Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:18 pm

the speculation on rafa's future IMO is really affecting our players' performance on this pitch... there's no movement in our plays... stevie gerrard had again less than average game... but so did the others... only torres seemed to be up for it... Voronin is not good enough for us end of...

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:22 pm

bigmick wrote:It is an unfortunate fact that those who are avid supporters of Rafa attempt to smear anybody who doesn't buy into the mantra, or any theory which may suggest there might be an alternative.

Well, if we go by the mantra the Rafa haters abide by, managerial track record is irrelevent if the achievements of those managers were not in the EPL. It's what happens in the League in THIS country they say. Therefore, the 5 Italian titles Lippi has to his name, the six eredivisie titles Hiddink has to his, or the World Cup Victory Scolari has to his name, count for nothing.

We may aswell employ Aidy Boothroyd.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:22 pm

LittleHobo wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:
I8BlueNoses wrote:
Dundalk wrote:Where is this player gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRr36ihAnZU

he never signed for Liverpool FC...

Kuyt has put on alot of weight from that video, also thinking we fought off Newcastle to sign him, says its all really ...

it could be rafa ya know

for some reason for us kuyt has to virtually play as a centre mid

he is rarely in the box

that must be rafa asking him to do that

Come off it. How could it be Rafa? As someone mentioned in another thread, sooner or later a player's natural game will bypass whatever the manager has instructed. If he's instinctive enough - as he should be - he'll find the need to get into goal scoring areas. He doesn't often do this, but when he does we've all seen the results which aren't good by any standard. Simple fact is Kuyt can't hack it in this league as a predator. He's too slow and makes too many poor runs. Is that Rafa's fault? As for his weight, I'd say that's more down to natural reasons as he's gotten older.

how could it be rafa?

easy

rafa tells the players what to do

kuyt is asked to fill in as a 5th midfielder most of the time and is sometimes asked to play right wing

if he was brought as a goalscorer why is he being asked to do this?

Right, so you're saying that Rafa bought him with the intentions of telling him to run about chasing the ball down, rather than concentrate on scoring goals? Yeah, sure - dead on!

He bought him as a forward to score goals. Maybe his running around tracking the ball is more in his natural game than scoring is. It's just perhaps that in this league, it doesn't work for him. Rush did the same, only Rush did the job at the end of the pitch that mattered most. Kuyt just isn't good enough and that is not Rafa's fault. However, what is Rafa's fault is that if he doesn't realize it by now then it's a detriment to the side, but what can he do if he now knows that he probably won't have a job by the end of the season, and has been told that he can't sell or draft in players that he wishes to. If I were Rafa, I wouldn't give a f*ck either.

by **lakes10** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:23 pm

there is some :censored:

being posted on some other forums ,someone said that Rafa told the players that this was his last game.

what a load of :censored:

, yes i think Rafa should go( not sure if it should be now or at the end of this football year) but he would never do it this way.

by **holylamb2006** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:23 pm

the speculation on rafa's future IMO is really affecting our players' performance on this pitch... there's no movement in our plays... stevie gerrard had again less than average game... but so did the others... only torres seemed to be up for it... Voronin is not good enough for us end of...

I think that is the main reason why we arent our best !!!!!

Voronin hasnt ever been good enough ..

Gerrard frustrated along with other players !!

Torres is always up for it

I dont think he is affected that much by the media !!!

And wen manu winning 6-0 will only make it worse ...

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:24 pm

Another shocking performance today, with Torres providing the only glimmer of class in a dire, dire affair. We were so p!ss poor at the fundamentals that you'd be forgiven for thinking we're a mid table outfit. I won't bother giving the laundry list of poor performances because it was another collective display of ineptitude (although I do hope that we'll be able to count Voronin's future appearances in a red shirt on one hand, with fingers left to spare). The team, IMO, looks like a group of players who don't know which way is up at the moment given all of the rumours and backroom politicking. I don't think Rafa's lost the dressing room or the players have given up playing for him. But, there's no question the club's in limbo at the moment and the performances on the pitch suggest a team that has lost focus in the midst of it all.

On to Rafa and his team selection. As usual, a few puzzling decisions and some, shall we say "interesting" substitutions. Not having Crouch even on the bench is the most bizarre, I think. I get the impression that he sees Crouch and Torres as playing a similar role and, thus, won't start them together very often. But, surely there's a place for the big man on the bench? Voronin is shockingly poor and very wasteful in possession--he should not be starting tricky (for us, anyway--we're always rubbish at Boro) away games at all. Someone's questioned Arbeloa at LB earlier but, of course, some of Arbeloa's finest performances have come in that position for us. Today's was not one of them, however, and any tactical advantage to playing him there in order to push Riise up to LM is surely nullified by the fact that Riise is shocking as a midfielder. I applaud the half-time switch to bring Babel on but bringing Alonso on for Benayoun just led to problems with the formation and did nothing to get Gerrard into the game.

We are a team in free fall at the moment and it's gut check time for everyone involved. Let's hope Rafa and the lads pull their fingers out midweek and give Luton the tonking needed to get us back to winning ways.

by **bigmick** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:28 pm

Good post Bob and some very sensible points.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:29 pm

maguskwt wrote:the speculation on rafa's future IMO is really affecting our players' performance on this pitch...

Totally agree. Carra's comments to the contrary in the press this week smack of a man who is trying to convince himself and his teammates that they can somehow just push all of the speculation out of their minds. Their performances on the pitch tell a different story, however.

by **LegBarnes** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:29 pm

bigmick wrote:
ClONMEL_RED wrote:I like rafa , and am not on either side of the fence when it comes to whether he should go or not ,,,,but id like to know why ppl don't think a Lippi , Mourinho, Scolari( not with portugal after euros) guus hind.... a countless other managers---- wud be capable of doing a better job. Not sayin you are wrong - but people just make these statements like there is no one better out there , when there is a lot of good managers out there.....

It is an unfortunate fact that those who are avid supporters of Rafa attempt to smear anybody who doesn't buy into the mantra, or any theory which may suggest there might be an alternative. That said, some of the posters who criticise the manager do it with the glee of a thug putting the boot in to a man whom lies stricken on the ground, so it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

FWIW Rafa is not a fecking idiot IMHO, nor is he a footballing genius. We won a Champions league under him somewhat fortuitously but we won it, and we lost a final last year which we probably ought to have won. On the way to those achievements and the FA Cup win, he gave the club some of the most memorable nights in its history.

He has improved the club massively since Houlliers days, but he over tinkers with the team and it has a hugely detrimental effect both on morale and results. We will IMHO still get fourth, and he is probably the best man in World football at plotting a Champions League campaign, particularly when he hasn't got to worry about the league, which of course he hasn't. His record in the League BTW is extremely poor and doesn't appear to be improving or in fact looking like it will improve in the future. He is a good man who loves the club, but of course there will be alternatives at the end of the season, and no the players won't all leave en masse should a new manager come in.

If you agree with half of the statements above, you area true fan. The other half unfortunately renders you clueless. Such is life I'm afraid, but that's kind of how I see things at the moment.

i aint agreeing cos i am true fan (but i am ha ha) but that is pretty much how i feel about rafa i dont hate the guy but he puts our club in problems every year in league and since i know most english based liverpool fans want the prem more then any thing else i think he might have to go sad because he is a really nice , funny , smart bloke who also has a great cup record and i like him but in life you cant have it every way.

by **Dundalk** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:30 pm

lakes10 wrote:there is some being posted on some other forums ,someone said that Rafa told the players that this was his last game.

what a load of , yes i think Rafa should go( not sure if it should be now or at the end of this football year) but he would never do it this way.

Where are you hearing that shit?

by **LegBarnes** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:31 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
maguskwt wrote:the speculation on rafa's future IMO is really affecting our players' performance on this pitch...

Totally agree. Carra's comments to the contrary in the press this week smack of a man who is trying to convince himself and his teammates that they can somehow just push all of the speculation out of their minds. Their performances on the pitch tell a different story, however.

yes and i have never seen carra so stressed on the pitch then i seen today i meen its carra he gets stressed but i thought he was gonna knock the ref out today when he gave a corner in 2nd half. :Oo:

by **burjennio** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:33 pm

bigmick Posted on Jan. 12 2008,20:09
Quote (ClONMEL_RED @ Jan. 12 2008,19:55)
I like rafa , and am not on either side of the fence when it comes to whether he should go or not ,,,,but id like to know why ppl don't think a Lippi , Mourinho, Scolari( not with portugal after euros) guus hind.... a countless other managers---- wud be capable of doing a better job. Not sayin you are wrong - but people just make these statements like there is no one better out there , when there is a lot of good managers out there.....

It is an unfortunate fact that those who are avid supporters of Rafa attempt to smear anybody who doesn't buy into the mantra, or any theory which may suggest there might be an alternative. That said, some of the posters who criticise the manager do it with the glee of a thug putting the boot in to a man whom lies stricken on the ground, so it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

FWIW Rafa is not a fecking idiot IMHO, nor is he a footballing genius. We won a Champions league under him somewhat fortuitously but we won it, and we lost a final last year which we probably ought to have won. On the way to those achievements and the FA Cup win, he gave the club some of the most memorable nights in its history.

He has improved the club massively since Houlliers days, but he over tinkers with the team and it has a hugely detrimental effect both on morale and results. We will IMHO still get fourth, and he is probably the best man in World football at plotting a Champions League campaign, particularly when he hasn't got to worry about the league, which of course he hasn't. His record in the League BTW is extremely poor and doesn't appear to be improving or in fact looking like it will improve in the future. He is a good man who loves the club, but of course there will be alternatives at the end of the season, and no the players won't all leave en masse should a new manager come in.

If you agree with half of the statements above, you area true fan. The other half unfortunately renders you clueless. Such is life I'm afraid, but that's kind of how I see things at the moment.

Spot on, the character assassination on here by the
"Rafa-ites" borders on assault and on the other hand the Hedimall/Peewee "Lets prey we lose so we can stick it to the manager" mentality has no place on a Liverpool forum, tho now I think they're gonna get their wish sooner rather than later because now I believe after the last few performances, especially the dross that was dealt out today at the Riverside has me convinced that both the players and the manager think that the partys over, the manager is on borrowed time and everyones running along in 2nd gear. Cue the above mentioned posters to dish out several comments about my IQ and sexual preferences

by **holylamb2006** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:39 pm

yes and i have never seen carra so stressed on the pitch then i seen today i meen its carra he gets stressed but i thought he was gonna knock the ref out today when he gave a corner in 2nd half

Oh man do not talk about the ref he was SHAMEBOLIC !!! imo

and did anybody watch after the match on setanta the fat chap talking bout liverpool

He was saying Carragher was over rated ....

He said Gerrard was only looking for his name in headlights :angry:

by **LegBarnes** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:48 pm

holylamb2006 wrote:
yes and i have never seen carra so stressed on the pitch then i seen today i meen its carra he gets stressed but i thought he was gonna knock the ref out today when he gave a corner in 2nd half

Oh man do not talk about the ref he was SHAMEBOLIC !!! imo

and did anybody watch after the match on setanta the fat chap talking bout liverpool

He was saying Carragher was over rated ....

He said Gerrard was only looking for his name in headlights

i didnt watch but its clear to me all TV channels have it in for liverpool atm.

Mabye apart from LFCTV and BBC are ok but rest hate us atm.

Also every soccer sat poor phil tompson gets riped about how liverpool havent won title for 19 years bla bla bla fu.cking gets on my t!ts.

by **roberto green** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:49 pm

i think that Rafa has improved considerably on Houllier with the spine he has built and with the team if he stuck to the same team.But he doesnt stick to his best team he thinks the squad is capable of somehow working like a fine oiled machine and no matter what part he changes the other part will come in and fit in and he will get the same results in doing so, so this being that the less he works the parts the better duration they will be long term.

You only look how well Everton have done, Moyes is sticking to what he knows is his best 11.Ultimatly Rafa is now putting the nails into his own coffin because after 4 years in the premiership he has not learned how to play in this league and for all the good he has brought to us it is plain and clear that he will never win the league for us.

When we get our next manager hopefull we get a manager that lets the players play with freedom and purpose and play some entertaining football and move on more dead wood in Risse, Voronin, Penant and Kuyt......

plus a cash injection.....

I know not asking for much am I?

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