Liverpool FC Forum

by **LittleHobo** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:33 am

no way will you get bentley for 5 million now

hes more like 12 now

also replacing luis garcia with benayoun just wasnt good enough, luis garcia was a player in the big games who had the little bit of guile

we really lack that now

by **holylamb2006** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:42 am

The whole situation is a mess .....

Should we buy players or sell them ?? maybe, maybe not...

Do we rest players for the fa and champ league ?? maybe, maybe not ...

One thing i can safely say is that i wouldnt like to be in Rafa's shoes

by **LittleHobo** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:45 am

our main problem is our full backs and wingers

we are fine down the middle.....agger, carra, gerrard, alonso, mascherano, torres

its our wide areas that let the side down......kewell, pennant and benayoun are average run of the mill players who aint up to it against the very best

poor ryan babel comes over and is made to play out of position

and our full backs are reasonable but nothing special

by **dosserboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 am

On paper, IMO, our FIRST 11 is as strong as anybody's, would anybody prefer Anderson and Hargreaves over Gerrard an Mascherano? Van der sar over Reina? Tevez over Torres? Brown over Finnan? Carragher and Agger hold up to Ferdinand and Vidic! Evra, Ronaldo and Rooney would get into our 1st Eleven, possibly Giggs, Should Man Utd be ex amount of points in front of us at this stage of the season? no way!!! Is Rafa a better manager than Fergie, Wenger and the recently departed Maureen???

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:05 am

I think if Rafa doesn't win the CL OR the FA cup he's gone. So I would play my best side in both those competitions and let the chips fall where they may in the league. (obviously making sure of 4th place)

I think Mascherano is as good as gone now, so we may as well start playing Lucas in the league more often and allowing him to gain valuable experience for next season.

I think again we should play Babel up front in the league when possible to see just what he is capable of.

I DON'T THINK WE WILL BE SEEING MANY IF ANY SIGNINGS this month. Maybe not even the CB that we were promised.

I certainly expect a clearout at the end of the season, with the squad being reduced in size and more than a few players moved on, whether we get a new manager or not.

Hopefully we will get a few top class players in while losing a few squad players.

Anyone that thinks Rafa is going to change his style and stop rotating is living in cloud cuckoo land (otherwise known as New Zealand

)

I think we may see a new five year plan and a new manager in the summer

by **Reg** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:10 am

bigmick wrote:If we assume that the League is as of now probably a bit beyond us, where do we go from here?

I'm gonna spend more time in the garage fixing the motor. Got an oil leak from two separate places round the sump and need to work out how bad it really is.

by **holylamb2006** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:11 am

Carragher and Agger hold up to Ferdinand and Vidic

I'd say Carragher is better than Vidic ....
But Ferdinand is better than Agger ...

Man u have a stronger back two

by **eds** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:14 am

Today's result has all but cemented what I have kept stating this season and last season, and that is that Benitez is not good enough and has NEVER shown signs of winning us the league and deep down inside I think he never will.

It's funny that this result has finally started sending most of the "in Rafa we trust" brigade to their final graves. RIP my deluded friends. I am not gloating (how could I after this morning's misery) but this latest result has vindicated everything I have said and pretty much proven the Leon's of this world to be very, very wrong.

Despite the "Rafa" brigade harping on about being undefeated for a large part of this season, losing only twice at home in around 40 league games, winning the CL back in 2005, Rafa winning the title twice in Spain and any irrelevant incoherent justification to his so called "greatness" the cold hard fact remains the same - we are NO closer then we were when he started at this club 4 years ago.

So Mick's question is what do we do from here? Sack him immediately? Where will that get us? We need Rafa to go down with his ship, that is season 2007-2008. Rest our best players in the league and concentrate on the CL? And risk missing out on the CL next season.......ahh no thanks. If people haven't noticed Man City are a much better team this year and we will be pushed even to finish 4th this season. Play the kids? Maybe, but besides Babel and Lucas, I am not confident in any of our other player's abilities to play in our first XI. Which is kid of funny, because Benitez has poured a lot of investment into our youth system yet we still haven't seen any signs of return yet?

What we need now is to dig in, support the players, the manager and our beloved club. We can't put our heads down in defeat and start bickering amongst ourselves, that is not what this great club stands for. We need to keep fighting, for what ever league position we finish this season, for whatever results we get from the CL and for what ever results we get from the FA Cup.

At then end of the season we need to ask some pretty tough questions. Do we keep Benitez? If not, which manager do we hire to yet again start "rebuilding"? Which players do we sell? Which players are destined to leave if Benitez does? How much money do we actually have to rebuild a proper side? Depressing things to think about but we need to keep fighting. This is LIVERPOOL FC and you will never walk alone!

by **lakes10** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:15 am

s@int wrote:I think if Rafa doesn't win the CL OR the FA cup he's gone. So I would play my best side in both those competitions and let the chips fall where they may in the league. (obviously making sure of 4th place)

I think Mascherano is as good as gone now, so we may as well start playing Lucas in the league more often and allowing him to gain valuable experience for next season.

I think again we should play Babel up front in the league when possible to see just what he is capable of.

I DON'T THINK WE WILL BE SEEING MANY IF ANY SIGNINGS this month. Maybe not even the CB that we were promised.

I certainly expect a clearout at the end of the season, with the squad being reduced in size and more than a few players moved on, whether we get a new manager or not.

Hopefully we will get a few top class players in while losing a few squad players.

Anyone that thinks Rafa is going to change his style and stop rotating is living in cloud cuckoo land (otherwise known as New Zealand )

I think we may see a new five year plan and a new manager in the summer

if this dont go well in the CL, FA cup in the next few weeks, the owners will get rid of him there and then, the new manager will have the rest of the prem year to sort the team out and look for new players and clear out the deadwood.

I do feel the only thing to save him is a CL Cup.

by **LittleHobo** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:25 am

its worrying though how we just replace the dead wood with more dead wood

current dead wood in my opinion

kuyt
aurelio - injury prone
voronin - ive given him a chance and hes too average
sissoko - hasnt improved since he got here
riise
pennant - too average to destroy the better teams in the league
kewell - injuries have taken its toll, he doesnt have the star quality anymore
crouch - i like crouch, but crouch is a confidence player, all this time out of the team has killed him off

i would keep benayoun cause he can play a few positions as cover

by **Pedro Maradona** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:37 am

lakes10 wrote:the Masherano thing with the owners might be dead in the water, i can hear them now "why buy him, you are not getting the results with him in the team, do you think if we buy him he might play better?? no"

I would like us to buy him right now but i can not see him in the team past the loan deal (due to the owners).

well if the owners are that stupid it will be a long long time before things get better round here.....

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:51 am

We are out of the league picture, so obviously we need to focus on two things in particular 1) the Champions League and 2) qualifying for next seasons Champions League. The FA Cup would be a nice bonus.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:04 am

Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:If we assume that the League is as of now probably a bit beyond us, where do we go from here?

I'm gonna spend more time in the garage fixing the motor. Got an oil leak from two separate places round the sump and need to work out how bad it really is.

Could be the rear main seal, if so its a kunt of a job. Hope not for youe sake.

I say go for the champions league.

And also its confirmed rotation wont win you the league, thats been proved tonight end of discussion on that, the anti's were proved right.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:14 am

I think we need to try as hard as we can to take full points in all of our games in January.
1) We NEED to secure a top 4 finish and Boro away and Villa are going to be tough opponents (especially considering how we are playing)

In my opinion we should sell Momo and make the Carson deal permanent tomorrow, and Voronin the next day (cheeky bit of business signing a bosman in the summer then getting a fee for him in January, might be illegal, I'm not sure)

I would work my @ss off to get big deals lined up all month, and if we take full points from the next 3, we should splash the cash and bring in one or two WORLD CLASS attacking players, about 35-40 million pounds worth, in which case I would allow Crouch to leave as well.

I would then say, OK Rafa, you have the tools now, prove to me that I can put my faith in you to bring us the league by finishing within 7 of the champion (it was 21 last year, that would be a 14 point improvement).

I would tell Rafa that if he wants cover for CB he can sell Riise.

If he doesn't want to sell and or he doesn't get backed in January, I think if he finishes within 12 points and a decent CL run should be enough to bring him back.

It shouldn't hurt out CL chances this season to go all out in January because we don't play Inter until Feb. 19.

Against Luton I want to see the following line up:
Itandje
Arbeloa Hobbs Agger Insua
Gerrard Lucas Alonso Leto
Nemeth/Lindfield Babel
I would play pretty much first teamers the rest of the rounds.

The Masherano issue is very very interesting. I keep hearing that this 17 mil is to also include wages over a 5 year contract, well what part of it is wages and what part of it is a transfer fee. How much can we budget for wages, I haven't really heard of that as a big issue in signing players, although I thought I heard that Torres and Yossi took wage cuts to play here. There is no questioning that he is a good player, only if he is worth the money and if we have it, AND even if we do have it, is it worth it, considering how much talent we have in CM and how much we are lacking in other departments. I do not think that I would say that I would sell Alonso for the cash to buy Mascherano. But I would sell Momo, Riise, and Voronin and use only that money to sign him up. I do think that would be worth it for the team if we were that strapped for cash. Mascherano Gerrard in CM is a great option to have and I think that a mascherano/Alonso or a Mascherano/Lucas CM with gerrard on the right are two other good options to have.

Not sure about Pennant/Kewell/Yossi, because I kind of like them all a little in their own way. BUT if we got rid of all of them, we might have the money for ONE top class wide player (preferably on the left). But this is not really realistic thinking. Don't see Kewell getting resigned without a MAJOR cut in pay, in which case I would keep him. Yossi will probably be kept due to his versatility, and I like Pennant but he NEEDS to come on STRONG and play much better in the 2nd half to earn a spot on this team for 08/09

I think there is a serious risk that we could do a lot of damage to the team both in the short term AND in the long term if we sack Rafa. A LOT of players stand to want out if Rafa is gone, who knows who we can hire and nobody knows how well they will do. Rafa has always kept an eye out on the future, which we might be screwing over by letting him go, so we better know for sure that he is not the man for the job and that our top 3 choice managers to replace him are ALL nearly sure bets to be better. Changing managers all the time is one way to nearly ensure you wont be great over a sustained period in a competitive league when two of the main competitors have been rock solid at the manager position for quite some time.

by **holylamb2006** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:20 am

Today's result has all but cemented what I have kept stating this season and last season, and that is that Benitez is not good enough and has NEVER shown signs of winning us the league and deep down inside I think he never will.

It's funny that this result has finally started sending most of the "in Rafa we trust" brigade to their final graves. RIP my deluded friends. I am not gloating (how could I after this morning's misery) but this latest result has vindicated everything I have said and pretty much proven the Leon's of this world to be very, very wrong.

Despite the "Rafa" brigade harping on about being undefeated for a large part of this season, losing only twice at home in around 40 league games, winning the CL back in 2005, Rafa winning the title twice in Spain and any irrelevant incoherent justification to his so called "greatness" the cold hard fact remains the same - we are NO closer then we were when he started at this club 4 years ago.

So Mick's question is what do we do from here? Sack him immediately? Where will that get us? We need Rafa to go down with his ship, that is season 2007-2008. Rest our best players in the league and concentrate on the CL? And risk missing out on the CL next season.......ahh no thanks. If people haven't noticed Man City are a much better team this year and we will be pushed even to finish 4th this season. Play the kids? Maybe, but besides Babel and Lucas, I am not confident in any of our other player's abilities to play in our first XI. Which is kid of funny, because Benitez has poured a lot of investment into our youth system yet we still haven't seen any signs of return yet?

What we need now is to dig in, support the players, the manager and our beloved club. We can't put our heads down in defeat and start bickering amongst ourselves, that is not what this great club stands for. We need to keep fighting, for what ever league position we finish this season, for whatever results we get from the CL and for what ever results we get from the FA Cup.

At then end of the season we need to ask some pretty tough questions. Do we keep Benitez? If not, which manager do we hire to yet again start "rebuilding"? Which players do we sell? Which players are destined to leave if Benitez does? How much money do we actually have to rebuild a proper side? Depressing things to think about but we need to keep fighting. This is LIVERPOOL FC and you will never walk alone!

I think thats a fair comment ....

There are alot of people who would disagree with wat u just saif about Benitez ....

But i along with others dont probably know wat to think about Benitez

This is how i see it now ... we gave him just around 4 years to build a team and yes he has done a couple of decent signings
and time for him the settle down and gel with the team and input his tatics

But as of late i was asking myself was he the right man for the job
I like the guy and just want himto do well but it just gets hard because he makes noobish mistakes that may not of been punished in spain but it is over in england

I can honestly say now that i'm 55 - 45 for benitez to stay put , I myself would give him one more season but thats just me ...

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