Liverpool FC Forum

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:09 pm

Here it is - the thread Sabre and a few others have requested.

Here you can give your opinion on the most controversial subject in the history of Newkit.

Be prepared to back up your points, be prepared to be told you're a div, and keep those fingers off the "report this post to a moderator" button.

Do that, and this will be a good thread.

I think Rafa's ways will lead us to the League. I think rotation is his masterplan, and although I am baffled by his decisions at times, he knows more about it than I do, so I simply place my trust in the bloke.

Now then - debate.

by **dawson99** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:31 pm

ok, i personally think rotation at this stage of the season is wrong, and heres why:

I think we need stability, build up our points and get the team going. when a player is winning the last thing he wants is to be left on the bench for the next game. and also if a player knows that rotation is in play then where is the extra motivation that players need? i know, they should fight no matter what, but when they know they will be left out next game regardless then psychologically its harder.

We should be stable now, then when we have alil cushion or a bit more pointage then we can rest a couple of players.

i do however still trust rafa to do us right.

by **Sabre** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:32 pm

Thank you Lando. Now in December, when a poster comes to say we need to buy Villa, he won't find a lenghty debate on rotation in the signing up thread.

I don't think we should start this discussion from zero, because both sides have agreed points of the other side. Quotes and replies can be brought from other threads. For those who are not sure how to do this

Code: Select all: [quote] ---> tag Just put between the above quote tag, and the below end quote tag (end=slash) whatever you want to copy and paste from other posters [/quote] ----> end tag.

I'll start my contribution on this thread by admitting several points of the other camp:

* 7 changes in a week, do affect the fluency of the team, 4 changes aswell, at a lesser extent. This extent should not be too big, and should be small enough to beat the likes of Birmingham with comfort. If that doesn't happen, then we can say the rotation affected, but definitely the performance of some players or the team as a whole wasn't good enough.

* I not only think the antirotationist have the right to express their doubts, but I'll defend their right to do so. If at some point I say that "Rafa knows more than this forum put together" what I'm trying to say is not you are foolish, but as an answer to statements that imply Rafa doesn't do things for the sake of doing them, with no reason.

* I claim again that if we're not close enough winning the title of the league this season, I'll admit the rotation system didn't work in this team and this country.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:13 pm

Rotation is necessary

You should not really rotate your match winners, especially if you arguably only have 2 (Gerrard and Torres)

You should have a base of 6 - 8 players, whose importance to the team and the fact that that they are so good that is not feasible to have replacements of the same or similar quality in your squad, meaning that these players will not be “rotated” unless their performances start to visibly dip.

by **EddieC** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:20 pm

My personal opinion is it always gets the blame but never the credit. When we go on a losing streak it's rotations fault, and when we go on a winning streak it's got nothing to do with rotation. All in all I think rotation is a good idea, and probably the reason we've reached a major final every season since Rafa arrived. The problem for me has been intergrating new players into the side. Last season, we had Kuyt, Bellamy, Gonzales, Pennant & Aurelio, and with the exception of Aurelio all were needed in the first team pretty much immediately. The season before we had Crouch, Reina, Sissoko & Zenden, with Cisse being like a new signing having missed the whole of the previous season. A lot of these signings were made late in the window, and didn't have much time to settle in before being put into action. Rafa made it clear that we needed to get our signings in early to give them time to intergrate & on the whole we did this summer, but personally I'd say if a player hasn't had the time to settle in then don't play them until they have. Rafa has had to play about with his new signings to see what works, and as he hasn't had enough time in training he's had to do it during games. This has led to accusations of over-rotation, when in fact it's just Rafa trying to work out his new guys. In both of the last two seasons we've noticed the rotating decrease after the first month or so, some will say 'Oh Rafa's realised rotation doesn't work' but if that was the case why does he do it all again the next season? My opinion is that he doesn't want to have to rotate so much at the start of the season but he has to for the reasons outlined above.

Beyond the start of the season can anyone really say there's been that much of a problem with rotation? We've continued rotating throughout the season every time, and have gone on good winning streaks. The only time it gets a mention then is when reminiscing on our poor start, but no-one gives it any credit for the good results. My opinion is that we wouldn't neccessarily be getting those results if it wasn't for rotation & the extra rest it gives our players. Every season our squad seems to be one of the fittest around towards the end of the season, and this is reflected in our success in cup competitions. If you compile a league table based purely on results in the second half of the season Liverpool have won it for the last two seasons, again I would put this down to rotation. So the problem isn't our run in, it's our start to the season, and I explained the reasons why I believe this has been a problem.

by **zarababe** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:25 pm

Does rotation work only when we win ?

Does it fail when we lose or draw?

Or is it that we have become so used to winning, we have forgoten how to lose, and therefore crisis loom, and rotation becomes a focal point for discussion.

Could it actually be that we have suffered a dip in form or does rotation make us immune to 'dips in form'

Whatever team the boss puts out, it should be capable of performing well and trying to win. The players accept it

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:35 pm

our league position the last 3 years says it does not work

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:44 pm

peewee wrote:our league position the last 3 years says it does not work

ONLY if we play in one competition each year.

We dont.

Success can not only be measured in league position.

Its the most important, but not exclusive. We have won the Champions LEague and the FA Cup and been to Athens on the back of it.

I truly beleive that we have not previously had the players to win the league, we now have the players.

We have NOT LOST in the league, we have taken 5 points from 9 since everyone was saying we would win it after the Derby game.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:47 pm

we dropped 4 points in the last 3 league games against lower opposition due to us fielding a team that played like strangers, we were close to dropping another 2 against wigan, sorry but for me it isn't working.

if we were winning these games, or even looked like winning these games i could understand the argument for rotation, but the fact is we were shocking, in my opinion that is due to rotation, you think it is due to something else, time will tell

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:54 pm

peewee wrote:time will tell

Key point.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:02 pm

Havent we had enough rotation threads FFS !

Why request this thread Sabre ? Why not post it yourself.

Whats the point, we all know rotating a team around like headless chickens will never win you the league.

If it does I'll apologise to Lando especially and Sabre as words have been heated and also congrat you for sticking with the boss and acknowleging you and him were both right. But if not I would appreciate the same back.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:06 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
peewee wrote:our league position the last 3 years says it does not work

ONLY if we play in one competition each year.

We dont.

Success can not only be measured in league position.

Its the most important, but not exclusive. We have won the Champions LEague and the FA Cup and been to Athens on the back of it.

I truly beleive that we have not previously had the players to win the league, we now have the players.

We have NOT LOST in the league, we have taken 5 points from 9 since everyone was saying we would win it after the Derby game.

Starting with Riise and Pennant as our wide players against Villa on the first day of the season was a clear indicator that we DONT have the players to win the league.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:06 pm

he is spamming the forum mate, ignore him and the mods should deal with him

by **Sabre** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:11 pm

Bamaga man wrote:Havent we had enough rotation threads FFS !

Why request this thread Sabre ? Why not post it yourself.

Whats the point, we all know rotating a team around like headless chickens will never win you the league.

If it does I'll apologise to Lando especially and Sabre as words have been heated and also congrat you for sticking with the boss and acknowleging you and him were both right. But if not I would appreciate the same back.

Hi

It's been said more than once that we had enough of rotation, but the facts say that there have been intense debates about rotation in several threads, and some posters have mentioned that other topics eventually derived in rotation discussed.

So the point of the thread is to discuss rotation in one place, as I'm sure it will be brought back during the season.

Why didn't make a new thread about rotation myself? because I'm shy

Seriously, I preffered to request or survey whether it would be a good idea, IMHO it was necessary, but others might think that we've had enough of rotation, so I asked just in case.

I personally didn't feel offended by those comments like happy clappy and I didn't feel the debate was too hot, so there's no need to apologise.

However, I do apologise if in any of my comments of this weeks I offended anyone.

by **red37** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:15 pm

Thats him jibbed.

Liverpool FC Forum

The rotation thread - All "R" talk in here please!

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