Liverpool FC Forum

by **jedwards** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:37 pm

We are out of winning the league since Arsenal match at home, when we couldn't beat them then, and since then have been study decline; all the LFC players knew they would not match Arsenal, M. United, or Chelsea.
Over the passed three seasons under the clever Benitez, his team is always 10 - 15 points behind the league leaders, by the month of January of the past three years!, and every summer he goes to the board of directors and ask for more money to buy more average players, apart from very few top class one.

The manager of every top football club in this league is fully responsible for team failure, in LFC is Benitez is at fault and he is fully responsible for his team failure of not get the results against middle and lower teams in league, he is the one who select his buys, and select his team, to play his negative tactics week in week out, he takes the full blame, not the players, let us look at the players he brought in this summer, and last summer, the likes of Voronin (very average), Leto (very average), Kuyt (very average) Aurelio (very average), and some many more. Benitez had paid top £ for those below average players, and we expect him and his player to compete with top teams of this league, come on, let us be real, wining the league under this idiot Benitez is totally beyond him, and I have said that last season. You do not expect a very negative managers who make so many judgment mistakes through out the whole season, to win the league.
No WAY

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:39 pm

puroresu wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:On the odd occasion thats true, even the best sides have an off game or bad luck or poor decisions that cost them a game, but we have played 10 games at Anfield in the league and won only 4. Thats not the odd result that crops up every season, that says that there is a serious problem.

I don't honestly believe that Rafa has got the best out of our team this year, do you?

No, however the contrast between the home and away form suggests it may not be as cut and dried as the manager didnt do this or the players didnt do that.

ITs a $64m question.

But the fact that its when Rafa fks about with the formation that we tend to play badly would indicate what the answer is.

Playing badly and not getting results are two different things though mate.

Our problem has been that we have not got the results, not necessarily that we have played poorly.

We did not play badly against City, Wigan, Arsenal, Blackburn or Chelsea (League) but only have 5 points to show for it.

There is just something missing, I cant put me finger on it, it might be a couple of players it might be confidence, I dont know.

I thought we were ok v city but failed to win a game there for the taking. We were lucky to escape with a draw v arsenal. We were poor at blackburn. we deserved to beat chelsea.

The league table doesnt lie. We are 5th for a reason and thats simply cos we havent been good enough.

Not doubting that we have not been good enough mate, its there in black and white:

1 Arsenal 21 10 1 0 25 7 5 4 1 17 9 26 50
2 Man Utd 21 10 1 0 23 3 5 2 3 15 8 27 48
3 Chelsea 21 6 4 0 20 8 7 1 3 13 8 17 44
4 Man City 21 9 2 0 19 7 2 4 4 10 15 7 39

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 Liverpool 20 4 5 1 21 7 6 3 1 13 6 21 38

(Or rather in red and grey, but hey)

ITs the reason for not being good enough that we are searching for.

City, Portsmouth, Birmingham and Blackburn I felt that we lack guile. We needed somethign to unlock them, something out of the box so to speak, inspirational soemthign a bit different.

Chelsea, Spurs, Wigan and Arsenal we needed the killer instinct to not be content with one goal and go for the fuc.king jugular. Kill them off.

There you have eight games we have drawn, in just half of those if we had had the guile, killer instinct or maybe another matchwinner then we would be 8 points closer to the top and only four off it.

There is a fine line between success and failure, and we need to find a way of stepping over that line cus we are on the wrong side of it right now.

by **stmichael** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:33 pm

For me, its not the tactics but the timing. If you look at our matches, we sway from excellent to mediocre whenever we have to play 2 games in a week.

Rafa always does well when he has 1 full week to prepare his team. Ask any physical fitness expert, they will tell you too, it takes nearly 1 full week to get to the perfect condition to play near 100%. Thats the purpose of rotation. Not that Rafa does it for fun, but to get the best out of his players every game. Otherwise, we have one good game and one very very average game. And because our team is not exactly filled with top class talents, our average games are very average indeed.

I know the Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea have a first 11 they play, and nearly never rotate their top players if fit. But look at their history. Scholes, Giggs, Keane, Neville, Beckham, Henry, Vieira, Pires... they're injury prone now. We have had similar with Kewell and Owen. Thats from playing every game. I don't know if thats the way we want to treat our players. Use them then dump them? Thats why Rafa changed Gerrard's style when he came, to not overstrain.

The best way to overcome this is to have 2 full squads of quality. That way, Rafa can prepare 2 full teams for different functions. Then you can witness a truly attacking side all the time. Is this realistic for us? Probably not. But if any owners are serious about winning everything, then they should be willing to spend that much on quality

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:41 pm

Things could have been so much better if Agger hadnt been injured for so long

Rafa has been so worried about our defence with Sammi's lack of pace, and even though he has missed two games there is a dirty big hole in our defence.
If Sammi or Agger would have been fit for the City and Wigan games we would have won both games.
Unfortunalty Rafa has no control over injuries, that team picked against Wigan should have won and would have if we had our better CH playing.

by **Big Niall** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:43 pm

disagree.

Manure had practically the same 11 playing most weeks and they won league in style, final FA cup and semi final Euro. Same in their treble year.

Ferguson knows his best team and usually plays it, now and then he'll give a rest but if you see Fletcher play it is usually because of injuries.

Neville,scholes,Keane in his latter years were injury prone because they were about 33.

I dont care if a player is injury prone at that age if we win loads in the ten years they are there - why save them for a good season for when they are 34

??

I think Rafa due to his rotation has an unsettled team, too big a squad of cheaper players, and puts too much thought into tactics against Wigan,Derby, Reading etc.

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:17 pm

At the start of this year I was sure Rafa was going to win the prem with us.

I was also sure that he had learned how the prem work and what speed it runs at.

As you know I have never been a big fan of Rafa but he did prove me wrong with the CL…….but did he, all we learnt was he is a great European manager and we already know that.

Hold your head up high…………yes and admit that sometimes you got it wrong and the team you put out was not right, that you should not have taken a players off when we was 1-0 up.

Each game I feel “this is it, this will be where we can show what we can do” but often it has not ended up that way.

I still feel that we have a base in our team that could win the prem if they are used in the right way, But I am not sure Rafa will even be open to a new idea on how to use them or how to play game in the prem.

Ok so now look how the owners might see it, they have given him the money to buy players, great, but what happened, we got off to a good start and them slip up against smaller clubs, Then Rafa says we need more money.

So the owners start to think, hold on this guy wasted our money on players that are :censored:

.
No he did not but the owners are not big fans of our football and don’t understand that a small club can have a good day, but I do understand why they might not give out money till we win something or look like winning something.

I can also understand why they might not feel Rafa is the Man they would like to see spending there money. For them they would much prefer to bring in someone they pick and let him spend there money.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:45 pm

Rafa looks doomed
David Maddock 04/01/2008
Rafa Benitez knows he is on borrowed time at Liverpool as his position comes under intense pressure.

Although he should survive until the summer, the desperation surrounding the club after the 1-1 draw against Wigan - the sixth time out of their last 11 Premier League games they have failed to win - indicates how isolated the Spaniard is becoming.

It is a failing recognised yesterday by Reds defender Steve Finnan.

He said: "If you want to challenge for the title then you need to be winning games like this.

"We still hope we can win it, but I suppose we say that every season. We have slipped up at home again, and now it is two games in succession that we have given points away." Significantly, Bayern Munich yesterday announced that manager Ottmar Hitzfeld will depart in the summer to coach the Switzerland national side. Benitez is the German giants' first choice as Hitzfeld's replacement.

Six weeks ago such a move would have seemed unlikely but now, as the Merseyside club again stand depressingly distant from the race for the title, it is clear doubts are creeping in about the Spaniard's ability to turn the Reds into champions.

The American owners of Anfield are already unimpressed with his attitude towards them, and what they see as carping insubordination with his direct criticisms of how the club is run.

But it is what they think of the way Benitez influences his side that is perhaps more significant for the manager's long-term employment prospects. It was no coincidence co-owner Tom Hicks criticised Benitez when he said Liverpool looked a side who lacked the belief they could win when they played Manchester United earlier this month.

Benitez admits the current team do not have the quality to match the likes of United, Arsenal and Chelsea and conceded only two weeks ago that while his side have two players of real class, their rivals have five or six.

He was hoping to be given money in the transfer window to address that, but now - it seems - that will not happen.

The owners question the wisdom of giving money to spend to a boss who may not be there in the summer.

Benitez will argue that he has built the strongest squad Liverpool have had in years and in Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel and Lucas Leiva one that contains talented youngsters who represent the future.

Set against that, though, is the performance of the team. Liverpool have not moved on significantly in three-and-a-half years under Benitez, despite the money he has spent. And once again their title challenge looks effectively over by Christmas. The Wigan game was another example of his eccentric team selections, which often appear to backfire.

He chose to play Torres up front on his own, supported by two wingers who are recognised goalscorers.

Time is running out, and Benitez knows it. He knows, too, that perhaps the only way of saving himself now is another strong run in the Champions League. Even that, though, may not guarantee he remains in place at Anfield next season.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:55 pm

puts too much thought into tactics against Wigan,Derby, Reading etc.

I think he changes our tactics to cope with them, rather than forcing them to change their tactics to cope with us. The "park the bus" strategy is commonly used against us, but with an attacking strategy sooner or later we should be able to penetrate their defences and to be honest, if we are worried about Derby or Wigan counter-attacking us, then we aren't serious title challengers anyway.

We tend to be plodding when attacking. Dozens of "floating balls" into the penalty area. Too many flicks and backheels that go nowhere. Crosses are not whipped across the goal like they should be (because they require only the slightest of touches to direct the ball into the net using the balls own momentum from the cross to generate power).

That's why we struggle.

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:04 pm

It pains me to have to say it......but "Rafa IS doomed"....nothing will change his "Blinkered rotation and positional changes"n for the rest of the season, again he has put all his "eggs in one basket" hoping a good run to the CL final will somehow justify his tinkering of the squad. Well for me it just wont wash, he dose not seem to be able to grasp the fact that having a stable and settled side will always come out on top of having a squad of players (well some are?) that can rotate, his stuborn attitude to playing certain players in their rightful positions will become his downfall...its a case of "Adios amigo". :nod

by **Reg** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:12 pm

s@int wrote:He was hoping to be given money in the transfer window to address that, but now - it seems - that will not happen.

The owners question the wisdom of giving money to spend to a boss who may not be there in the summer.

It will be very telling if on 1st february we havent bought anyone however at that point we may as well fire him, why wait until summer?

Until that point it just remains yet more negative cr@p.

by **Big Niall** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:14 pm

Even if we win the CL (which is basically a cup competition) he should go in the Summer if we don't show HUGE improvement in the league.

Hopefully Munich will go for him in the Summer so we won't have to pay him compensation money.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:22 pm

Reg wrote:
s@int wrote:He was hoping to be given money in the transfer window to address that, but now - it seems - that will not happen.

The owners question the wisdom of giving money to spend to a boss who may not be there in the summer.

It will be very telling if on 1st february we havent bought anyone however at that point we may as well fire him, why wait until summer?

Until that point it just remains yet more negative cr@p.

I think he will get the money for a new CB. Our owners are clowns not idiots, they will want the money generate by a good CL run. I think if he doesn't get money to further strengthen the squad, then perhaps winning a cup is the only thing that MAY save him.

Early exits from both cups or failure to make the top 4 at the end of the season, and I think G&H will welcome the excuse to send him packing.

He's living on a knifes edge now in my opinion. Lose to Luton and he may not even see out the season.

It just seems unbelievable that things could go so wrong so fast.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:24 pm

The problem with rotation is that resting players may keep them fresh for the end of the season, but because the side is unsettled and constantly chopped and changed, you may already be out of contention for everything to the point where by the end of the season, your players are fresh, but they have nothing to play for.

by **europian-kings** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:34 pm

i rekon we should still play our first team....we need to know how many points we will finish behind the leaders come the end of the season to see weather we have improved and to see how much more improvment is needed. the only way to do this is to keep playing the strongest team possible!

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:35 pm

if the owners are just going to sit there and not give him the money to build a team that he thinks and win things then they should just sack him now and give the money to a new manager......if not, give Rafa the :censored:

money and see what he can do until the summer.if he still can not make the team work then sack him.

I feel like the club is in limbo right now.

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