Liverpool FC Forum

by **JohnBull** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:16 pm

Stop looking at the individuals and look at the team - they do not seem to know each other because it's a different partner each week.
Err ? Does this one like it to his feet or two yards ahead or a yard behind ? If I put it to his head will he take it ? They don't even speak the same language half the time.
I personally couldn't give a bugger who's out as long as with play like a Liverpool TEAM and pull together - it's just not happening.

by **red37** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:34 pm

JohnBull wrote:The money we've spent and the wages we're paying they should do as they're told.

I agree. In an ideal world (some would say) in the world that football used to be synonymous with and the one that found a common sympathetic purpose amongst working men, at least that might have been the case. Until in my book the advent of the blessed 'Premier League' and all the frippery and celebrity it entails..they want the bloody world on a plate. And will stop at nothing, nor perform any more or less economically than they can get away with towards the realisation of that so-called 'nirvana' with the least effort expended against their own well being in achieving that status. Not quite the majority of them. Yet. But it is an alarming trend that has been established and if left unfettered, could well signal the beginning of the end, if not the Death Knell of our beautiful game.

There was an article in todays Mirror, an interview by Roy Keane where he goes on to say, and to some degree reflects upon one or two likewise concerning observations here:

He said: "Football has lost its soul, it's definitely changed for the worse. Football is not the game I knew 10 years ago. That goes for every club. It's changing and it's sad to see. It's probably a lot colder.

"I believe that there's lots of players playing the game these days who do not love football. You're going to say 'that's amazing', but it's true. There are people playing football and it's not that important to them.

"Maybe they've had it easy and the clubs have been too quick giving out contracts. Nobody begrudges the top players getting a few bob, but it's when average players are getting a fortune and driving a big car without having done anything that people start asking questions. Everybody has to take responsibility for that.

"I was at Nottingham Forest for three years before I would even have dreamed of asking Brian Clough for a pay rise. He'd have knocked me out.

"I think it's human nature that if you're getting a small fortune, you can become a bit detached. If you're getting that much money and you're not in team, you can take things for granted. You lose it. That's where you lose the love of the game.

"A lot of it is down to the players, they're different characters now. I'm not being critical of foreign players, but a lot of people in football will tell you things are different. Football is a tough, physical game, but you see players rolling around and players trying to get other players booked.

"Managers and coaches are even trying to get other players booked, and that's why the game is losing its soul. That's a great way of putting it I have to say."

The above was edited out of an interview regarding this issue highlighted within the context of wider concerns over the 'Power drain' of the top clubs in the present game having an effect on the rest of the members of the League. The entire transcript can be found here.

KEANE

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:35 pm

JohnBull wrote:Stop looking at the individuals and look at the team - they do not seem to know each other because it's a different partner each week.
Err ? Does this one like it to his feet or two yards ahead or a yard behind ? If I put it to his head will he take it ? They don't even speak the same language half the time.
I personally couldn't give a bugger who's out as long as with play like a Liverpool TEAM and pull together - it's just not happening.

I understand were your coming from but isnt that what the training grounds for players learning each others game what the weaknesses are and there strengths

but i totally agree with you on who plays as you said as long as we win i coulnt give a :censored:

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:39 pm

For Rotation

1/ Players get a rest when needed and come back sharper

2/ When a player gets injured his replacement is match fit rather than someone who has sat on a bench for 3 months.

3/ Keeps the players who wouldn't be in the first team 11 happier because they get games.

4/ Opposition managers have trouble guessing Rafa's team (so do we )

5/ When a player gets left out because of poor form, behaviour, attitude etc no-one knows except who Rafa wants to know.

6/Players can train harder because they will get regular rests during the season

7/Minor injuries arn't as big a problem because players get time off to recover.

8/Rotation works... 2 CL finals and an FA CUP prove that

9/ More players get a chance to show how good they are rather than riding a bench all season.

10/If rotation doesn't work why do ALL the top teams use it.

Against Rotatation

1/ Disrupts the team, we play like eleven strangers

2/ Our best players arn't always on the pitch when we need them

3/ Too much depends on Rafa picking a team just strong enough to beat the opposition, rather than putting your best side out there and crushing the opposition

4/ players get rotated out of form

5/ players get unhappy when they arn't in the team every week.

6/Rotation isn't required in England as we do more conditioning work and less technical training than in Spain. Our pitches arn't as hard and its not as hot. We play with a different level of intensity as well.

7/Its the level of rotation thats the problem (too many changes)

8/ Unless you have players of equal ability you will always weaken the team using rotation. Mascherano for Alonso .... ok Gerrard for Zenden.......no

9/ Affects the moral both of our team and the opposition when our star players arn't included. Ours goes down, theirs goes up.

10/We have never even come close to making a challenge for the league in 3 years of rotation. Why should it suddenly start to work now.

The two most convincing points I have read are :-

If we are not sure if rotation works or not, why not stick to picking the best team we can every game. WE KNOW THAT WORKS!

We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:48 pm

s@int wrote:We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

Saint that quote says it all really we can debate till the cows come home but at the end of the day hes the boss

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:56 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

Saint that quote says it all really we can debate till the cows come home but at the end of the day hes the boss

True.... the question is... how much longer wil he BE the boss if this keeps up....

:down:

Sucks big time to see us play the way we have.

by **roberto green** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:00 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

Saint that quote says it all really we can debate till the cows come home but at the end of the day hes the boss

Yes he is the boss and do you think liverpool will be a better team without him?

What if he leaves or gets sacked then guess who follows? Alonso, Reina, Torres, Mascharano,Arbelao all within the next season there would be major unrest and then we have another manager who has a 5 year plan who probally wont be as good as Rafa.

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:37 pm

roberto green wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

Saint that quote says it all really we can debate till the cows come home but at the end of the day hes the boss

Yes he is the boss and do you think liverpool will be a better team without him?

What if he leaves or gets sacked then guess who follows? Alonso, Reina, Torres, Mascharano,Arbelao all within the next season there would be major unrest and then we have another manager who has a 5 year plan who probally wont be as good as Rafa.

And there's the rub......

After all the money that we've spent in the summer, THAT is the only reason why it's such a risk to let Rafa go now......

by **The Grudge** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:53 pm

s@int wrote:For Rotation

1/ Players get a rest when needed and come back sharper

2/ When a player gets injured his replacement is match fit rather than someone who has sat on a bench for 3 months.

3/ Keeps the players who wouldn't be in the first team 11 happier because they get games.

4/ Opposition managers have trouble guessing Rafa's team (so do we )

5/ When a player gets left out because of poor form, behaviour, attitude etc no-one knows except who Rafa wants to know.

6/Players can train harder because they will get regular rests during the season

7/Minor injuries arn't as big a problem because players get time off to recover.

8/Rotation works... 2 CL finals and an FA CUP prove that

9/ More players get a chance to show how good they are rather than riding a bench all season.

10/If rotation doesn't work why do ALL the top teams use it.

Against Rotatation

1/ Disrupts the team, we play like eleven strangers

2/ Our best players arn't always on the pitch when we need them

3/ Too much depends on Rafa picking a team just strong enough to beat the opposition, rather than putting your best side out there and crushing the opposition

4/ players get rotated out of form

5/ players get unhappy when they arn't in the team every week.

6/Rotation isn't required in England as we do more conditioning work and less technical training than in Spain. Our pitches arn't as hard and its not as hot. We play with a different level of intensity as well.

7/Its the level of rotation thats the problem (too many changes)

8/ Unless you have players of equal ability you will always weaken the team using rotation. Mascherano for Alonso .... ok Gerrard for Zenden.......no

9/ Affects the moral both of our team and the opposition when our star players arn't included. Ours goes down, theirs goes up.

10/We have never even come close to making a challenge for the league in 3 years of rotation. Why should it suddenly start to work now.

The two most convincing points I have read are :-

If we are not sure if rotation works or not, why not stick to picking the best team we can every game. WE KNOW THAT WORKS!

We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

I think this is a very good analisation from Saint!

The problem is that Saint sits at a p/c all day and the players dont..or the manager!

Personally id swap Rafa for Saint anyday because he is starting to make me sick!

Know all posters like you have came and went ...Managers like Rafa have not!

Blah blah blah...its rotation...supporters like you???

by **roberto green** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:55 pm

The Grudge wrote:
s@int wrote:For Rotation

1/ Players get a rest when needed and come back sharper

2/ When a player gets injured his replacement is match fit rather than someone who has sat on a bench for 3 months.

3/ Keeps the players who wouldn't be in the first team 11 happier because they get games.

4/ Opposition managers have trouble guessing Rafa's team (so do we )

5/ When a player gets left out because of poor form, behaviour, attitude etc no-one knows except who Rafa wants to know.

6/Players can train harder because they will get regular rests during the season

7/Minor injuries arn't as big a problem because players get time off to recover.

8/Rotation works... 2 CL finals and an FA CUP prove that

9/ More players get a chance to show how good they are rather than riding a bench all season.

10/If rotation doesn't work why do ALL the top teams use it.

Against Rotatation

1/ Disrupts the team, we play like eleven strangers

2/ Our best players arn't always on the pitch when we need them

3/ Too much depends on Rafa picking a team just strong enough to beat the opposition, rather than putting your best side out there and crushing the opposition

4/ players get rotated out of form

5/ players get unhappy when they arn't in the team every week.

6/Rotation isn't required in England as we do more conditioning work and less technical training than in Spain. Our pitches arn't as hard and its not as hot. We play with a different level of intensity as well.

7/Its the level of rotation thats the problem (too many changes)

8/ Unless you have players of equal ability you will always weaken the team using rotation. Mascherano for Alonso .... ok Gerrard for Zenden.......no

9/ Affects the moral both of our team and the opposition when our star players arn't included. Ours goes down, theirs goes up.

10/We have never even come close to making a challenge for the league in 3 years of rotation. Why should it suddenly start to work now.

The two most convincing points I have read are :-

If we are not sure if rotation works or not, why not stick to picking the best team we can every game. WE KNOW THAT WORKS!

We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

I think this is a very good analisation from Saint!

The problem is that Saint sits at a p/c all day and the players dont..or the manager!

Personally id swap Rafa for Saint anyday because he is starting to make me sick!

Know all posters like you have came and went ...Managers like Rafa have not!

Blah blah blah...its rotation...supporters like you???

you big creep lol

by **The Grudge** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:57 pm

roberto green wrote:
The Grudge wrote:
s@int wrote:For Rotation

1/ Players get a rest when needed and come back sharper

2/ When a player gets injured his replacement is match fit rather than someone who has sat on a bench for 3 months.

3/ Keeps the players who wouldn't be in the first team 11 happier because they get games.

4/ Opposition managers have trouble guessing Rafa's team (so do we )

5/ When a player gets left out because of poor form, behaviour, attitude etc no-one knows except who Rafa wants to know.

6/Players can train harder because they will get regular rests during the season

7/Minor injuries arn't as big a problem because players get time off to recover.

8/Rotation works... 2 CL finals and an FA CUP prove that

9/ More players get a chance to show how good they are rather than riding a bench all season.

10/If rotation doesn't work why do ALL the top teams use it.

Against Rotatation

1/ Disrupts the team, we play like eleven strangers

2/ Our best players arn't always on the pitch when we need them

3/ Too much depends on Rafa picking a team just strong enough to beat the opposition, rather than putting your best side out there and crushing the opposition

4/ players get rotated out of form

5/ players get unhappy when they arn't in the team every week.

6/Rotation isn't required in England as we do more conditioning work and less technical training than in Spain. Our pitches arn't as hard and its not as hot. We play with a different level of intensity as well.

7/Its the level of rotation thats the problem (too many changes)

8/ Unless you have players of equal ability you will always weaken the team using rotation. Mascherano for Alonso .... ok Gerrard for Zenden.......no

9/ Affects the moral both of our team and the opposition when our star players arn't included. Ours goes down, theirs goes up.

10/We have never even come close to making a challenge for the league in 3 years of rotation. Why should it suddenly start to work now.

The two most convincing points I have read are :-

If we are not sure if rotation works or not, why not stick to picking the best team we can every game. WE KNOW THAT WORKS!

We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

I think this is a very good analisation from Saint!

The problem is that Saint sits at a p/c all day and the players dont..or the manager!

Personally id swap Rafa for Saint anyday because he is starting to make me sick!

Know all posters like you have came and went ...Managers like Rafa have not!

Blah blah blah...its rotation...supporters like you???

you big creep lol

La la la la

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:21 pm

The Grudge wrote:
s@int wrote:For Rotation

1/ Players get a rest when needed and come back sharper

2/ When a player gets injured his replacement is match fit rather than someone who has sat on a bench for 3 months.

3/ Keeps the players who wouldn't be in the first team 11 happier because they get games.

4/ Opposition managers have trouble guessing Rafa's team (so do we )

5/ When a player gets left out because of poor form, behaviour, attitude etc no-one knows except who Rafa wants to know.

6/Players can train harder because they will get regular rests during the season

7/Minor injuries arn't as big a problem because players get time off to recover.

8/Rotation works... 2 CL finals and an FA CUP prove that

9/ More players get a chance to show how good they are rather than riding a bench all season.

10/If rotation doesn't work why do ALL the top teams use it.

Against Rotatation

1/ Disrupts the team, we play like eleven strangers

2/ Our best players arn't always on the pitch when we need them

3/ Too much depends on Rafa picking a team just strong enough to beat the opposition, rather than putting your best side out there and crushing the opposition

4/ players get rotated out of form

5/ players get unhappy when they arn't in the team every week.

6/Rotation isn't required in England as we do more conditioning work and less technical training than in Spain. Our pitches arn't as hard and its not as hot. We play with a different level of intensity as well.

7/Its the level of rotation thats the problem (too many changes)

8/ Unless you have players of equal ability you will always weaken the team using rotation. Mascherano for Alonso .... ok Gerrard for Zenden.......no

9/ Affects the moral both of our team and the opposition when our star players arn't included. Ours goes down, theirs goes up.

10/We have never even come close to making a challenge for the league in 3 years of rotation. Why should it suddenly start to work now.

The two most convincing points I have read are :-

If we are not sure if rotation works or not, why not stick to picking the best team we can every game. WE KNOW THAT WORKS!

We have a choice..... Rafa and rotation or change the manager, because the manager isn't going to change.

I think this is a very good analisation from Saint!

The problem is that Saint sits at a p/c all day and the players dont..or the manager!

Personally id swap Rafa for Saint anyday because he is starting to make me sick!

Know all posters like you have came and went ...Managers like Rafa have not!

Blah blah blah...its rotation...supporters like you???

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:56 pm

Ive just been looking at some stats regarding Rafas rotation

Team v Villa:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Agger
Arbeloa
Pennant
Gerrard
Alonso
Riise
Kuyt
Torres

Team v Chelsea:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Agger
Arbeloa
Pennant
Alonso
Gerrard
Riise
Torres
Kuyt
Good lord the same team!! Surely not!!

Team v Sunderland:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Pennant
Sissoko
Alonso
Babel
Torres
Voronin
Riise dropped, Kuyt and Agger rested, Gerrard injured

Team v Derby:

Reina
Finnan
Agger
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Pennant
Alonso
Mascherano
Babel
Kuyt
Torres
Carragher and Gerrard injured

Team v Portsmouth

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Agger
Arbeloa
Pennant
Alonso
Sissoko
Benayoun
Crouch
Voronin
Gerrard and Torres not risked after international duty, Kuyt and Babel rested

Team v Porto:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Pennant
Gerrard
Mascherano
Babel
Kuyt
Torres
Agger and Alonso rested

Team v Birmingham:

Reina
Arbeloa
Carragher
Hyypia
Riise
Pennant
Gerrard
Mascherano
Babel
Kuyt
Voronin
Agger and Alonso injured, Torres and Finnan rested

In three of the first seven games Rafa has decided to rest two players and in one game (after the international break) he rested 4 players, two of whom had been recovering from injuries.

Overall though the team rarely deviates from the following line-up: Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Gerrard, Babel, Kuyt, Torres

by **roberto green** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:09 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Ive just been looking at some stats regarding Rafas rotation

Team v Villa:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Agger
Arbeloa
Pennant
Gerrard
Alonso
Riise
Kuyt
Torres

Team v Chelsea:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Agger
Arbeloa
Pennant
Alonso
Gerrard
Riise
Torres
Kuyt
Good lord the same team!! Surely not!!

Team v Sunderland:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Pennant
Sissoko
Alonso
Babel
Torres
Voronin
Riise dropped, Kuyt and Agger rested, Gerrard injured
Team v Derby:

Reina
Finnan
Agger
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Pennant
Alonso
Mascherano
Babel
Kuyt
Torres
Carragher and Gerrard injured
Team v Portsmouth

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Agger
Arbeloa
Pennant
Alonso
Sissoko
Benayoun
Crouch
Voronin
Gerrard and Torres not risked after international duty, Kuyt and Babel rested
Team v Porto:

Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Pennant
Gerrard
Mascherano
Babel
Kuyt
Torres
Agger and Alonso rested
Team v Birmingham:

Reina
Arbeloa
Carragher
Hyypia
Riise
Pennant
Gerrard
Mascherano
Babel
Kuyt
Voronin
Agger and Alonso injured, Torres and Finnan rested

In three of the first seven games Rafa has decided to rest two players and in one game (after the international break) he rested 4 players, two of whom had been recovering from injuries. Overall though the team rarely deviates from the following line-up: Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Gerrard, Babel, Kuyt, Torres

Good homework there lad.

Its just a bit mad the way everyone jumps on the bandwagon when we play poorly to point at rotation (me included because im not a fan of it)but had we kept on winnig(not that we have lost in the league)we would have not much to post about.

by **redtrader74** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:16 pm

I think Nanny Red is a lass...not lad!

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