Liverpool FC Forum

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:49 am

heimdall wrote:Are you suggesting our injuries have been worse than anybody else? That just isn't true, especially if you compare with Chelsea.

Bollox! I recall the whole backbone of our team once being striped down to nothing more than fringe players at one stage. Alosno, Agger, Hyypia, Gerrard, Torres were all out injured at one point. Key and vital players, especially Xabi Alosno. You take those players out of any team and you're struggling to replace no matter who you have in the squad. This is the conundrum that Rafa has had to face to date this season, and those are the key players, never mind the squad players like Pennant, Kewell, Aurelio and Finnan. No club in the Premiership has been blighted by such an injury list. Get your facts straight before you post.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:You come on here after a draw like a gangly-toothed inbred farmer and act like Rafa stole your kids and raped your cattle. You call him a "f*cking idiot",

by **Torres 2007** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:57 pm

bigmick wrote:If we assume that the League is as of now probably a bit beyond us, (infact even if we don't the questions are still valid) where do we go from here?

Do we rotate in the League to protect players for the Champions League like we appeared to last season?

Do we do the same for the FA Cup or is it not as major a consideration?

Do we start to have a look at a couple of players with regards more first team action? Is it time to give Babel a sustained run, or Lucas perhaps?

Do we just need a couple more class players to add to the ones we've already got, or are some of our "class" players not quite as top drawer as we've thought all along? If we do buy, do we need more "options", "possibilities" and the like, or do we look to build a "first team" by possibly buying less players numerically but more in terms of quality, is it time to revisit the concept of a preferred first eleven?

Does the squad need sprucing up a bit or a radical overhaul?

If our finances are as stretched as we are led to believe, can we seriously justify spending 17 million pounds on Masherano, while keeping Alonso, Gerrard and Lucas (even assuming we sell Sissoko)? This is given the fact that we don't possess one absolutely top class wide-midfielder with the exception of Gerrard who we don't play there, we only have one top-class striker and are short of centre-half over.

Rotation. Is it too early to say whther it has worked for us this season in the League? Has it had a positive effect, a negative effect or has it made no difference. Had we have played our best team and best players more often would we be further up the table in terms of points or not, or is the whole thing just a red herring?

The manager. If we don't get close to launching a challenge, do we give him some more cash and tell him to go for it or do we call time and look elsewhere? Is there anybody else available who could realistically be expected to launch a team at the Premiership whilst at the same time have experience of winning or going close to winning the Champions League?

Just a couple of things to ponder on.

Lets just ...Analyze, Analyze, and Analyze some more.

Just like Benitez does at home.

IT's all If 's and But's dude.

if the league has gone, only Champions league left worth winning.

Fourth place is pre-requisite if Benitez wants employment next season.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:03 pm

I think a lot of peoples expectations are too high. We haven't been truly challenging for the league title since we last won it. And when i say challenging i mean still in with a realistic shout of winning it with only a few games to go. We need to put ourselves in that position first, before we can even think of taking the next step and winning it.

At the start of the season I had high hopes like everyone else, but in my opinion the :censored:

going on off the field has been killing the team on the pitch. In no way do i want to see rafa out at the moment though. If he does a Houllier and takes us forward and then backwards then, and only then should we talk about a change.

by **JohnBull** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:29 pm

Over the past 19 years we've had sides good enough to win the premiership.
The players have been alright but we've been blighted with "managers" who were not managers. We've been through the mill with "bosses" who wanted to be mates with the players, who wanted to bully the players, or now when we've the best coach we've ever had but a guy who's got no motivational skills.

The players we've got now were, largely, good players when we bought them and the problems stem from "round pegs in square holes". The Alonso I'm watching lately is not the same guy who was the best long passer I've seen since Souey. The Kuyt I'm seeing is not the same buzzing forward that first came here. Crouchy's not the same lad who scored one of the best hatricks I've seen off a Liverpool player. You can go on and on. The scouse lads are still playing their hearts out, but that's the nature of the beast. The managers job is to try and instill this attitude into the other players. Get rid of the splits that have formed in the dressing room and get rid of these stupid group hugs and the other public pretence of a team spirit that's not there at the moment.
Everyone seems to think that we can buy our way out of this situation but I don't see the point in adding to the confusion. Can anyone be certain that a £10m CB will be any better than Jack Hobbs who looks a good prospect to me. Am I the only one who would like to see Babel alongside Torres in which would be his natural position ?, for more than just a couple of games. There are players in the squad who appear to be along for the ride and I include Kewell in that group, get shut and save the money. This isn't fantasy league football, buying for the sake of buying just doesn't make sense.
The title is nowhere near out of reach but it soon will be with the attitude that some players are carrying around. Where's Mr Motivator when you need him ?

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:57 pm

JohnBull wrote:Over the past 19 years we've had sides good enough to win the premiership.
The players have been alright but we've been blighted with "managers" who were not managers. We've been through the mill with "bosses" who wanted to be mates with the players, who wanted to bully the players, or now when we've the best coach we've ever had but a guy who's got no motivational skills.

The players we've got now were, largely, good players when we bought them and the problems stem from "round pegs in square holes". The Alonso I'm watching lately is not the same guy who was the best long passer I've seen since Souey. The Kuyt I'm seeing is not the same buzzing forward that first came here. Crouchy's not the same lad who scored one of the best hatricks I've seen off a Liverpool player. You can go on and on. The scouse lads are still playing their hearts out, but that's the nature of the beast. The managers job is to try and instill this attitude into the other players. Get rid of the splits that have formed in the dressing room and get rid of these stupid group hugs and the other public pretence of a team spirit that's not there at the moment.
Everyone seems to think that we can buy our way out of this situation but I don't see the point in adding to the confusion. Can anyone be certain that a £10m CB will be any better than Jack Hobbs who looks a good prospect to me. Am I the only one who would like to see Babel alongside Torres in which would be his natural position ?, for more than just a couple of games. There are players in the squad who appear to be along for the ride and I include Kewell in that group, get shut and save the money. This isn't fantasy league football, buying for the sake of buying just doesn't make sense.
The title is nowhere near out of reach but it soon will be with the attitude that some players are carrying around. Where's Mr Motivator when you need him ?

Good post.

As far as I'm concerned, we never get consistent performances because we're never consistent in the way we play. The secret to total football and the "Ajax system" is that all teams, from youth level upward, play in the same formation and same style. That's what we need. A Liverpool reserves and youth side should be recognizable by the way they play. That will make progressing into the first team a hell of a lot easier as well.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:19 pm

JohnBull wrote:....... or now when we've the best coach we've ever had but a guy who's got no motivational skills.

I said it 1st....and i see more and more are agreeing to it....

Rafa just can't motivate players.....

He is a great coach....but as a manager......

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:24 pm

stmichael wrote:
JohnBull wrote:Over the past 19 years we've had sides good enough to win the premiership.
The players have been alright but we've been blighted with "managers" who were not managers. We've been through the mill with "bosses" who wanted to be mates with the players, who wanted to bully the players, or now when we've the best coach we've ever had but a guy who's got no motivational skills.

The players we've got now were, largely, good players when we bought them and the problems stem from "round pegs in square holes". The Alonso I'm watching lately is not the same guy who was the best long passer I've seen since Souey. The Kuyt I'm seeing is not the same buzzing forward that first came here. Crouchy's not the same lad who scored one of the best hatricks I've seen off a Liverpool player. You can go on and on. The scouse lads are still playing their hearts out, but that's the nature of the beast. The managers job is to try and instill this attitude into the other players. Get rid of the splits that have formed in the dressing room and get rid of these stupid group hugs and the other public pretence of a team spirit that's not there at the moment.
Everyone seems to think that we can buy our way out of this situation but I don't see the point in adding to the confusion. Can anyone be certain that a £10m CB will be any better than Jack Hobbs who looks a good prospect to me. Am I the only one who would like to see Babel alongside Torres in which would be his natural position ?, for more than just a couple of games. There are players in the squad who appear to be along for the ride and I include Kewell in that group, get shut and save the money. This isn't fantasy league football, buying for the sake of buying just doesn't make sense.
The title is nowhere near out of reach but it soon will be with the attitude that some players are carrying around. Where's Mr Motivator when you need him ?

Good post.

As far as I'm concerned, we never get consistent performances because we're never consistent in the way we play. The secret to total football and the "Ajax system" is that all teams, from youth level upward, play in the same formation and same style. That's what we need. A Liverpool reserves and youth side should be recognizable by the way they play. That will make progressing into the first team a hell of a lot easier as well.

we just brought in a youth director or whatever his title is ( i think it is technical manager, that comes from the total football philosophy Peit Hamburg.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:28 pm

How can you be so sure that he has a lack of motivational skills? Is there not the faintest chance that all the goings on at the Club, the uncertainty of a new stadium, the stories that one owner is looking to sell, the managers position being discussed daily just might also have a destabilizing effect? Is there any room for that possiblity or do we just look only at the manager?

by **JohnBull** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:43 pm

Don't know if you are a TV supporter or go to the match, which is different because at the match you can see the body language on players who are away from the play and are watching the way we are playing. You don't need a degree in Pscyobabble to see that the players are not happy with the way we are playing.

Nothing to do with the Yanks or the new ground or if their house is getting burgled, they know things aren't right on the pitch. I don't like Kewell/Yossi/and I'm not impressed by Lucas but that's by the way. The players, individually, are good enough. The team isn't.

The players don't make a team, the manager does. It's not a maths equation because you're dealing with human beings and they will always vary. You cannot put the left back in as a striker or LM in as goalkeeper. You pick a system and use the players to fit and get them mentally prepared. It aint happening.

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