Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:18 pm

It's a good time to look at this one again. Me and my mate were looking at the team as a whole yesterday and came to the conclusion that we're pretty slow all over the pitch. Take Torres, Babel and (to a lesser extent) Gerrard out of the side and we are seriously lacking. I guess Voronin has a bit of pace but the rest are fall into average to predestrian categories. We're not a patch on Arsenal who have got more wheels than Michelin. You look at Eboue, Toure, Gallas, Sagna, Clichy, Hleb, Adebayor, Walcott and Toure. They're all burners but they ALL can play.

by **burjennio** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:59 pm

Scottbot Posted on Jan. 07 2008,11:18
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It's a good time to look at this one again. Me and my mate were looking at the team as a whole yesterday and came to the conclusion that we're pretty slow all over the pitch. Take Torres, Babel and (to a lesser extent) Gerrard out of the side and we are seriously lacking. I guess Voronin has a bit of pace but the rest are fall into average to predestrian categories. We're not a patch on Arsenal who have got more wheels than Michelin. You look at Eboue, Toure, Gallas, Sagna, Clichy, Hleb, Adebayor, Walcott and Toure. They're all burners but they ALL can play.

Pace is the one quality Wenger looks to before any other, you have to be quick to fit in with his style of play, the other players that could get away with it would be the CHs but Gallas and Toure are lightning too! - and Gerrard is very quick, every bit as fast as the other 2 mentioned, in the games against Wigan when he hit the free kick that Kirkland parried he made up 15yards on Alonso to get to the rebound - that is lightning, although Xabi's not really know for his blistering pace

Sadly we are short of proper pacey players, especially up front and from the fullbacks, Steve Finnan has definately lost a yard and Riise was never blessed with such an attribute. Aurelio has had too many injuries recently to really see if he's quick when fully fit. As for Harry Kewell, well If Fulham really did offer £1.5m Id bite there hand off because the guys done, he doesnt run at anyone, and constantly turns inside to try and play the easy ball, his days of terrorising defenders are long gone

Kuyt and Voronin arn't quick, in fact Kuyt is pedestrian at times - repalcing Cisse with him was like taking a quick player with no touch and replacing him with a slow player with no touch. Voronin cant even finish now, cant believe he didnt score against Luton, thank Christ Crouchy was there to tap in the rebound

by **spion** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:28 pm

To attack with pace you need passes to be spot on & at the moment we seem a little short on decent passers. Stevie appart we dont seem to be able to put two together & this coupled with the lack of leaders means we cannot or dont want to play in that manner. Also you need the movement off the ball to strech the oppositions formation there by creating the space needed to pass & move. We have neither at the moment & you can only blame the coaching. Someone like Babel looks the sort of player who would be suited to this style of play & you can understand why Arsenal were linked before we bought him. Its a sad state when you can see there is an obvious gem in Babel but we dont seem to know what to do with him.
Asking to change a style of play is akin to asking for a change in manager because in Benitez we have a coach who would rather grind out a result than smash a team. We can do it & have seen in glimpses a team who wants to be let off its leash but they seem too preoccupied with keeping the manager happy.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:53 pm

I don't necessarily think pace is especially important, particularly in Benitez's system. It helps, particularly up front, so we have the ability to stretch defences.

As far as I'm concerned, tempo is more important, as that exploits teams rather than space. Hence the reason we lose half our game when Alonso isn't in the side.

by **red_indian** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:45 pm

i do agree that tempo is also very important, but i guess i am thinking about pressuring teams hihger up the pitch and having the confidence to do this. If we can retain possession high up the pitch and limit the defending team to punts up field to clear their lines then there is more of a chance we can get the ball back and press forward again. I guess right now i feel sometimes we do not play high enough as we are worried about pace behind our defenders, getting them turned ands running towards our goal - that prevents us from being able to create sustained periods of pressure which could ultimately lead to more chances and mean with players higher up the pitch we would have more heads in the box when the ball comes in from the flanks.

You may be right St Mike that Rafa's style is different to this, but i wonder whether with the right players at his disposal whether he would be averse to changing things round? There tends to be too big a gap between our wingers and full backs and if not them then between Gerard and the holding midfielder - the two sets should interchange better, if full back(s) are supporting the wingers then the holding midfielder should be back and vice versa, i just don't think we do either right now

by **Scottbot** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:58 pm

stmichael wrote:I don't necessarily think pace is especially important, particularly in Benitez's system. It helps, particularly up front, so we have the ability to stretch defences.

It's not the 'be all and end all' but it's still important. A team packed full of pace and quickness has several advantages. You've already touched on the front two and the ability to stretch defences and effect defensive positioning. Also (as mentioned already) a quick back-line enables you to play a higher line and compress play when the opposition has the ball and clearly if you want to play a pressing game it is to your advantage if your players are able to press that much more quickly. There's no doubt we are a slow side.

by **metalhead** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:00 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stmichael wrote:I don't necessarily think pace is especially important, particularly in Benitez's system. It helps, particularly up front, so we have the ability to stretch defences.

It's not the 'be all and end all' but it's still important. A team packed full of pace and quickness has several advantages. You've already touched on the front two and the ability to stretch defences and effect defensive positioning. Also (as mentioned already) a quick back-line enables you to play a higher line and compress play when the opposition has the ball and clearly if you want to play a pressing game it is to your advantage if your players are able to press that much more quickly. There's no doubt we are a slow side.

Thats true scott

You just look at Arsenal when their back four push up and how fast they come back to defend.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:12 am

stmichael wrote:I don't necessarily think pace is especially important, particularly in Benitez's system. It helps, particularly up front, so we have the ability to stretch defences.

As far as I'm concerned, tempo is more important, as that exploits teams rather than space. Hence the reason we lose half our game when Alonso isn't in the side.

Depending on how you attack of course, I agree with St Mike here. For me it's the pace the ball moves at, not the pace that people run at most of the time. Obviously we all love to see Torres burn somebody off with a gear change, or Gerrard, but in most cases its moving the ball quicker which opens teams up. Obviously to do that requires good movement (so the bloke who's recieving the pass has some options as to who to give it to next) and skill on the ball to pass it accurately.

Teams which are really playing well do it naturally, trusting themselves and having the confidence to ping it first time, taking a guess as to where they'll need to be when the next bloke gets it and moving into space BEFORE he recieves it and not after. Teams not quite in synch (like us at the mo) need to control it first before passing it and don't quite anticipate when the previous bloke is going to get it, so don't quite move into a space early enough so therefore don't get the ball on time etc. I always refer to this tempo thing within a team as rhythm. On the continent, they've usually got some fat bloke with a bass drum who goes bombombom, pause, bombombom while a team team passes it about. Good teams play with rhythm.

Stick Kuyt up top for Arsenal, or Sissoko in the centre and it would completely disrupt their rhythm. Gerrard would adapt to it, as would Alonso or Masherano or Torres. Stick any two of them in the midst of it though, and you'd effect the flow of the team adversely until they adapted (they could also adapt to an extent in training though as the rhythm is so well established). Unfortunately though with us, we flit in and out of rhythm from match to match, and sometimes from periopd to period within a game. We can't seem to get over this tendency to play really well and then be completely derailed by one dodgy performance. A blip becomes a bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip and I must confess, although I'm sure rotation is a major issue I'm not entirely convinced it's the entire explanation. It really is quite mystifying, and (I'm sure this'll be the only time I'll ever quote him) to quote Iain Dowie, we lack "bouncebackability" quite dramatically.

by **holylamb2006** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:33 am

Pace is the thing we a lacking and the players who keep up with a fast game .....

Our back line is really slow but carragher has decent enough speed and quality ....
This shows for Sami as his pace has lacked this season .....
we have a kind of old bacl line .... i think we need to re-vamp the back line this summer ..

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Pace and our ability to exploit it

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