Liverpool FC Forum

Sabre wrote:I wouldn't expect to sign anything before the medical tests. If the Americans were appearing to sign some formality now, or Rick Parry for that matter, the journos would stress that Rafa has no authority to finnish deals.

Sabre wrote:

redtrader74 wrote:

stmichael wrote:

Dundalk wrote:4. Make tactical changes. Whether it’s key matches against the likes of Arsenal and Man United or against lesser opposition such as Wigan, Derby or Reading, Rafa Benitez’s squad has been outplayed and/or outwitted on too many occasions recently. Mourinho will bring a new lease of life to the Liverpool squad with fresh tactical ideas.

 

what, like playing centre back's upfront? i don't get this "mourinho is a tactical genius" nonsense. he's been well and truly found out in three semi finals against us for a start.

anyway, the guy's nailed on for barcelona next season imo. can't see rijkaard lasting beyond the summer.

  Yeah plan B for Maureen was Robert Huth up front with Charlie Hughes long ball punts. Oh and his substituting can hardly be called inspired, ffs he had £20m players sitting on the bench.

I'll let him have the motivator tag, he seemed to have that ability in bundles, but whether his brand would work long term or wear thin over time has yet to be seen.

Pah, you're too generous conceding him the motivator tag

He's a whip motivator. If I point to you with a gun, you'll be very motivated to obbey my commands.

Mourinho has slagged off players in after match press. In my book, you don't slag off the players, because those are the ones that are going to give you glory. Mourinho motivated with the whip, but in the long term that leads to a unsettled dressroom and he's had some in that dressroom.

s@int wrote:

Sabre wrote:I wouldn't expect to sign anything before the medical tests. If the Americans were appearing to sign some formality now, or Rick Parry for that matter, the journos would stress that Rafa has no authority to finnish deals. If they don't appear and the normal procedures are done then their absence is mentioned. As long as the deals are finnished in time and we don't lose chances, I don't need them appearing in the photo.

Well, in Madrid they are writting pro Rafa articles

BENITEZ IS THE BEST LIVERPOOL COACH IN THEIR PREMIERSHIP HISTORY

His numbers are the best




JAVIER G. MATALLANAS / Madrid

Rafa is questioned in England once again. The London press, unlike the Liverpool one who's supporting the Spaniard totally, insist that Rafa's days can be counted in Liverpool. The Campaign against Benitez cannot be considered but surprising, when you look at the numbers of the Madrid coach since he's at Liverpool,
 
Benitez is the better coach in the Liverpool's premier league era, and has the better stats since Graeme Souness times in 92/93

If the European numbers through out their history are reviewed, Benitez yet again is in a good position and has the best third stats, even improving the ones of the legendary Shankly, as can be seen in the below table.




From London it's said that Benitez's team doesn't play brilliantly, but those numbers are not ignored by the Liverpool supporters who totally back the manager.



Técnicos del Liverpool en EuropaEntrenadores                           


                                          G   W   D  L    GF  GA   %

Fagan                                   19 13  3  3  34 10 68,42-
Paisley                                 61 39 11 11 140 49 63,93-
Benítez                                 53 31 10 12  88 35 58,49-
Shankly                                 65 34 13 18 114 54 52,31-
Souness                                 12  6  0  6  26 16 50,00

Técnicos del Liverpool en la Premier                             

                                             G   W   D  L    GF  GA   %
Benítez                                 134  72 30 32 200 106 58,73-
Houllier                                216 108 54 54 354 212 50,00-
Evans                                   172  83 46 43 280 173 48,26


----------------

Well it's a simple article, and not a deep one, but still you have to ask whether a coach that's been brilliant in Europe and not the worst whatsoever as of late deserves to be sácked. IMHO Rafa deserves to be told "come on, improve the team", but not to be sácked in summer.

Some might mention that conveniently the article makes the comparison of the league numbers in the premiership. Yes they do, but it's equally truth that the ignoring of the European merits by the London press is equally biased, this time against the Spaniard. This Spanish articles focuses on the positive, the London press on the negative. But it's equally biased.

I bring this article because despite being a cráp one, it's much better than the quotes of the rág they've been translating as of late.

Its also TOTALLY WRONG as well Sabre as when Shankly managed it was the European cup and you played THE BEST team i.e. THE CHAMPIONS from each country, not the top four teams. I am pretty sure if he had been up against 4th best teams it would have improved his win average, plus it was a straight knockout, you didn't get the chance to run up wins against a couple of crappy teams before the competition really started.

redtrader74 wrote:Saint would some of those games have been in the UEFA cup?

s@int wrote:

Sabre wrote:S@int

Its also TOTALLY WRONG as well Sabre as when Shankly managed it was the European cup and you played THE BEST team i.e. THE CHAMPIONS from each country, not the top four teams. I am pretty sure if he had been up against 4th best teams it would have improved his win average, plus it was a straight knockout, you didn't get the chance to run up wins against a couple of crappy teams before the competition really started.

I don't understand well your point of Shankly only playing against the champions. At the end of the day, under the new system, if you reach the final, and Rafa has done that twice, you beat the champions, the current champions, the third team of a country, you beat them all. That is to say, you beat both the champions and other teams. Also, in a tournament that has a mini league, it's likely you don't play with the same motivation as in a semifinal and you even can lose the last game. That also affects the stats.

Quite simply, defending that Rafa has not been brilliant in Europe is undefendable even for the greatest of the devil's lawyer.

My point is its easier to beat say the 3rd BEST team from a country than the best team from a country.So Benitez can rack up wins against 3rd or 4th best teams rather than having to play only the top teams.

SHANKLY HAD TO PLAY THE BEST TEAM FROM EACH COUNTRY.

No one is saying that Rafa hasn't done well in europe, all I am saying is that if Liverpool played the top of the league every week we wouldn't win as many games as if we played one of the four best sides in the league every week.

Same applies in europe. If you only play the BEST, its not the same as playing any one of the best four.

Also in a mini league its likely that other teams don't play with the same motivation as in a semi final and they might easily lose a game.  Works both ways mate

The other point is of course that Rafa wouldn't even have qualified to play one game in the European cup.

Understand were you coming from with this Saint but have you taken into account that the 2nd and 3rd best teams from Spain, Italy Germany, etc etc are much better than the Champions of Denmark , Sweden, Belguim, Bulgaria ,Cyprus etc etc etc. 

s@int wrote:

redtrader74 wrote:Saint would some of those games have been in the UEFA cup?

No idea mate,  they arn't my stats. To qualify for the UEFA CUP (FAIRS CUP )YOU HAD TO COME SECOND, so my argument still stands up mate.

redtrader74 wrote:

s@int wrote:

redtrader74 wrote:Saint would some of those games have been in the UEFA cup?

No idea mate,  they arn't my stats. To qualify for the UEFA CUP (FAIRS CUP )YOU HAD TO COME SECOND, so my argument still stands up mate.

Honestly i believe comparisons are pointless, especially over the long term. The competitions have all changed, as have the rules, now we can afford to rest players when you are winning the group, then you couldn't as it was always a knockout, i don't know if they have pre-qualifiers then, to clear out the dross, eg TNS solutions, although that match i suppose would go as a win for Rafa. You have to play more matches now i think, to win CL, IMO the teams are more closely matched, thrashings are rarer, apart from us and Besiktas, Manu and Roma, i don't recall too many.

There are far too many variables that have changed over the years. I'd say the important facts are trophies, shanks won them, and so far Rafa has aswell, and we should recognise them individually.

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

s@int wrote:

Sabre wrote:I wouldn't expect to sign anything before the medical tests. If the Americans were appearing to sign some formality now, or Rick Parry for that matter, the journos would stress that Rafa has no authority to finnish deals. If they don't appear and the normal procedures are done then their absence is mentioned. As long as the deals are finnished in time and we don't lose chances, I don't need them appearing in the photo.

Well, in Madrid they are writting pro Rafa articles

BENITEZ IS THE BEST LIVERPOOL COACH IN THEIR PREMIERSHIP HISTORY

His numbers are the best




JAVIER G. MATALLANAS / Madrid

Rafa is questioned in England once again. The London press, unlike the Liverpool one who's supporting the Spaniard totally, insist that Rafa's days can be counted in Liverpool. The Campaign against Benitez cannot be considered but surprising, when you look at the numbers of the Madrid coach since he's at Liverpool,
 
Benitez is the better coach in the Liverpool's premier league era, and has the better stats since Graeme Souness times in 92/93

If the European numbers through out their history are reviewed, Benitez yet again is in a good position and has the best third stats, even improving the ones of the legendary Shankly, as can be seen in the below table.




From London it's said that Benitez's team doesn't play brilliantly, but those numbers are not ignored by the Liverpool supporters who totally back the manager.



Técnicos del Liverpool en EuropaEntrenadores                           


                                          G   W   D  L    GF  GA   %

Fagan                                   19 13  3  3  34 10 68,42-
Paisley                                 61 39 11 11 140 49 63,93-
Benítez                                 53 31 10 12  88 35 58,49-
Shankly                                 65 34 13 18 114 54 52,31-
Souness                                 12  6  0  6  26 16 50,00

Técnicos del Liverpool en la Premier                             

                                             G   W   D  L    GF  GA   %
Benítez                                 134  72 30 32 200 106 58,73-
Houllier                                216 108 54 54 354 212 50,00-
Evans                                   172  83 46 43 280 173 48,26


----------------

Well it's a simple article, and not a deep one, but still you have to ask whether a coach that's been brilliant in Europe and not the worst whatsoever as of late deserves to be sácked. IMHO Rafa deserves to be told "come on, improve the team", but not to be sácked in summer.

Some might mention that conveniently the article makes the comparison of the league numbers in the premiership. Yes they do, but it's equally truth that the ignoring of the European merits by the London press is equally biased, this time against the Spaniard. This Spanish articles focuses on the positive, the London press on the negative. But it's equally biased.

I bring this article because despite being a cráp one, it's much better than the quotes of the rág they've been translating as of late.

Its also TOTALLY WRONG as well Sabre as when Shankly managed it was the European cup and you played THE BEST team i.e. THE CHAMPIONS from each country, not the top four teams. I am pretty sure if he had been up against 4th best teams it would have improved his win average, plus it was a straight knockout, you didn't get the chance to run up wins against a couple of crappy teams before the competition really started.

Come on Saint - over half of the teams competing in Europe were a bag of sh*t back then.

The standard has improved 100-fold since the '60's.

I'm not arguing that mate. Money has made a tremendous difference, but also to us. So you could say thats another advantage that the big clubs now have, more than then.

What I am saying is if Shankly had been playing top 4 teams rather than "The best team" his win average would have been better.

And as I say Rafa wouldn't have qualified to play one game under the old rules.

I am however slightly concerned that someone has hijacked Lando's account.

I question Rafa's position over Shanks and only get a "Come on Saint" ?

"Love to your fellow man" and all that jazz...