Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:22 pm

bigmick wrote:FWIW I actually thought Peewee got a very unfair press for his point about Rafa "seeing the light" on rotation somewhat. While it's true to say that numerically we haven't seen a massive reduction in the number of changes, we haven't seen Gerrard and Torres rested for Away games at the same time either.

Mick, mate, you are doing my head in!

You're correct that, since that 'potentially-season-ruining' away draw on Sept. 15th, Rafa has not since fielded a lineup--home or away--that didn't have either Gerrard or Torres in it. He must have seen the light that day, then? Sadly, it's taken us the better part of 2 months to get back on track to the point where the likes of Peewee have said, "ah ha, Rafa's finally come around."

The other theory, of course, is that--like with the Newcastle game--the Portsmouth line-up was an anomaly borne of the obstacles thrown up by the international break. It's not a popular theory, it would seem (at least not amongst the crew of the good ship Sensible Selection), but it does have the benefit of making sense. After all, Gerrard has been largely immune from Rafa's rotations for the better part of three seasons now (as has Carra, as has Pepe etc.). Indeed, I'm fairly confident that Gerrard would have played at Fratton Park if fit so it's doubtful that Rafa needed any further convincing on that score. With Torres, as Joe suggested, maybe he wasn't yet assured that the lad needs to play virtually every game if fit. Alternatively, given that Torres was carrying a knock, maybe Rafa was worried that things might turn out like the Arsenal match and was simply protecting a player that we couldn't afford to lose long term. It's all speculation, of course, but it strikes me as a more probable explanation than nonsense like Rafa likes to rotate 'willy nilly', or whatever certain people are calling it these days.

by **maguskwt** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:00 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Sadly, it's taken us the better part of 2 months to get back on track to the point where the likes of Peewee have said, "ah ha, Rafa's finally come around."

I don't honestly believe rafa's changed alot regarding his tactics in team selection. The only difference I can see from pee wee's point of view is that rafa has seemingly relegated kuyt to 3rd choice now... and rightfully so because he wasn't performing well (even though I still prefer him to crouch).

Having said that the reason for our marked improvement in form cannot be just down to rafa's "enlightenment" that "crouch should start ahead of kuyt" now is it?

by **Judge** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:07 pm

rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation rotation

this is for those who think i only done one liners

by **Sabre** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:19 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Sadly, it's taken us the better part of 2 months to get back on track to the point where the likes of Peewee have said, "ah ha, Rafa's finally come around."

I don't honestly believe rafa's changed alot regarding his tactics in team selection. The only difference I can see from pee wee's point of view is that rafa has seemingly relegated kuyt to 3rd choice now... and rightfully so because he wasn't performing well (even though I still prefer him to crouch).

Having said that the reason for our marked improvement in form cannot be just down to rafa's "enlightenment" that "crouch should start ahead of kuyt" now is it?

Nah, just wait through the season and watch the explanations to our success, it will get more and more bizarre (and funny), you'll hear every kind of explanation rather than a "I might have been wrong". There are people here (not Bigmick's case certainly who is humble enough) that simply must be always right.

They will say sáck Rafa and mock the people who say he's a tactical genius (even if no-one said that on the thread) and then when Rafa puts them in their place, they won't say "I was wrong", rather they'll say "See I was right all along, Rafa's seen the light".

In those cases debate is worthless, there's no point to discuss with someone who thinks he is always right. My policy is sit down, read, and have fun as the explanations for our success get more and more bizarre. And at the end, when the season ends, it will come my time to show my selection of posts that were written not that long ago asking for Rafa's head.

Because, let's not forget some people here advocated for Rafa's sacking not that long ago. And for nth time, they were wrong.

As for Torres "learning of his undroppability" we might be learning about Torres, but certainly not the man who brought him and paid for him a transfer record. Now the fact he's having a run of games is being highlighted because it's convenient to stick to the guns, but in the case of Alonso he was played all the games of the league before his injury, meaning, this continuous run of games and players that are in a good form playing more, IS NOT NEW, AND HAS BEEN DONE ALWAYS.

But you see, everything is valid now to stick to the guns of antirotation.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:34 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Mick, mate, you are doing my head in!

Spot on.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:13 pm

stmichael wrote:In reality, Rafa has 'rotated'" 41 times since our last defeat (against Besiktas) - that's 41 changes in nine matches. In other words, an average of about 4.6 rotations per match, no fewer than he made before (in fact, above his average for the last two seasons). In fact, he made five changes from the team that drew 0-0 with Blackburn, and had we not thumped Besiktas 8-0, we'd have seen headlines about squad rotation.

Rafa then made no changes against Fulham, and there was amazement that the tinkerman extraordinaire had kept the same line-up. Six changes were made to the side to face Newcastle, and had we not won 3-0 (and it could have been 6-0 if Fernando Torres had taken his hat-trick of clear chances) we'd have again seen Alan Hansen and the other pundits going on about Rafa's rotation.

Five changes followed that match as we hosted Porto, and again, you can imagine the headlines had we not won 4-1. Then there were four more changes this past weekend, and our 4-0 win again kept the critics of squad rotation silent.

So I'm afraid the injuries haven't done anything to stop Rafa from rotating. In fact, Agger was almost never rotated before his injury, and Xabi was rotated no more or less than Javier Mascherano, Momo Sissoko and Lucas Leiva have been since he was crocked. In fact, Lucas didn't get many matches at all prior to Xabi's injury and the rotation was between the other three, while now with Alonso injured, Lucas is being rotated in and out in his place.

Our strikers are still being rotated as much as they were when the anti-rotation headlines were a fixture on the back pages. Our improvement has nothing to do with a more settled side. It is simply the big players starting to pull their weight (most notably Steven Gerrard), the team finally converting chances into goals, and a general improvement in attitude and confidence.

Bang on.

by **bigmick** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:41 pm

Look

, big sigh. I've said on a number of occasions over the last few weeks that we are playing very well, we are playing with rhythm, we are mass rotating. I don't FWIW think it's because of rotation (and to think those who are claiming it is, were the very same people who claimed our "blip" earlier in the season was nothing to do with rotation :laugh:

) I think it's because of a number of reasons (sound familiar guys?

).

I actually think we have already fecked ourselves to a lesser or greater extent by chopping and changing the team to an unnecessary extent at the start of the season, but we will see. On the question of Peewee's point, I am not saying that Rafa has seen the light in terms of a numerical reduction in changes, nor that I agree entirely with Peewee's stance. I do though think that one or two were a little overly dismissive of his point about the types of rotation currently employed. Torres at the moment (well until tomorrow anyway) plays every game, so does Gerrard. Both came on as subs as we were hanging on for a draw at Pompey, so without raking over the coals again, neither were injured beyond the point of being able to take part, and particularly in the case of Torres, should definately have played. It was and is one of the toughest away matches of the season.

One last point. I do wish the pro's would just hold fire a tad on the gloating as it really is a bit early..... believe me I have some experience on this

You lot are tempting fate big time with your over the top self congratulation. Our whole season could take a dramatic turn for the worse over the next couple of weeks, and even if we get positive results in our two huge games (by positive we obviously must beat Marseilles, and I think avoidance of defeat against Man Utd while not being what we are looking for won't be a disaster either) it won't mean the rotation argument is over.

We (if we do manage to beat or draw with Man Utd) are looking like we will reach the half way point in the league somewhere between 0-6 points off the top which is a good effort, particularly as we tossed points away with gay abandon during our "blip". In the second half of the season, we'll still have to visit the Emirates, Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge, so all this mutual back slapping about how fantastic rotation has been is way premature IMHO. Hopefully the much vaunted extra spring in the step, freshness, etc from players taking it in turns to sit on their erse during the course of the season ill come into effect. As the stats proved, we certainly didn't pick up the most points in the League post Christmas last season, but we will certainly need to do so this time around.

To answer another point that has started to appear quite regularly "so are you saying rotation is OK as long as Torres and Gerrard play?". No, not at all. Obviously it is less detrimental to the team if you rotate/rest/swap the two full-backs rather than your two best players, but it doesn't make it Ok in my opinion. Similarly, if Reina was to start getting rotated it would have more effect than leaving Benayoun on the bench, and my pointing these things out is merely a statement of the glaringly obvious. My feeling is that while you can't play the same team every single week, you can just about do so. Victories against Besiktas, Newcastle, Bolton and the like don't convince me that the same positive results wouldn't have been achieved with a settled team, although I am the first to accept that the team is now playing extremely well within the rotational framework. Over a course of the season though, I'm fairly certain that rotation "Rafa style" is not the way to get the upmost out of a bunch of players.

Like I keep saying, we will see. Now everybody should relax and enjoy the ride, because I certainly am. Just hold back on the gloating though. If we win the title, I will prostrate myself before you and you can take it turns to run up and kick me in the goolies as hard as you can. It won't be enjoyable, but at least I'll have the compensation of knowing we've won the title. As it is right now, I'm having to put up with the gloating even though I know that eventually I'll be proven 100% right

by **taff** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:07 pm

There will be some gloating Mick

or humble pie depending on the next few results

Just for the record, my view on this is is Rafa has decided to rotate from the start and sees the league as a marathon not a sprint. When results were not going our way I was tempted to agree with you as you make some good points but I think that its a gamble that might pay off towards the end of the season. You see teams falling off the pace after the New Year and we took our gamble early on and will end up with a fresher squad who know where they fit in, whether the points dropped will affect us later on is part of that gamble.

We also dont have any players who know what its like to win a league and thats something that could go against us. I can only suppose that Rafa wants a group of players who when the pressure gets increased will be fresh and up for the challenge.

Its a risky strategy but one that has worked for him in Spain. The PL is different but not neccessarily tougher although Sky have their views on that.

Rafa has not seen the light IMO he is just sticking to his strategy and hopefully its a good one. Next May will either have journos gushing about his genius or his stupidity but at least he has the courage to stand by is convictions.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:43 pm

bigmick wrote:Look, big sigh. I've said on a number of occasions over the last few weeks that we are playing very well, we are playing with rhythm, we are mass rotating. I don't FWIW think it's because of rotation (and to think those who are claiming it is, were the very same people who claimed our "blip" earlier in the season was nothing to do with rotation ) I think it's because of a number of reasons (sound familiar guys? ).

This may come as something of a surprise but I completely agree with you here. I don't think our recent good form is because of rotating. Indeed, it would be riduculous for me to criticize anti-rotationers for making every bad result about rotation and then do the same thing when we have a run of good results. As you say, there are a number of reasons why we're playing well at the moment. Rotation may be--indeed probably is--part of the reason at some level but I'm not about to sit here and pretend it is the whole reason. It's not.

I actually think we have already fecked ourselves to a lesser or greater extent by chopping and changing the team to an unnecessary extent at the start of the season, but we will see. On the question of Peewee's point, I am not saying that Rafa has seen the light in terms of a numerical reduction in changes, nor that I agree entirely with Peewee's stance. I do though think that one or two were a little overly dismissive of his point about the types of rotation currently employed. Torres at the moment (well until tomorrow anyway) plays every game, so does Gerrard. Both came on as subs as we were hanging on for a draw at Pompey, so without raking over the coals again, neither were injured beyond the point of being able to take part, and particularly in the case of Torres, should definately have played. It was and is one of the toughest away matches of the season.

As you know, I've been heavily critical of this "Rafa's seen the light" argument and I remain so for two reasons:

First, neither the raw rotation numbers nor the specifics of the team selections and tactics chosen match-to-match bear this argument out at all. The smugness underlying the whole 'Rafa's finally pulled his fingered out and recognized what we've been saying all along' argument wouldn't be half so galling if it weren't so patently untrue. Moreover, when you have to go back almost three months to the Portsmouth game to point out the one and only time all season that Rafa decided not to start either Gerrard or Torres in a match as evidence that he has started to make 'more sensible selections', I hope you can understand how hollow that rings. Without raking back over those coals myself, I'll just say that however you may wish to interpret the significance of the teamsheet that day at Fratton Park, it can hardly be denied that the resting of Torres and Gerrard was a one-off--an anomaly--when compared to the teamsheets for the rest of the season. Even if Rafa did make a mistake that day, it hardly constitutes the extended bout of "selectorial silliness" that he has been accused of by some and it certainly cannot in any way be used to explain why we are getting results now.

And, the second reason why I'm so strongly opposed to the "seen the light" argument is because it is such an unbelievably self-serving position. It attempts to shut down the whole rotation debate by arguing that the only possible way that the team could play well is if Rafa changed his methods. Well he hasn't changed his methods and yet we are playing well so let's have a proper discussion of why that might be and what that might say about rotation Rafa-style. Indeed, rotation is suddenly a much more interesting thing to talk about, IMO, so I'm not having any of this nonsense about Rafa changing his methods just as things get interesting.

One last point. I do wish the pro's would just hold fire a tad on the gloating as it really is a bit early..... believe me I have some experience on this You lot are tempting fate big time with your over the top self congratulation. Our whole season could take a dramatic turn for the worse over the next couple of weeks, and even if we get positive results in our two huge games (by positive we obviously must beat Marseilles, and I think avoidance of defeat against Man Utd while not being what we are looking for won't be a disaster either) it won't mean the rotation argument is over.

We (if we do manage to beat or draw with Man Utd) are looking like we will reach the half way point in the league somewhere between 0-6 points off the top which is a good effort, particularly as we tossed points away with gay abandon during our "blip". In the second half of the season, we'll still have to visit the Emirates, Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge, so all this mutual back slapping about how fantastic rotation has been is way premature IMHO. Hopefully the much vaunted extra spring in the step, freshness, etc from players taking it in turns to sit on their erse during the course of the season ill come into effect. As the stats proved, we certainly didn't pick up the most points in the League post Christmas last season, but we will certainly need to do so this time around.

I agree that things have gotten a bit OTT in the last week or so. There's still a long hard road ahead of us and I'm not yet convinced we have it in us to stay with the leaders until May. I'll happily be proven wrong on that but I still think we'll come up short this season. The difference, of course, is that I think we would have come up short even if we didn't have rotation Rafa-style. What I would say, though, is that the recent run of results do show that we can still play well while rotating which, in turn, tells me that a lot of the anti-rotation commentary during our blip was every bit as OTT as the positive stuff is now. So, I guess both brigades are guilty of over-statement and gloating!

To answer another point that has started to appear quite regularly "so are you saying rotation is OK as long as Torres and Gerrard play?". No, not at all.

You might not be saying that, mate, but some of your shipmates seem to lean in that direction.

Victories against Besiktas, Newcastle, Bolton and the like don't convince me that the same positive results wouldn't have been achieved with a settled team, although I am the first to accept that the team is now playing extremely well within the rotational framework.

Exactly in the same way that draws against Portsmouth, Porto and Birmingham don't convince me that negative results are down to rotation.

Over a course of the season though, I'm fairly certain that rotation "Rafa style" is not the way to get the upmost out of a bunch of players.

Obviously I'm less certain but I'll be prepared to admit I was wrong if we fall well back of the leaders by May.

by **maguskwt** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:53 am

Bad Bob wrote:
To answer another point that has started to appear quite regularly "so are you saying rotation is OK as long as Torres and Gerrard play?". No, not at all.

You might not be saying that, mate, but some of your shipmates seem to lean in that direction.

Ok... I brought up that question in my above post because I'm sick and tired of people hinting and implying things without actually saying it.

Other statements that seem to hint and imply without actually saying anything is " I see the difference (in rafa's tactics) it's a pity you don't see it" or something along that line.

so what's the difference? Is it that rafa's playing crouch ahead of kuyt now? cause that's the only major difference I see in rafa's team selection or tactics.

Having said that it is very narrow minded to think that that's the main reason for our marked improvement in form.

I agree with mick and bad bob that it's a number of reasons... (same with our blip)...

so mick, if you believe that why can't you believe that it's a number of reasons for the blip as well?

these number of reasons are as follow:

1. Gerrard's regaining of form: like it or not (I like it

) he can make the most influence in our play and when his form is good it shows.

2. Our overall passing and movement: during our blip our passing and movement was terrible... basically similar to newcastle's when we played them. Luckily we didn't pay a big price as they did. What's the reason for this? training not suitable? our players weren't familiar with one another? injuries disrupted the way we play? or overall the players' forms were not good? Whats the reason for our improvement? did rafa change the training? players getting more familiar with one another? or the players forms simply picked up? or rotation finally working? Hard to pin down a reason here.

3. Benyaoun's trickery: I do think that his play made some difference. His running with the ball and his trickery can keep the opponents second guessing what our next move will be. This will give alot of opportunities for other players. He still vanishes later in the game though... can't seem to keep up his play for 90 full minutes. And also other players need to know more how to play with him... alot of the times his team mates won't run to where he's passing the ball... on top of them is my favourite culprit Peter Crouch...

4. Harry Kewell's return: I must confess I've written off Harry Kewell... but his return surely reinvigorated our wing play down the left... similar to Benyaoun, but less tricky, his play provide more penetration than any other winger we have on the left... what's more I think Riise plays better with Kewell on the left...

5. Torres' Consistent goal scoring: What can I say... he makes things easier for us... what's so great about him is that even if he's alone up front with 3 defenders against him... when he gets the ball near the box, immediately he becomes a goal threat. Same can't be said for our other strikers...

6. Emergence of Lucas: This is fairly debatable since Mascherano wasn't playing badly. But Lucas provides us with an option way better than Sissoko. Whenever he plays we've looked a very stable side. And whenever he plays Gerrard seems to be able to press forward for effectively. I can't really pin point what's so special about him... he's almost like a cross between Alonso and Masherano... in other words he's a very good all-rounder... and he keeps things simple and does not lose possession too much. I think this is the reason Gerrard can pressure the opponents more with Lucas playing. If I were rafa... I'd stick to rotating between Mascherano and Lucas and only use Sissoko for special occasions (i.e. all out diruption of our opponent's play).

7. Crouch for Kuyt: Like I said I don't really think this is a major reason. But I'll be foolish to say that it doesn't play a part. Kuyt has been stale in front...Crouch has been enthusiastic and fresh in front... he chipped in with some goals... so fair play to him... But watch out Kuyt seems to have picked up his form because whenever he comes on as a sub he has looked good providing some good assists...

and that is all for now...

by **Judge** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:50 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Mick, mate, you are doing my head in!

Spot on.

thought you'd sorted your differences

by **stmichael** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:49 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
To answer another point that has started to appear quite regularly "so are you saying rotation is OK as long as Torres and Gerrard play?". No, not at all.

You might not be saying that, mate, but some of your shipmates seem to lean in that direction.

Ok... I brought up that question in my above post because I'm sick and tired of people hinting and implying things without actually saying it.

Other statements that seem to hint and imply without actually saying anything is " I see the difference (in rafa's tactics) it's a pity you don't see it" or something along that line.

so what's the difference? Is it that rafa's playing crouch ahead of kuyt now? cause that's the only major difference I see in rafa's team selection or tactics.

Having said that it is very narrow minded to think that that's the main reason for our marked improvement in form.

I agree with mick and bad bob that it's a number of reasons... (same with our blip)...

so mick, if you believe that why can't you believe that it's a number of reasons for the blip as well?

these number of reasons are as follow:

1. Gerrard's regaining of form: like it or not (I like it ) he can make the most influence in our play and when his form is good it shows.

2. Our overall passing and movement: during our blip our passing and movement was terrible... basically similar to newcastle's when we played them. Luckily we didn't pay a big price as they did. What's the reason for this? training not suitable? our players weren't familiar with one another? injuries disrupted the way we play? or overall the players' forms were not good? Whats the reason for our improvement? did rafa change the training? players getting more familiar with one another? or the players forms simply picked up? or rotation finally working? Hard to pin down a reason here.

3. Benyaoun's trickery: I do think that his play made some difference. His running with the ball and his trickery can keep the opponents second guessing what our next move will be. This will give alot of opportunities for other players. He still vanishes later in the game though... can't seem to keep up his play for 90 full minutes. And also other players need to know more how to play with him... alot of the times his team mates won't run to where he's passing the ball... on top of them is my favourite culprit Peter Crouch...

4. Harry Kewell's return: I must confess I've written off Harry Kewell... but his return surely reinvigorated our wing play down the left... similar to Benyaoun, but less tricky, his play provide more penetration than any other winger we have on the left... what's more I think Riise plays better with Kewell on the left...

5. Torres' Consistent goal scoring: What can I say... he makes things easier for us... what's so great about him is that even if he's alone up front with 3 defenders against him... when he gets the ball near the box, immediately he becomes a goal threat. Same can't be said for our other strikers...

6. Emergence of Lucas: This is fairly debatable since Mascherano wasn't playing badly. But Lucas provides us with an option way better than Sissoko. Whenever he plays we've looked a very stable side. And whenever he plays Gerrard seems to be able to press forward for effectively. I can't really pin point what's so special about him... he's almost like a cross between Alonso and Masherano... in other words he's a very good all-rounder... and he keeps things simple and does not lose possession too much. I think this is the reason Gerrard can pressure the opponents more with Lucas playing. If I were rafa... I'd stick to rotating between Mascherano and Lucas and only use Sissoko for special occasions (i.e. all out diruption of our opponent's play).

7. Crouch for Kuyt: Like I said I don't really think this is a major reason. But I'll be foolish to say that it doesn't play a part. Kuyt has been stale in front...Crouch has been enthusiastic and fresh in front... he chipped in with some goals... so fair play to him... But watch out Kuyt seems to have picked up his form because whenever he comes on as a sub he has looked good providing some good assists...

and that is all for now...

Good post mate. You make some good points and I agree with a lot of it.

As you say, Kewell has come into the frame and offers that little bit of quality on the left side which we have generally been missing. Now I like Babel as a player but he's never an outside left in a million years. Also, Rafa seems to have also stopped using the daft pairing of Voronin and Kuyt (Besiktas away for example). He's also using Sissoko less and Lucas more and has started to use Crouch a little more which is encouraging.

Earlier in the season we were seeing Leto and Sissoko getting more opportunities and we didnt have any real quality on the left as Riise has been struggling for form for a while now. Think about it do you think Gerrard likes giving possesion to Leto or Sissoko in a match, or does he prefer, Lucas, Kewell or Mascherano? Does someone like Gerrard prefer to attack alongside Torres and or Crouch or the dynamic pairing of Voronin and Kuyt?

Difference is, Rafas found the right blend in recent weeks imho.

by **Judge** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:41 pm

dynamic pairing of voronin and kuyt !!

lol @ st mike

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:53 pm

Well it'll no doubt be the main topic of discussion over the next couple of days, and as the match thread is quite busy, I thought I'd put this in here.

Firstly, todays result was not solely down to rotation. Secondly, the players he had out on the park should have been good enough to beat Reading. Thirdly, we have played with similar formations/total lack of apparent width before and won easily at harder places to go to than Reading. Fourthly, you can't play the same team in every single game and we've got two other huge games coming up. Fifthly, we have been rotating every week for the last month or so and have been winning every week, easily. Sixthly, Torres, Gerrard and carragher all played, exactly what the anti's have been on about. Seventhly, we got unlucky with refereeing decisions.

Right, all that said I thought the line-up today was overly experimental and was asking for trouble. I've thought that (and have said so) about a couple of line-ups recently, but we've defied any misgivings I've had (OK then proved me wrong if you prefer

) by winning very convincingly. Today we took a gamble and it didn't work.

The one thing todays result does do is to put our start into more sharper context. I've been saying for a while now that despite the "but we're unbeaten" claims, we're probably at least three and perhaps as many as six points adrift of where we need to be given the kindness of our fixtures so far. I think today has proven that one dodgy result, one bad performance, one dodgy selection, one blind ref and we're fecking pretty nearly gone for all money.

We aren't though, and two good results will make it all seem OK again. I don't think the selection today was another Fratton Park and certainly not another Bramhall Lane, but it was very unwise. Once again we've proven the point that you can take a bunch of players (it would be doing Rafa a disservice to call them a team as he has successfully used lots of different combinations over the last few weeks) who are absolutely flying, but if you play a few of them out of position and mix it around too much you can make them seem quite ordinary again. We've also recently proven that momentum is hard to get back, but once you've got it you can roll teams over at will. We need to get it back and fecking sharpish, and the broken record bit is that once you've got it you've got to do everything in your power to keep it.

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:02 pm

Maybe we need manager rotation, one for the Premiership and Rafa for the Champions League (and cups) He seems hell bent on coming up with a tactic to beat the opposition when bog standard 4-4-2 should be enough to beat the likes of Reading. All his tactics do is trip up his own side and help the opposition, we end up not only competing with Reading but with the tactics as well. Player for player Liverpool are a better side than Reading, once Rafa has implimented tactics and changes in personnel it is more of an even playing field. Let Coppell and the managers of weaker sides put in place the tactics and then adapt DURING the game if need be to overcome or counter them.

I may not like Jose but you know with him he'll abandon a plan that isn't working at half time and change things. Rafa is too stubborn, and with the Reading result all his substitutions did was annoy the fans. Seeing Sissoko, Voronin and Crouch play poorly and yet not be one of the players taken off is just more annoying than losing. I can accept defeat at Reading if they played well, but we played them with eight men (or less)

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