Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:33 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:The problem with Liverpool is Steven Gerrard
http://www.sportingo.com/footbal....01,6384

Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal have all solved the issue of too much reliance on one man – Rafa Benitez must now do the same.

“What wrong with Liverpool?” lamented a Liverpool fan after his club drew with Wigan, making four points dropped in the last two games. “What’s wrong with Steven Gerrard?”

“That,” I told him, “was exactly the problem.”

Liverpool are too reliant on one man – Gerrard. They need him to provide the leadership as well as the impetus to their entire endeavour. To be fair to Stevie G, in the big games he has never failed them, and his most glorious statement to that effect was in Istanbul when he single-handedly hauled Liverpool by their bootstraps from the brink of defeat to be European Champions. If ever a football achievement deserved the award of the Victoria Cross, that was it.

Gerrard is to Liverpool what the Katana Sword is to a Japanese Samurai. Without him, Liverpool have no soul. But such reliance has also at times proved Liverpool’s undoing over a season-long campaign. Gerrard is fantastic when it comes to the crunch, but can look ordinary during routine games. His influence is so great that Liverpool tend to falter when he has an off-game.

Without him on the field, the current expensively assembled Liverpool squad lack a leader. Who else is there? Jamie Carragher? No. Sami Hyypia? No. Xabi Alonso? No. Fernando Torres? No. They are all are good players in their own right, but not one of them is capable of leading and inspiring great performances from those around them.

In the past, I have suggested Gerrard be relieved of his captain’s armband and been met with a barrage of criticism. The fact is I am not condemning Anfield's very own Superman. Rather, I see a need to make others in the Liverpool ranks step up. An over-reliance on one man is just not good for the team. Arsene Wenger found that out. Sir Alex Ferguson found that out. And even Jose Mourinho found that out last season. All did something about it, making others around their captain more accountable.

Not Rafa Benitez. What’s worse, Benitez has done nothing to identify and cultivate the next generation of leaders at Liverpool. Whereas other managers – Wenger for one – have passed the captain’s armband around to great success, Benitez seems reluctant to disturb the hierarchy at his club, which would be fine except instead of treating Gerrard with reverence, the manager treats him like a water-boy. He continually plays him in awkward positions, like midfield-anchor, wide-right, in the hole etc. so he can accommodate other – perhaps lesser – players. To my mind, that’s just so disrespectful of his prized asset.

I still hold the view that in order to progress, Liverpool need to take away the captain’s armband from Gerrard. Give it Jose Reina. Force the goalkeeper to take responsibility for his team and maybe that will stop him making the occasional rash and silly judgments. Allow Gerrard freedom from responsibility to express himself in midfield in the way Wenger has allowed Aleksandr Hleb to flourish.

Maybe then we’ll see a better Liverpool who are not constantly looking to Gerrard for redemption, and where the likes of Torres can step up. In fairness, the Spaniard is already proving his mettle, but Liverpool cannot progress from a one-man team to a two-man team. That’s a miniscule step for a club with Liverpool’s pride and tradition. They need to be an 11-man team and, in this respect, Rafa needs this transfer window period to re-evaluate his players. John Arne Riise, Harry Kewell, Jermaine Pennant, Dirk Kuyt, Peter Crouch, Momo Sissoko, Daniel Agger and Andriy Voronin haven't added value to the team and all need to go.

The next generation of the Rafa-lution needs to be brought in. Among them, someone who can challenge Stevie G for the captain’s armband and for the soul of the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Harsh but parts of it are true , we depend on him too much , and No i don't agree that we should sell agger , pennant , riise and maybe either kuyt or crouch , unless we can get some1 better

Edit

See you ripped that to shreds. :laugh:

by **stmichael** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:39 pm

I've said it before and i'll say it again, gerrard is a problem in that he's so bloody versatile and doesn't really have a defined position. He's not a Benitez style player as a central midfielder in a 4-4-2, he's not a specialist wide player and he's certainly no holding player and or second striker. Infact in many ways you could describe him as a luxury player who we simply have to fit into our side in some capacity because he's quite frankly that good.

However to blame our current problem on Gerrard is nonsense. He's already scored 12 goals this season, and this was despite having indifferent start to the season when he was playing with an injury.

by **burjennio** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:40 pm

you have to wonder how people get things like this printed in papers or websites when it is obvious to anyone with a brain or that has ever watched a Liverpool game what a steaming pile of poo this guy has written

Most of this nonsense has been sufficiently shot down enough already butpleasetell me that if changing the captian was so effective wouldnt coached be doing it every week to motivate players they thought needed it? All it is is a bloody armband ffs - it doesnt give superhuman powers or automatically command respect, would anyone think differently of Titus Bramble or Jean Allan Boumsong if they wore an armband?

by **kazza** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:37 am

The way i understood it was not so much blaming Gerrard but rather other players that do not carry more of the burdon that Gerrard shoulders.

by **Ciggy** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:59 am

I want Gerrard to stay with us for the rest of his career he is a wonderful player, yes others should step up and take responsibilty at times.
Maybe some of our players are a bit overawed by him.

Arsenal would not be top of the league if Henry was still there this season, even the Arsenal players have said they are a bit relieved since he has gone.

Becuase now they are playing for themselves and not to please him.

by **hello_red** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:26 am

Need bertter attacking options. Our defense is fine and dandy, for the time being anyway. Sign Mascha and a couple genuine attacking players and offload a couple ie Sissoko (dosnt want to be here) and Voronin ( :help

).

Any team with genuine aspirations of winning the league will have a one or two match winners in there squad but the rest of team? Well they are there to feed the ball to the match winners and chip etc etc. We dont have that quality yet still, bar Kewel and on occasion Yossi, were is that coming from?

I like babel and Lucas but they are future players much like Agger, they are future 1st team regulars.

by **Owzat** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:01 pm

Dundalk wrote:Do United really to heavily on Ronaldo and Rooney?
Arsenal on Fabregas and Adeybayor?
Chelsea on Lampard and Drogba?

I know you didnt write the article but are you saying we should sell Gerrard for the good of the team?

Arsenal had a slump in form, some say it was (partly) down to the absence of Fabregas and Hleb, Man Utd never look as potent without Rooney and Ronaldo and I'd probably say Drogba and Terry are arguably the two Chelsea cornerstones that make them tick.

I think it underrates Carra and Torres to suggest Liverpool are a one man team, both play a big part in results even if performances where Gerrard plays centre stage make more headlines and some in the media simply watch to see if Gerrard (and Torres) "go missing".

What p1 sses me off most is something that came across in painfully real terms when I was posting it. Asked who "your club's best three players are" I was responding to someone slating our best three players cited as Carra, Gerrard and Torres. I realised then that two of our three best players (arguably) have been at the club since they were kids and that is somewhat surprising for a club that has spent plenty of millions on players. It perhaps reflects our stupid transfer policy/approach of buying half a dozen players for £5m-£10m rather than spend £15m+ on a few better quality players. A club that is struggling or wants to break into the top half of the Premiership might buy ten Premiership quality players at a few million each, clubs that want the Premiership tend to bring in the top quality.

Instead of spending £5m on Benayoun, £11.5m on Babel, £10m on Kuyt, £7m on Crouch, £5.8m on Sissoko, just think what we could have bought with that money. We might not have got as many players but £39.3m should get you a couple of top players - after all the record transfer fee is only £30m in this country and players like Drogba didn't cost as much. I think recent matches have proven that quantity doesn't compensate quality, our combined strikeforce of £17m against Luton required a mistake and freebie Voronin to set up a relative tap in for Crouch.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:11 pm

Instead of spending £5m on Benayoun, £11.5m on Babel, £10m on Kuyt, £7m on Crouch, £5.8m on Sissoko, just think what we could have bought with that money

The fact that they were bought over the course of 2.5 years might explain why we didn't go out and spend 20m on one player. Even Drogba IIRC was in the region of 24m, remembering that our biggest transfer before Torres was about 11m on Diouf.

by **Owzat** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:09 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Instead of spending £5m on Benayoun, £11.5m on Babel, £10m on Kuyt, £7m on Crouch, £5.8m on Sissoko, just think what we could have bought with that money

The fact that they were bought over the course of 2.5 years might explain why we didn't go out and spend 20m on one player. Even Drogba IIRC was in the region of 24m, remembering that our biggest transfer before Torres was about 11m on Diouf.

Well yes, I wasn't suggesting they were signed in one season.

2004/5 £24.8m (Josemi, Garcia, Morientes, Alonso)

2005/6 £24.4m (Agger, Sissoko, Crouch, Reina)

2006/7 £27.3m (Pennant, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Bellamy, Paletta)

2007/8 £37.5m (Benayoun, Torres & Babel)

Sorry that's a bit patched together, the source I'm using is rather rubbish for seasons. It has Bellamy signed on 22/06/06 as signed in the 2005/6 season! Given more time I'd sit and do that extensively with all transfers, however it gives the gist that we buy about four players a season for a spend of £24m and instead of say Crouch and Sissoko we could have got a top CB. It also suggests that we've only got about £10m more than previous seasons, the emphasis seems more on quantity until Torres although Agger, Reina and Alonso stand out as good buys. But in most summers you could take half and leave half, instead of signing up Bellamy, Pennant, Kuyt and Paletta maybe we should have signed that top winger we all craved and still do.

by **taff** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:56 pm

Having one of the best players in the world is a real problem

by **Bermenstein** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:08 pm

Yes Gerrard is the problem.

He score's too many goals instead of letting the other players in on the act....He always wants the ball from deep, so he can dictate the play and boss everyone around like a tyrant....He wants to play in every game and in lots of different positions and doesn't care if Momo, Lucas and Alonso don't get a look in.......He tries to do everything himself......Who does he think he is?

Get rid of him NOW

God damit....

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:04 am

Bermenstein wrote:Yes Gerrard is the problem.

He score's too many goals instead of letting the other players in on the act....He always wants the ball from deep, so he can dictate the play and boss everyone around like a tyrant....He wants to play in every game and in lots of different positions and doesn't care if Momo, Lucas and Alonso don't get a look in.......He tries to do everything himself......Who does he think he is?

Get rid of him NOW God damit....

Are you on a wind up

by **ivor_the_injun** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:12 am

The article this came from is generally terrible, but the actual premise is something I kind of agree with. I think Rafa does often struggle to get the best out of Gerrard, while at the same time getting the best out of those around him. Over a season, this struggle to get the balance right definitely costs us.

I still can't make my mind up about what our best midfield looks like. It's a good problem to have, no question, but it's frustrating to me to think that our midfield seemed to get messed around with far less, and then seemed so much more consistent, when our squad was so thin and injury-ravaged that Gerrard simply HAD to play on the right. You can't argue with the kind of goal return he got that season, but he never seemed particularly happy out there, despite telling the press that he was all about doing a job for the team.

Fast forward to now, and we've got a wealth of options in midfield, but for me we're not getting consistently good performances across the pitch. In many ways, I think the problem is that the wings still aren't sorted. Nobody's made the right wing theirs, while on the left Babel's been dreadful as a winger, and Kewell isn't seen as a player that can get through 90 minutes of football anymore.

So to the centre. At times Gerrard's been great, but when he hasn't been near his best, he's been an empty shirt. That's a huge problem when a manager builds a team around a player. Mascherano on the other hand has been absolutely outstanding, and for me is up there with Torres in terms of our best performers this season, but even when he's been way below his best he's still made key interventions. Gerrard has been ever-present in the league when available (17 appearances), while Mascherano has been viewed as more interchangeable with the likes of Alonso and Sissoko (13 appearances). I think that's the problem. Yes, they play completely different positions, but if we all agree that Carra, Torres and Gerrard must play when they're fit, then on this season's showing you have to put Mascherano in there too. I love Alonso to bits, but there's no question for me that Mascherano has played his way into a starting spot every week. Although Alonso is fit again, he has to wait his turn for me.

But of course Rafa doesn't work like that. We know this, and the players know this. In terms of getting the spine of the team sorted though, I think it's here that he gets us into trouble. Gerrard seems to be first pick, but all too often he's been too deep this season, and it's no coincidence that we struggle to score when that's the case. If he's going to be an ever-present, you have to give him freedom to roam, as he's a fraction of his best when asked to patrol a particular area of the pitch. In some ways this is where a midfield 5 sounds more viable, offering us security in front of defence while giving Gerrard license to wander, but at present our wingers are too gunshy, or simply not mobile enough, to make this work, leaving the 1 up front too isolated.

So back to the problem based on who we have at our disposal. And I don't have an answer. And in all honesty I don't think Rafa has a definitive answer either. We have some of the best midfielders in the world, but we're kidding ourselves if we say we have the best midfield. Giving Gerrard a regular partner and sticking with him would certainly be a big help from where I'm sitting though - both for Gerrard and the guy alongside him.

by **mart** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:57 pm

While the article mainly is a joke you can see Gerrard as a problem in some ways, similar to what Henry was for Arsenal last year.

First of all Gerrard has become bigger than the team/club in many ways. In fanforums/media etc one often talks about whats best for Gerrard, not whats best for the team. Sometimes you wonder if some people think he is the entire team alone.

Gerrard also tends to want to do it all himself. For instance when he was supposed to be support for Torres he was playing defender, then he wanted the ball so he could be a deep playmaker, then he runs forward and wants to be the striker as well. He gets applauded for this, but if for instance Kuyt is down in midfield he gets 10 pages of abuse on this forum. You cant help but wonder how this affects the other players on the pitch. This is very similar to the situation with Henry in Arsenal last year.

Maybe we would play better if Gerrard could leave the defending to our defenders (one of the best in the league), and let alonso be the deep playmaker (the best in the league?) and concentrate on staying up top with Torres like he was supposed to in that match. Gerrard has a free role, but that does not mean he is supposed to do everything.

If we do another comparison to Henry in Arsenal you can look at the number of goals from the other midfield players. In Arsenal Henry was the proven goalscorer and there is no doubting he is a great player. But the team also played around him and provided the opportunities for him to score. They were always looking to give the ball to him so he could shoot. Now that he is gone, pretty much all of the midfield players in Arsenal is scoring more. There is not necessarily one standout top scorer but the goals comes from many players. And its team goals that count, not having one top scorer.

by **Elchris** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:47 am

The person who wrote this article is the problem

Liverpool FC Forum

Is Gerrard the problem? - Partially correct

Who is online