So, my second question is whether that partnership would actually work? That is, is it one of those partnerships that sounds great on paper (Think of the flair! Think of the pace!) but never quite clicks on the pitch? Would Babel actually be a good foil for Torres? Answers in an envelope...

It should work mate....Looking at Ryan's goal yesterday you could see the telepathy between him and Torres as their pace tore the defence apart. This pair will work and is our strongest.

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:38 am

With regards to Babel first i was arguing with me mate throughout the game last night, he was saying he is not good enough saying he cant even beat a first division full back etc.
But to be honest its blatantly obvious that he is not a winger, he doesnt have the tricks and doesnt have a left foot so the full back knows he is going to cut back inside virtually every time.
What he is though is a massive goal threat, he looks to get shots off all the time and they are vicious with decent accuracy and from range he looks like he will score as well.
He is definately a little raw and his decision making needs to improve, but it doesnt help playing in our team really, where the movement and options arent always great. I said this in another thread but with our wide players they are often given the ball and then expected to create something out of nothing, no overlapping runs giving the full back something to think about.
Babel will become a very very good player i am sure of that, lets hope he keeps getting brought through as he is now, but also lets hope he is given a run of games as a striker.
His goal scoring record for his first season is pretty impressive and in limited time on the pitch.

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:03 am

At the risk of alienating myself and facing the wrath of everyone who doesnt BUT, to appreciate Lucas you have got to watch him live at the ground in the flesh.

His movement is fuc.king awesome, his touch is a joy and the space he makes, both with the runs and with simple balls is beneficial to everyone else on hte team.

If you think of this time (ish) last season, we had Gerrard and Momo and Alonso on our books, we now have MAscharano, Gerrard, Lucas and Xabi. What a quartet that is, and each one is different.

Lest we forget that Lucas won the Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball) in South America, the youngest ever to do so, and joined the following list:

2006 : Lucas (Grêmio)
2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
2004 : Robinho (Santos FC)
2003 : Alex (Cruzeiro)
2002 : Kaká (São Paulo FC)
2001 : Alex Mineiro (Atlético Paranaense)
2000 : Romario (Vasco da Gama)
1999 : Marcelinho (Corinthians)
1998 : Edilson (Corinthians)
1997 : Edmundo (Vasco da Gama)
1996 : Djalminha (Palmeiras)

Not bad company I am sure you will agree.

As for Babel, I am personally not convinced, I can see flashes of brilliance, but also tinged with lack lusrte moments. And his left foot at this stage is just for standing on. Belter of a right peg by the way, thunderbolts.

by **skatesy** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:10 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:At the risk of alienating myself and facing the wrath of everyone who doesnt BUT, to appreciate Lucas you have got to watch him live at the ground in the flesh.

His movement is fuc.king awesome, his touch is a joy and the space he makes, both with the runs and with simple balls is beneficial to everyone else on hte team.

If you think of this time (ish) last season, we had Gerrard and Momo and Alonso on our books, we now have MAscharano, Gerrard, Lucas and Xabi. What a quartet that is, and each one is different.

Lest we forget that Lucas won the Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball) in South America, the youngest ever to do so, and joined the following list:

2006 : Lucas (Grêmio)
2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
2004 : Robinho (Santos FC)
2003 : Alex (Cruzeiro)
2002 : Kaká (São Paulo FC)
2001 : Alex Mineiro (Atlético Paranaense)
2000 : Romario (Vasco da Gama)
1999 : Marcelinho (Corinthians)
1998 : Edilson (Corinthians)
1997 : Edmundo (Vasco da Gama)
1996 : Djalminha (Palmeiras)

Not bad company I am sure you will agree.

As for Babel, I am personally not convinced, I can see flashes of brilliance, but also tinged with lack lusrte moments. And his left foot at this stage is just for standing on. Belter of a right peg by the way, thunderbolts.

Thanks for that post man. I have done a little bit of research into Lucas' football history but I was unaware of the fact that he won the Bola de Ouro. That is quite impressive stuff, to win that award - especially when you consider some of the other names who are on it.

by **bigmick** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:12 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:As for Babel, I am personally not convinced,

Yeah I'm not being rude or anything mate but to really appreciate Babel, it's no good being in the ground you've got to watch him on the telly

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:03 pm

bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:As for Babel, I am personally not convinced,

Yeah I'm not being rude or anything mate but to really appreciate Babel, it's no good being in the ground you've got to watch him on the telly

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:07 pm

Leonmc0708- I've got to agree with you that Lucas is very gifted young player. I am very impressed with his qualities too, it's no surprise to me that R Madrid want him, he just has so much class for a 20 yr. old. Lucas is one of those players that you do not notice during the match, but he can make everything tick with his slick, fast passes(kind of like Fabregas). I've seen enough of Lucas to know that with proper coaching he could be a great player for us. But he really needs to break into the first team soon to be a success.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:16 pm

I'm where most people are on both of these lads. First and foremost I'm delighted we have them.

Lucas is one of those players that has come in, presumably to be slowly integrated into the side, but he's been so obviously good that you worry about him moving on, simply to get the number of games his talent deserves. He clicked into the team from minute 1 of his Prem debut, and every time he's appeared he's been first rate. Some of his touch and his vision is an absolute joy, and if we're wanting the pass and move tradition to return, he's ideal. His passing looks absolutely effortless, but it's so intelligent and well-weighted that in all fairness he's made some of our other players look ordinary in that regard. We're going to struggle to keep all three of him, Alonso and Masch happy, that's for sure, as they're obviously starting quality at most clubs.

Babel firstly needs to be given a position. He's started as a winger, and he's come on after an hour in games up top. Against Luton he gave them problems on the wings, but against lower-end Prem teams he's been absolutely anonymous, and it's clear to most people that he's just occupying a position out on the left as opposed to owning it. Rafa has to play him up top with Torres for a month or so, I reckon, and see what transpires. None of the our other striking combinations have regularly hit it off, and seeing as though our league form has stagnated, I think an injection of pure pace up top is as good a solution as any. Get the new lad in at the back, get the defensive line further up the pitch, pin the opposition back and I can see plenty of goals. Babel's got a bit of selfish immaturity about his game, and some of his decision-making isn't the best, but he's also got vision and a very classy passing game, which Torres and Gerrard could really profit from.

Bags of potential there in both, that's for sure.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:26 pm

bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:As for Babel, I am personally not convinced,

Yeah I'm not being rude or anything mate but to really appreciate Babel, it's no good being in the ground you've got to watch him on the telly

Liverpool FC Forum

Particularly Lucas but also Ryan Babel, - I know it's early but ..........

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