Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:34 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:
puroresu wrote:Rafa wants 11 robots who all do what he says. No imagination, no flair, no trying things out of the odinary. Just do what the Manager says and thats it. Its pathetic but will not change as its been that way for years. Creative freedom isnt allowed under Rafa!!

We didn't draw today because of an absence of flair. We drew today because our players lobbed the ball up in the air to no-one in particular. I don't believe for a second that Rafa's sending his team out to do that.

This is what happens when our passing game turns to sh*t. A player gives the ball away a couple of times at close range, and then the next time it's a hopeful punt forward. Maybe having Crouch on the pitch would make that less of a problem, but when Voronin's the man under it against two decent size defenders, we're going to keep going backwards.

Really. I've seen to much long ball football from Liverpool this season. Its happened so often I have to wonder whether they are doing this cos the manager says so. If not why doesnt he get them to stop.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:35 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How is it, that in Istanbul, against all the odds at half time, 45000 fans can still have believe in their side and sing their hearts out. Yet come on this forum on match day at the end of a fairly bad performance with a defeat or draw and all of a sudden the team is sh*t and the manager has to go. Fair enough, it's a string of poor performances, but as it happens often in life, people do go through bad times. What's important is that they get the support to get them through it. Where's the f*cking support now, eh?

Oh I was hoping you were going to tell me why Rafa is so great, you told me how he was great on one night nearly 3 years ago, and I agree that he was, that was an unbelievable night but owed far more to Stevie than to Rafa.
In any case you need to stop living in the past and focus on the trouble we are in now. Rafa is not motivating the team and he is picking the wrong players and formations, that is why me and a lot of other people want rid of him.

Please try and answer without swearing

OK, so I hear that manger badges can be gotten dirt cheap these days by attending the course. Tell you what: why don't you scrape a few notes up and get yer badges. Or maybe get on the blower and tell Rafa what he should and shouldn't be doing. Sorted. We'll win the title under your expert advice in no time. Rafa will be all ears I'm sure.

It's great. I love all this "sack Rafa" nonsense, yet one person has yet to balance that statement by giving us an in-depth explanation of who it was we should replace him with and why this person would be ideal. Fountains of wisdom.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:35 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How is it, that in Istanbul, against all the odds at half time, 45000 fans can still have believe in their side and sing their hearts out. Yet come on this forum on match day at the end of a fairly bad performance with a defeat or draw and all of a sudden the team is sh*t and the manager has to go. Fair enough, it's a string of poor performances, but as it happens often in life, people do go through bad times. What's important is that they get the support to get them through it. Where's the f*cking support now, eh?

Oh I was hoping you were going to tell me why Rafa is so great, you told me how he was great on one night nearly 3 years ago, and I agree that he was, that was an unbelievable night but owed far more to Stevie than to Rafa.
In any case you need to stop living in the past and focus on the trouble we are in now. Rafa is not motivating the team and he is picking the wrong players and formations, that is why me and a lot of other people want rid of him.

Please try and answer without swearing

Houllier got the sack even though he won the treble 3 years before that...(ie...for all those new LFC fans who just came aboard when rafa came here or after we won the champions league..we won the treble in 2001 and he was asked to go in 2004).

3 years....and that was from david moores. I don't think why rafa should be treated any better than houllier....

The way i see it either win the FA cup or the Champions league...or rafa has to go...as there is no marked improvement in our team.

by **puroresu** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:37 pm

The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How is it, that in Istanbul, against all the odds at half time, 45000 fans can still have believe in their side and sing their hearts out. Yet come on this forum on match day at the end of a fairly bad performance with a defeat or draw and all of a sudden the team is sh*t and the manager has to go. Fair enough, it's a string of poor performances, but as it happens often in life, people do go through bad times. What's important is that they get the support to get them through it. Where's the f*cking support now, eh?

Oh I was hoping you were going to tell me why Rafa is so great, you told me how he was great on one night nearly 3 years ago, and I agree that he was, that was an unbelievable night but owed far more to Stevie than to Rafa.
In any case you need to stop living in the past and focus on the trouble we are in now. Rafa is not motivating the team and he is picking the wrong players and formations, that is why me and a lot of other people want rid of him.

Please try and answer without swearing

Houllier got the sack even though he won the treble 3 years before that...(ie...for all those new LFC fans who just came aboard when rafa came here or after we won the champions league..we won the treble in 2001 and he was asked to go in 2004).

3 years....and that was from david moores. I don't think why rafa should be treated any better than houllier....

The way i see it either win the FA cup or the Champions league...or rafa has to go...as there is no marked improvement in our team.

CL maybe. FA cup isnt enough.

by **Thinkpad** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:37 pm

Red Dotty wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How is it, that in Istanbul, against all the odds at half time, 45000 fans can still have believe in their side and sing their hearts out. Yet come on this forum on match day at the end of a fairly bad performance with a defeat or draw and all of a sudden the team is sh*t and the manager has to go. Fair enough, it's a string of poor performances, but as it happens often in life, people do go through bad times. What's important is that they get the support to get them through it. Where's the f*cking support now, eh?

I FECKING LOVE LIVERPOOL

Emerald Red's argment is flawed.. Yes Rafa and the team won the CL then and everyone there was as equally stuned with the results. It was a "freaked" results that you get to see almost only once in a lifetime. We can't keep using it as the "reason" to reject any comments or idea on that basis.

Does that win equal unlimited time for rafa? We need to understand, we are Liverpool supporters not Rafa supporters. Everyone seems to forget that Houlier too delivered a major trophy for us when he came and became untouchable. See what happened next. History tends to repeat itself because we never learn. We must have the option to remove someone who has even after his acheivement is no longer relevent to us. To succeed we will have to be ruthless sometimes. We have to ask the question, who's supporter are anyway.. Liverpool or Rafa? And there is a distintion..

by **bigmick** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:37 pm

s@int wrote:Torres goal was fkn ace though wasn't it. The leagues gone, so a draw away even against a crappy Boro isn't the end of the world..... now. We just need to start playing a bit better and the results will come.

Yeah I must say the only bits of the game Ive seen were those little video clips that fella puts up, and Torres's goal was a peach. Thank God we've got him.

I'm still a bit surprised if I'm honest that people are posting up such things as "well at least Arsenal drew"

. I really don't think what Arsenal are up to is entirely relevant to us right now as we are twelve points behind them, and probably the Mancs as well when they beat Newcastle. Chelsea are disappearing over the horizon as well so people would definately be better off looking at thr results of our immediate rivals, namely Man City, Everton and Villa.

Equally, why is everone so obsessed with what the manager says in interviews? However we played, it is unrealistic to expect him to come out and say "we played sh!te", and I think the sometimes repetitive interviews can probably be put down to the fact that he is speaking a language which four years ago he had no command of. He deserves criticism for some things IMHO, but not about his interviews. TBPH I couldn't give a feck what he comes out with by and large as long as we progress. I was much more concerned by the alleged "playing with the hearts" comment than I ever am about us "controlling the game".

One point I would like to raise is more of a question really. What exactly does Peter Crouch have to do to get a game? He featured in an admittedly very poor performance against Luton and was no better than anybody else, but he did score a goal. He does do that from time to time, and given the fact that Torres also does that with striking regularity I'd be inclined to let them play together for a while. Revolutionary I know but I'm in one of those moods this morning.

by **roberto green** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:39 pm

mistyred wrote:I don't give to sh!tes about the champions league at this rate the Mancs will have 25 titles before we win it again
and that is just not good enough

Im starting to think will i ever see us win the league again in my lifetime and i'm 28.The other team (man u,chelsea, and arsenal are light years away in terms of money and the way their clubs are run....

Yes really depressing but honest. :down:

by **Graeme Noble** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:40 pm

Thinkpad wrote:Rafa: we controlled the game. We have many shots but we really need to put those shots into goal. We are unluckly not to win. We just need to continue doing what we have been doing and maybe the goals will come..

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:40 pm

The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How is it, that in Istanbul, against all the odds at half time, 45000 fans can still have believe in their side and sing their hearts out. Yet come on this forum on match day at the end of a fairly bad performance with a defeat or draw and all of a sudden the team is sh*t and the manager has to go. Fair enough, it's a string of poor performances, but as it happens often in life, people do go through bad times. What's important is that they get the support to get them through it. Where's the f*cking support now, eh?

Oh I was hoping you were going to tell me why Rafa is so great, you told me how he was great on one night nearly 3 years ago, and I agree that he was, that was an unbelievable night but owed far more to Stevie than to Rafa.
In any case you need to stop living in the past and focus on the trouble we are in now. Rafa is not motivating the team and he is picking the wrong players and formations, that is why me and a lot of other people want rid of him.

Please try and answer without swearing

Houllier got the sack even though he won the treble 3 years before that...(ie...for all those new LFC fans who just came aboard when rafa came here or after we won the champions league..we won the treble in 2001 and he was asked to go in 2004).

3 years....and that was from david moores. I don't think why rafa should be treated any better than houllier....

The way i see it either win the FA cup or the Champions league...or rafa has to go...as there is no marked improvement in our team.

You can't have it both ways. That's just glory hunting. Either Rafa goes regardless of what he wins, or not at all. IMO, he should be given the entire distance on his contract.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:41 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
DAV wrote:this is a forum for peoples views and opinions
Emerald Red get a life, i aint saying sack anyone - but its his view and he can have is say like the rest of us.

OK, so Rafa is an idiot. Sack him. Yeah. That'll work. If he wins the Champions League again, sure people will change their f*cking tune. Hypocrites.

When have I ever changed my opinion?? Why Don't you grow up and start treating people with some respect. How on earth can you still have faith in Rafa after today's game, the whole team lacks cohesion, playing ability, decent tactics and morale!!
Incidentally on today's form we are going to get fecking humiliated against Inter Milan, I'm dreading it at the moment, honestly.

You can f*ck off n' all.

Oh are we being mean and picking on you?
Why do you have this love in with Rafa, please explain it so that I might understand it.
Are you happy with todays game?
Are you happy that Voronin and Riise started?
In what other ways is Rafa so special?

Please if you have good enough arguments you might convince me because I, as opposed to you,actually have an open mind and don't need to resort to foul language when I disagree with someone.

I'll tell you what it is mate.

I don't think anyone would argue that today's performance was anything but shambolic.

However, it's when the same old posters come on after a poor display and start hurling abuse at Rafa that genuine supporters begin to get quite annoyed. Criticise his decisions by all means, but do not treat the guy as if he's Gary Neville, by calling him a 'f*cking idiot' and so on. THAT IS NOT THE LIVERPOOL WAY. If you think that is acceptable, I don't consider you a supporter.

Furthermore, we all accept that ultimately it's Rafa's responsibility to get the team performing to an acceptable standard. However, we should not go down the route of making players exempt from criticism after dour performances -after all it's the players who are charged with executing the game plan. They should be at the forefront of our questions today, because to be blunt I didn't see much belief from any of them - and that goes for every player. Where are their personal standards for a start? The concept of shared accountability seems to evade certain people, they go straight for Rafa. I question everybody, why? because they all represent Liverpool FC, and as a supporter I hold everybody accountable.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:43 pm

puroresu wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:
puroresu wrote:Rafa wants 11 robots who all do what he says. No imagination, no flair, no trying things out of the odinary. Just do what the Manager says and thats it. Its pathetic but will not change as its been that way for years. Creative freedom isnt allowed under Rafa!!

We didn't draw today because of an absence of flair. We drew today because our players lobbed the ball up in the air to no-one in particular. I don't believe for a second that Rafa's sending his team out to do that.

This is what happens when our passing game turns to sh*t. A player gives the ball away a couple of times at close range, and then the next time it's a hopeful punt forward. Maybe having Crouch on the pitch would make that less of a problem, but when Voronin's the man under it against two decent size defenders, we're going to keep going backwards.

Really. I've seen to much long ball football from Liverpool this season. Its happened so often I have to wonder whether they are doing this cos the manager says so. If not why doesnt he get them to stop.

I really don't believe that's the case. Hyypia's always loved a hopeful punt forward, and since he's been in the side the defence has been miles behind the strikers, with little ambition to go forward with the ball.

As I said earlier, fair play to Sami for coming in and showing us he can still defend, but anybody that thinks Agger will come back and just tw*t it forward at every opportunity is just wrong. He's been absent for most of the season, and I think we'll start getting back on track as he returns to match fitness.

by **Thinkpad** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:45 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:
puroresu wrote:Rafa wants 11 robots who all do what he says. No imagination, no flair, no trying things out of the odinary. Just do what the Manager says and thats it. Its pathetic but will not change as its been that way for years. Creative freedom isnt allowed under Rafa!!

We didn't draw today because of an absence of flair. We drew today because our players lobbed the ball up in the air to no-one in particular. I don't believe for a second that Rafa's sending his team out to do that.

This is what happens when our passing game turns to sh*t. A player gives the ball away a couple of times at close range, and then the next time it's a hopeful punt forward. Maybe having Crouch on the pitch would make that less of a problem, but when Voronin's the man under it against two decent size defenders, we're going to keep going backwards.

Flair includes the ability to dribble (especially with running), pass (those one two flick) and trapping a hard pass. Also include the ability to trick defenders into making mistakes and able to change directions on the spot.. In my book flair is basically great skills...

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:45 pm

heimdall wrote:Please try and answer without swearing

You called Rafa a 'f*cking idiot', moreover, you've agreed with another poster in this thread who called Rafa a '*****, ***** manager'.

I think that comment is a tad hypocritical.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:48 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How is it, that in Istanbul, against all the odds at half time, 45000 fans can still have believe in their side and sing their hearts out. Yet come on this forum on match day at the end of a fairly bad performance with a defeat or draw and all of a sudden the team is sh*t and the manager has to go. Fair enough, it's a string of poor performances, but as it happens often in life, people do go through bad times. What's important is that they get the support to get them through it. Where's the f*cking support now, eh?

Oh I was hoping you were going to tell me why Rafa is so great, you told me how he was great on one night nearly 3 years ago, and I agree that he was, that was an unbelievable night but owed far more to Stevie than to Rafa.
In any case you need to stop living in the past and focus on the trouble we are in now. Rafa is not motivating the team and he is picking the wrong players and formations, that is why me and a lot of other people want rid of him.

Please try and answer without swearing

Houllier got the sack even though he won the treble 3 years before that...(ie...for all those new LFC fans who just came aboard when rafa came here or after we won the champions league..we won the treble in 2001 and he was asked to go in 2004).

3 years....and that was from david moores. I don't think why rafa should be treated any better than houllier....

The way i see it either win the FA cup or the Champions league...or rafa has to go...as there is no marked improvement in our team.

You can't have it both ways. That's just glory hunting. Either Rafa goes regardless of what he wins, or not at all. IMO, he should be given the entire distance on his contract.

Dude...you really think rafa is making our team better ? All i can see is that he can't motivate players when they are down. He can be the best coach in the world (but at the moment...his coaching is way off too)...but if he can't motivate players, he won't be a success.

I know how we won the champions league and all...but to constantly use that as an excuse and then conveniently forget about how many times the players play as if they don't give a sh1t....now that is unforgivable.

by **mart** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:48 pm

The problem is that our midfield is completely immobile when we got the ball. There is no movement, noone looking for the ball. So our defenders that are not so technically gifted will resort to hoofing the ball up top.

Imo this is one of the reasons why Kuyt is played so much and is so involved in our play. For all his faults he does make those runs without the ball and tries to make himself available. So when the rest of the team looks uninterested he gets the ball, even if he isnt exactly the most brilliant player with the ball in his feet. Kewell in many ways does much the same. He makes himself available by staying wide up top, and often gets the ball. If he can get something out of it is another matter.

When we defend our players work hard to win it back, but when we got the ball they stop running. And then we end up relying on a individual sign of brilliance from torres.

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