Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:In fairness though Saint and I don't want to start arguing against myself here (as it's probably the second sign of madness after spending too much time in the rotation thread, I actually read the whole thing in the shop mthe other day!) but it's not the number of injuries, it's the severity and the players importance to the team surely. Aggers injury really hurt us, whilst an injury to Riise for a week would hurt less. That said, I forgot about Drogba's injury at Chelsea, and they have got Terry out long term now, as have Man Utd with Scholes, Sylvestre, Gary Neville etc. I guess it's fdown to each poster attaching their own significance to it at the end of the day.

The crucial question though of course is this, have we and are we maximising the potential which this current group of players has? Whether it's a rotation question, a tactical one, an injuries issue or whatever. Is the points total whcih we currently have, and the one we are likely to get a fair reflection on our abilities? That's ultimately the $64 000 dollar question (or it's probably worth a bit more thqan that in todays money).

The answer to this question and any other you might have can be found in the "Great read thread" mate. Just look for my name 

bigmick wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:Why are you so reluctant to see beyond rotation? I don't remember us "rotating" against Wigan, but we drew that match. I don't remember the much-maligned rotation rearing it's ugly head against the Scum. Arguably our two worst results of the season (At least Reading was away), and rotation wasn't used. Even the Reading match saw the following lineup take to the field:

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher (Hyypia 81), Hobbs, Riise, Gerrard (Babel 70), Mascherano, Sissoko, Voronin, Torres (Kewell 60), Crouch.

Hardly a massive piece of "tinkering" when you consider the success of the very same system at St James' Park 2 weeks earlier. Torres and Gerrard played from the start. (Yes they were both withdrawn when it became apparent that the game was lost, but that's irrelevant - they were both on for at least an hour, which was plenty of time to make their mark.)

So our 3 worst results of the season - and rotation was used liberally in one, and was none-existent in the other 2.

But it's all rotation's fault... 

Why am I so reluctant to see beyond rotation? Hmmmm.

The winning of a football match is the result of a whole bunch of elements coming together. Dodgy refs, luck, skill, inspiration, mistakes and no doubt a million others, anticipation, teamwork etc etc etc. Rotation is a small part of that.

The reasons we are not going to challenge for the title are many, to pretend that I "cannot see beyond rotation" makes me a bit sad really TBH. I reckon I must post more theoretical, tactical (Ok boring if people prefer) observations on here than anybody else on the whole forum. If you genuinely believe that I think the ONLY reason we are not going to challenge is purely, simply and absolutely because of rotation then either you don't bother your erse reading my posts (and I can't blame you for that) or I haven't made myself clear. I'll try harder, but please be aware that I believe that a football match or a series of football matches are decided by many issues, not just rotation.

Now the next bit. You say you don't remember us rotating against Wigan. I have to ask why not, it was only this week? Didn't we change the formation completely, bringing Pennant back for his first game after one of the much debated "injuries" and play a kind of 4-5-1?   That said you're right we didn't rotate against Man Utd. I'm not really sure what you mean though by the point, are you saying that we lost because we didn't rotate, or the fact we didn't rotate didn't make any difference? As for the Reading Away game in which we didn't really rotate in, didn't we play a kind of 4-3-3 with Crouch and Voronin as the wide-men? I'm also not sure about people being withdrawn being "irrelavent", but I guess in terms of this discussion it is so no matter. You're quite right though, we did play a similar system to the Reading game away to Newcastle. If we played them every week I have no doubts whatsoever we'd be crowned Champions.

s@int wrote:Football injury list

Chelsea
2.1 Michael Essien M 
2.1 Claude Makelele M 
31.12 Petr Cech G 
31.12 Andriy Shevchenko
28.12 Frank Lampard M
26.12 Carvalho D
19.12 John Terry D
7.12 Didier Drogba F
28.11 Florent Malouda

Man U

4.1 Carlos Tevez F
4.1 Wayne Rooney F
26.12 Edwin van der Sar G
7.12 Gary Neville D
23.10 Paul Scholes M
19.9 Mikael Silvestre D 
13.8 Ben Foster

Liverpool

4.1 Jermaine Pennant M 
4.1 Daniel Agger D
28.12 Sami Hyppia D

Now while that is not a complete list of all the injuries sustained by the 3 sides I think it gives an indication that there has been more than our team that has sustained serious loss of players through injury. Best I could find, maybe someone can find better?

LINK

bigmick wrote:In fairness though Saint and I don't want to start arguing against myself here (as it's probably the second sign of madness after spending too much time in the rotation thread, I actually read the whole thing in the shop mthe other day!) but it's not the number of injuries, it's the severity and the players importance to the team surely. Aggers injury really hurt us, whilst an injury to Riise for a week would hurt less. That said, I forgot about Drogba's injury at Chelsea, and they have got Terry out long term now, as have Man Utd with Scholes, Sylvestre, Gary Neville etc. I guess it's fdown to each poster attaching their own significance to it at the end of the day.

The crucial question though of course is this, have we and are we maximising the potential which this current group of players has? Whether it's a rotation question, a tactical one, an injuries issue or whatever. Is the points total whcih we currently have, and the one we are likely to get a fair reflection on our abilities? That's ultimately the $64 000 dollar question (or it's probably worth a bit more thqan that in todays money).

Lando_Griffin wrote:[

This "Nailing colours to the mast" is a bit sh*t, too, as the vast majority of those who "nailed" their colours change the f*ckers every 2 minutes. (Present company excepted, of course. )

As I've always said - I am pro-Rafa, and whatever methods he deems necessary I will support. Not blindly, not unconditionally - but IMHO he's not done anything to justify the constant abuse he recieves. Particularly as he's won everything worth winning, save for the f*cking English Premiership.

I suppose it's a matter of trust.

Lando_Griffin wrote:There's a glitch in this thread - it says Nanny posted last, but I can't see it.

NANNY RED wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:[

This "Nailing colours to the mast" is a bit sh*t, too, as the vast majority of those who "nailed" their colours change the f*ckers every 2 minutes. (Present company excepted, of course. )

As I've always said - I am pro-Rafa, and whatever methods he deems necessary I will support. Not blindly, not unconditionally - but IMHO he's not done anything to justify the constant abuse he recieves. Particularly as he's won everything worth winning, save for the f*cking English Premiership.

I suppose it's a matter of trust.

Well ive nailed my colours to the mast well and proper

Good statement Lando regarding Rafa abuse.
Ive actualy became of the opinion latly though that some supporters are obsessed and i mean driven to distraction on winning the prem.

I want us to win the prem i want us to win everything that we take part in but it seems some people are only happy with winning the EPL and nothing else is good enough.

It could be argued and i know it might sound like ive just escaped but did Rafa bring us the goods to soon. That now we will be only happy with the prem

Im not one of them obsessive supporters by the way that think only the prem is good enough. It will come and it will come with Rafa as our boss

(This thread is going to rapidly increase in length if I have to post a glitch-report in order that I might see the latest posts! )

I have to agree with you totally. The climate on here is basically "If you can't win us the Premiership NOW, then you can f*ck off."

It's an obsession that's only going to lead to a spate of heart attacks.

Where's the patience? Where's the realisation that the Champions' League is MILES more prestigious than the Premiership, and no-one has a better record in that competition over the last 4 years than Rafa?
"It's easier to win..." - is it F*CK! You play the best teams in the World - how is that easier than battling against Bolton and f*cking Newcastle? Just because it's a shorter competition, people mistakenly think it's easier. How? Over 38 games, you have more chance to make up for a bad result.

But then people come out with "Well if we can beat Barcelona, etc, but not Bolton, it obviously means that Rafa can't deal with the Premiership."

They conveniently forget the fact that we beat Sh*tski on the way to both finals.

They conveniently forget that Rafa accumulated our highest ever Premiership points total.

They conveniently forget that we embarked upon our biggest ever winning streak.

They conveniently forget his methods broke all our defensive records.

They conveniently forget we won the FA Cup, beating Sh*tski, Mancs and West Ham (all Premiership sides) along the way.

Here's a thought:

Maybe - just MAYBE, our current team isn't as good as people want to think, and it's Rafa's tactical genius that won us the f*cking competitions. Maybe HE is to thank for the good times, rather than to blame for the bad.

Maybe.But telling the gang of b*stards on here who can't wait to see him sacked is as pointless as plaiting snot.

s@int wrote:

F*ck me - The scum have lost 3 games this season - that's more than us.

Sh*tski have lost 3 games, too.

They aren't maximizing THEIR potential - should their bosses be sacked, too? Why aren't they lambasted by all and sundry?

Answer?

Because it's much easier to blame rotation.

Answer

Because they are still in the title race, and Chelsea and the mancs have won the title in the last couple of years mate

NANNY RED wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:There's a glitch in this thread - it says Nanny posted last, but I can't see it.

lol im here

Thank God! I'm starting to go stare-crazy with all this negativity...

s@int wrote:I was meaning Arsenal are still in the title race, and the mancs and Chelsea have both won the league in the last couple of years

Ah right...   

s@int wrote:I was meaning Arsenal are still in the title race, and the mancs and Chelsea have both won the league in the last couple of years

I am not trying to be negative Lando, just trying to be realistic. FFS I have already said I would be happy with the FA CUP nevermind the CL.