Liverpool FC Forum

by **mattylfc** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:23 pm

Games such as last night against chelsea just makes me feel how much work is still to be done. We are by no means a million miles away and we showed patches last night of just how much we have improved over the last couple of years.

We were able to put out a pretty strong second string team last night but we still have too many players that are just not good enough. We are still far too reliant on the likes of Gerrard and Torres. When they dont play we really miss them.

We were very poor going forward last night. Crouch didnt perform but he also had no support at times which makes his job so much harder. Voronin was once again below average but i see yet another player playing out of position. When Voronin first came he was playing high up front and was getting on the end of things, grabbing a few goals. Since then he has been used on the right or left of a three and he hasnt looked comfortable at all. I dont think there is any point on him being on the pitch if he is not up front.

What got to me last night was the fact that we just gave up. We knew it was going to be difficult when we went to ten men but we might aswell have walked off the pitch. We had no threat going forward at all. Sissoko has been poor lately but atleast the guy was working his nuts off to try and get something from the game, didnt see many other players like that. Thats two or three times now we have just admited defeat, not good at all.

We know that Benitez has had to fill some gaps since arriving with his lack of money and strength in the squad but unless he gets the cash to spend big on some top class players or he can work some magic in the transfer market, we wont be going anywhere any time soon.

I would personally cash in on Carson, Sissoko and Crouch or Kuyt. If we can get a quality striker, Crouch or kuyt are good enought to be third choice. I would hang on to Voronin as 4th choice and try and get some cash for him at the end of the season.

I know quite a few people have said about selling Riise but i would only sell at the right price. If we couldnt get much for him he is definitely still good enough as a squad player and i would keep hold of him.

Kewell for me is a maybe, will be completely dependant on how he performs between now and the end of the season.

If we manage to hold on to Masch, he aswell as Gerrard, Alonso and Lucas are certainly good enough to fight for the two CM spots. If we can get 8M plus for Sissoko then i would bite their hands off.

The money that we can potentially get from the sales of Carson, sissoko and Crouch/Kuyt means that we can certainly do some dealings although most of it may be used on Masch.

Top quality striker should definitely be on Rafas shopping list along with a CB, LB and a Winger/Creative Player. Im not talking about average players like we have bought over the last few years, i mean four top quality players.

Every time of think we have turned a corner, we take a huge knock which takes us back to reality. The loss to Manure at home and Chelsea last night suggests that there is still plenty of work to be done. I do however trust that Rafa is the man to do it.

by **stmichael** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:57 pm

JoeTerp wrote:One thing that I would like to add as a POSSIBLE point that could go in Rafa's favor for the "at least one more year brigade" is the fact that he certainly is not going to make the team worse, and I have a very strong feeling that even if he were to be let go at the end of May 2009 that the team would be inherited in better hands than it is now. This is just saying that if he is sacked, there is a big risk with whoever comes in and at least you pretty much know that with Rafa, we almost certainly are not going to go backwards.

i agree with you but at the moment i don't like what i'm hearing. the latest rumour is that maureen is being lined up to take over from rafa in the summer, and that the offer from a "big club" that caused him to turn down the england job was from us.

as much as i hate to say it, and whether i think it would be wrong or not, it wouldn't surprise me at all if rafa went this summer.

by **Owzat** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:11 pm

stmichael wrote:i agree with you but at the moment i don't like what i'm hearing. the latest rumour is that maureen is being lined up to take over from rafa in the summer, and that the offer from a "big club" that caused him to turn down the england job was from us.

as much as i hate to say it, and whether i think it would be wrong or not, it wouldn't surprise me at all if rafa went this summer.

I remember back when Houllier was floundering, he was given another season and I think that was a mistake although consensus over getting rid may have been far from swung towards the sack.

I don't know if Rafa should stay or go, I'd like to think he will get it right, but I'm certainly not one of those who bleats the line about 'look at fergie' and thinks that means if given long enough anyone will succeed. Some of his buys, as shown last night, aren't good enough. I totted up the squad cost and it's well over £100m (still working on some nice stats for the whole Premiership) and we shouldn't be struggling to win some of the games we are. We haven't truly progressed from 2005/6, that's the problem I have with this.

Houllier took us so far he then struggled to make that final step and we ended up with a lot of shoddy rubbish in the squad that it's taken Rafa time to dispose of. Are we heading down that same road I ask myself? Will we end up with a squad that looks more like Crouchs, Sissokos, Voronins, and Pennants than Gerrards, Carraghers, Torres s and Reinas? Perhaps it is a case of the whole not adding up to the sum of the parts. We rate a lot of the players yet the team underperforms.

We're still plenty of strikers shy of boasting a good attacking line, given a choice between our's and spudz' I'd probably plump for spudz' on the grounds they have four strikers worth having while we only have the one. And if we can't score enough goals then any defensive error could cost us three points, two or even one. I'll be interested if our Premiership goals tally is better or worse than last year, we were way behind others on that front even if we were fourth or fifth in the league table (in terms of goals scored) And we're still only one point better off this season compared to the same fixtures last season, not quite the improvement we'd like to see and we've failed to improve since 2005/6. No good looking good on paper, it's results on the pitch that count and as little as some Liverpool fans may like stats, they show the improvement is more perceived than real

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:29 am

bigmick wrote:One or two are saying the boss will get the sack tonight, he won't and nor should he. Given though that we are in all probability now gone in the League (I know I alredy said this about four weeks ago but barring a miracle it is now so) and given the fact he has no cash by all accounts, I was just wondering what he should do.

This would be my plan.

1. Play Babel. We shelled out a lot of cash for him, he's raw but has ability. I've a hunch that he may be a player, lets find out. Lets play him from now on, at least then by the end of the season if he makes it, he'll be all bedded in for next season. Play him up top with Torres, as of now.

2. we need some cash from somewhere, and the obvious way to generate it is to sell Sissoko, Kuyt, Carson and possibly Crouch and Riise. Lets ship some out in december and the rest at the end of the season. We need the cash and it's time to get radical.

3. Play Lucas much more, and move Gerrard out to the right. I've always liked the captain out there, and he's about twenty five times as good as either Benayoun or Pennant.

4. Needless to say, lets cut down on the rotation. Now I know we kept the same team today and lost (and believe me it's only a matter of time before somebody comes on and say "so much for not rotating, where was the rhytm and fluency then eh? ) but we are now into season four of "rafa-style", and about to prove yet again that it's not the best policy if you want to win the league.

That's what I'd do. Play the kids a bit more, keep a more settled team and flog saome people who aren't good enough. Buy less players numerically, we don't need 22 first team "squad" players, we need 16 first team "proper" players. For instance sell Crouch and Kuyt and buy one player to replace them, not two. Sell Sissoko, Carson and Riise and buy a top class, young and quick centre hlaf, or a good young left winger.

We gave up the game at Reading and decided to think of the future. My point is it might be time to start thinking about next seasons challenge in the league as of now, and preparing ourselves for it.

Hard to know where to post my thoughts coz i've been on the slopes for the past week although it was some (small) consolation to sitting thoug the manc and Chelsea games I in a French bar! I think it's pretty clear we don't quite have the quality to compete right now. Too many players that don't quite cut it against the big guns. The likes of Kuyt, Arbeloa, Bennayoun, Crouch, Voronin and Riise can get the job done against 16 of the teams in the Premiership but they fall short against the other 3. I was VERY dissappointed with the performance against the mancs (more so than the result tbh). The contrast with the Pompey game yesterday was there to see. Yesterday the passing was incisive, the movement was good, players showing feet AND running in behind and everyone wanted the ball. Rewind to last Sunday's long ball fest when the ENTIRE team simply ran out of ideas. For the last 30 minutes I thought I was watching the American Civil War, it was a cavalry charge.

As for the points you have made. I agree that Babel probably should get a run in the side but i think it's unlikely he will play through the middle with Torres. Rafa tends to apply the chalk and cheese approach to his forwards and i suspect that Babel and Torres will/would be looking to make similar runs to eachother ie. playing on the shoulder, looking for the ball over the top, working the flanks etc.

Gerrard on the right works for me, or playing wherever he wants to go (as he did two seasons ago), particulalry with Kewll easing his way back into form and fitness. That's not to say he hasn't played well through the middle this season, on the contrary, he is having another excellent season for me but he is a MASSIVE upgrade on all our other options for that spot. I see a few clueless idiots have been banging on about "wanting the old Stevie back", "he's not the same player" etc in one of the other threads. Half-Wits who think the lad only plays well when he's doing his impression of Roy of the Rovers. Not even worth a reply. Unbelievable.

As for selling players on. It seems likely Momo will be on his way come January and that makes sense although I hope it is to a European side and not to the likes of the bitters. How much would we get for Kuyt? I agree on Lucas, i've been very impressed with the lad, he's settled very quickly and looks made for English football.

As for the stuff on rotation and the size and quality of the squad I can't see it happening mate. You'd be essentially saying to Rafa, "stop being Rafa".

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