Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:15 pm

It's a nice looking system on paper I must admit, and worth a try at Chelsea in the Carling Cup (after Sundays result I would perhaps be a little more conservative that the normal "throw the kids in" which we rightly employ in this competition).

The two main flaws at first glance is you are asking Gerrard to play in the pocket of the opposition holding midfielder, and giving them a spare centre half to deal with him. It can potentially make it very difficult to get the captain on the ball as he gets sucked into that, as I call it "Bermuda triangle" in front of the back four. I just can't get away from the notion that if I was setting up to play against Liverpool, that's where I'd most like to see Gerrard play.

The second slight problem which you always seem to get in whichever system you use which is not a conventional 4-4-2, is that you get funny spaces in and around the flanks and if you're not careful you can get pulled into a tactical disfigurement, almost a Gary Neville photofit. Chelsea I'm sure would ask Joe Cole and Sean Wright-Phillips to sit off the full back, in between Kewell and Aurelio, and Babel and Arbeloa respectively. This would pose the classic connundrum as they continually recieve the ball in acres, do you push the full-backs up and play 2-4-3-1, inviting the channel ball all-night, or do you drop your wingers in and revert back to 4-4-1-1? The second one is invariably the one that hapopens, as your 3-5-2 becomes a 5-4-1 and you get squeezed into boxes you don't want to go into. If Keegan or Ardiles were the manager, you'd just back your two wide men to do more damage than theirs and get ion with it. Perhaps if we had a Ginola or someone similar we could do the same but I don't think it's likely.

All that said, you can theoretically pick holes in any system, so I'd be inclined to give it a go, it looks good.

by **whylongball?** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:24 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Move Babel over to the right instead of Yossi and put Kewell on the left and I like the look of it as well (oh, and switch Carra and Agger around):

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Aurelio

Alonso Mascherano

Babel Gerrard Kewell

Torres

now that we have Kewell back i dont see why not? But i feel its better against the big teams. For lesser teams, just be direct with 442.
Also,SG is no Aimar so there exists a question for SG'role in this formation...
And last thing, no matter what formation you play, if you have :censored:

players you play :censored:

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:28 pm

bigmick wrote:It's a nice looking system on paper I must admit, and worth a try at Chelsea in the Carling Cup (after Sundays result I would perhaps be a little more conservative that the normal "throw the kids in" which we rightly employ in this competition).

The two main flaws at first glance is you are asking Gerrard to play in the pocket of the opposition holding midfielder, and giving them a spare centre half to deal with him. It can potentially make it very difficult to get the captain on the ball as he gets sucked into that, as I call it "Bermuda triangle" in front of the back four. I just can't get away from the notion that if I was setting up to play against Liverpool, that's where I'd most like to see Gerrard play.

The second slight problem which you always seem to get in whichever system you use which is not a conventional 4-4-2, is that you get funny spaces in and around the flanks and if you're not careful you can get pulled into a tactical disfigurement, almost a Gary Neville photofit. Chelsea I'm sure would ask Joe Cole and Sean Wright-Phillips to sit off the full back, in between Kewell and Aurelio, and Babel and Arbeloa respectively. This would pose the classic connundrum as they continually recieve the ball in acres, do you push the full-backs up and play 2-4-3-1, inviting the channel ball all-night, or do you drop your wingers in and revert back to 4-4-1-1? The second one is invariably the one that hapopens, as your 3-5-2 becomes a 5-4-1 and you get squeezed into boxes you don't want to go into. If Keegan or Ardiles were the manager, you'd just back your two wide men to do more damage than theirs and get ion with it. Perhaps if we had a Ginola or someone similar we could do the same but I don't think it's likely.

All that said, you can theoretically pick holes in any system, so I'd be inclined to give it a go, it looks good.

Fair points, mate. The simple alternative, of course, is to do what Saint's been suggesting for donkeys: go out and buy a proper, top class number 10 to partner Torres and then play a conventional 4-4-2. Sorted.

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:11 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Fair points, mate. The simple alternative, of course, is to do what Saint's been suggesting for donkeys: go out and buy a proper, top class number 10 to partner Torres and then play a conventional 4-4-2. Sorted.

Yeah that might be it

In modern football if you are going to do that though, you need goals to come from both wide midfielders. Now if Gerrard plays on the right you'll obviously get them from there, meaning that you are then potentially only two players short of a really good team. You need a top quality number ten, and a goalscoring left midfielder. Job done.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:29 pm

I am starting to like Stevie more on the right, especially with Alonso coming back and it can be argued that Yossi is now on the downswing of form after peaking and still no pennant back, even so this might be as strong as we can get right now with the current set up:

Reina
Arbeloa Carra Agger Aurelio
Mascherano Alonso
Gerrard Kewell
Babel
Torres
Subs: Itandje, Finnan/Riise, Lucas, Yossi, Crouch/Kuyt

I like how I could see anyone on the left making a deep run in and sending in a cross and Kewell and Babel switching it up and back again before the defense knew what hit 'em. Those Three in midfield can boss anybody around, and you could send Babel wide right and drop Stevie back a bit and Kewell more forward for a 4-3-3, because I think the jury is still out on how our most talented team could operate in that. I really wonder if thats what rafa has always had in mind because don't Babel, Voronin and Kuyt play wide in a 4-3-3 for their countries?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:46 pm

JoeTerp wrote:I am starting to like Stevie more on the right, especially with Alonso coming back and it can be argued that Yossi is now on the downswing of form after peaking and still no pennant back, even so this might be as strong as we can get right now with the current set up:

Reina
Arbeloa Carra Agger Aurelio
Mascherano Alonso
Gerrard Kewell
Babel
Torres
Subs: Itandje, Finnan/Riise, Lucas, Yossi, Crouch/Kuyt

I like how I could see anyone on the left making a deep run in and sending in a cross and Kewell and Babel switching it up and back again before the defense knew what hit 'em. Those Three in midfield can boss anybody around, and you could send Babel wide right and drop Stevie back a bit and Kewell more forward for a 4-3-3, because I think the jury is still out on how our most talented team could operate in that. I really wonder if thats what rafa has always had in mind because don't Babel, Voronin and Kuyt play wide in a 4-3-3 for their countries?

I prefer your team and formation Joe to the 4 -3 -3 which tends to leave the striker isolated and the wide players with little or nothing to aim for with crosses. To play 4 -3 -3 effectively you need outstanding wide players and support from 2 of your 3 midfielders. I also believe it tends to shorten the effective life of your striker. Most strikers in England that have played the lone striker role have tended to have a lot of injuries and short careers.

I think 4 -3-3 can be effective (Chelsea proved that) but I always prefer strikers to work in pairs, share the knocks and play off each other.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:59 pm

And if I do get a bit experimental:

Reina
Carra Hyypia Agger
Mascherano Alonso
Gerrard Aurelio
Kewell/Yossi
Torres Babel

yea Gerrard and Aurelio have to bust their :censored:

up and down all game, but you got three people with almost nothing on their mind by scoring goals.

by **Bermenstein** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:20 am

bigmick wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Fair points, mate. The simple alternative, of course, is to do what Saint's been suggesting for donkeys: go out and buy a proper, top class number 10 to partner Torres and then play a conventional 4-4-2. Sorted.

Yeah that might be it In modern football if you are going to do that though, you need goals to come from both wide midfielders. Now if Gerrard plays on the right you'll obviously get them from there, meaning that you are then potentially only two players short of a really good team. You need a top quality number ten, and a goalscoring left midfielder. Job done.

I totally agree that we need a top "No 10", but from the pool of players we got at the moment, I think Gerrard, Benayouin or even Kewell would fit in the position.

But whoever fills it, has to almost stay up there with the striker.

Kewell & Benayouin would have no problem staying up, but Gerrard can't help chasing back & hunting down oponents. I know thats part of his game, but we have Masherano doing that with alonso to a lesser extent.

But as we know, Gerrard has an great eye for goal, and is creative to make the chances for Torres. But its keeping him up there with Torres.

by **tel** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:49 am

Rafa is too hit and miss with transfers.

He should focus on buying one or two top draw players, and stop stuffing about with the others.

Sell Riise, Kewell, Kuyt, Pennant and Sissoko

Use the money to buy a decent left sided player.

Voronin is cover. Dont give him starts

Play Torres and babel as your strike team with cover from Voronin and Crouch.

Dont guve kuyt any starts. He can never choose the right option, loses the ball, cant hold it up, cant bring players into the game. Torres is basically operating as a lone striker with Kuyt chasing defenders when they have the ball.

Our central midfield is good. Mash and Gerrard, Alonso and Leiva....

Our defense is fine.

by **club_Levis** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:03 am

Bad Bob wrote:Move Babel over to the right instead of Yossi and put Kewell on the left and I like the look of it as well (oh, and switch Carra and Agger around):

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Aurelio

Alonso Mascherano

Babel Gerrard Kewell

Torres

I like your team Bad Bod but would switch Gerrard with Babel to haveBabel as supporting striker.This is due to the fact that Babel is simply not a winger.

by **Leonmc0708** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:20 am

bigmick wrote:My point is it might be time to start thinking about next seasons challenge in the league as of now, and preparing ourselves for it.

It always amazes me when Liverpool "fans" slag the players off for giving up without a fight, recently the manager was slagged off for throwing in the towel when we are losing at Reading with 2o minutes left and then we have threads liek this one.

Lets ive up on this season at the FUC.KING START OF DECEMBER !! and concentrate on next season.

I reckon that was what Rafa said at half time in Istanbul:

"Right boys, its time to give yourselves a chance to be heroes next season by playing a good half to prepare for pre seasons which starts in July"

JESUS H FUC.KING CHRIST

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:21 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:My point is it might be time to start thinking about next seasons challenge in the league as of now, and preparing ourselves for it.

It always amazes me when Liverpool "fans" slag the players off for giving up without a fight, recently the manager was slagged off for throwing in the towel when we are losing at Reading with 2o minutes left and then we have threads liek this one.

Lets ive up on this season at the FUC.KING START OF DECEMBER !! and concentrate on next season.

I reckon that was what Rafa said at half time in Istanbul:

"Right boys, its time to give yourselves a chance to be heroes next season by playing a good half to prepare for pre seasons which starts in July"

JESUS H FUC.KING CHRIST

Well said Leon :nod

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:30 am

s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:My point is it might be time to start thinking about next seasons challenge in the league as of now, and preparing ourselves for it.

It always amazes me when Liverpool "fans" slag the players off for giving up without a fight, recently the manager was slagged off for throwing in the towel when we are losing at Reading with 2o minutes left and then we have threads liek this one.

Lets ive up on this season at the FUC.KING START OF DECEMBER !! and concentrate on next season.

I reckon that was what Rafa said at half time in Istanbul:

"Right boys, its time to give yourselves a chance to be heroes next season by playing a good half to prepare for pre seasons which starts in July"

JESUS H FUC.KING CHRIST

Well said Leon

Have to admit rarely do I agree with Leon, as he usuallt doesnt talk much football.

But I do agree with his sentiments exactly there.

by **Leonmc0708** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:31 am

Bamaga man wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:My point is it might be time to start thinking about next seasons challenge in the league as of now, and preparing ourselves for it.

It always amazes me when Liverpool "fans" slag the players off for giving up without a fight, recently the manager was slagged off for throwing in the towel when we are losing at Reading with 2o minutes left and then we have threads liek this one.

Lets ive up on this season at the FUC.KING START OF DECEMBER !! and concentrate on next season.

I reckon that was what Rafa said at half time in Istanbul:

"Right boys, its time to give yourselves a chance to be heroes next season by playing a good half to prepare for pre seasons which starts in July"

JESUS H FUC.KING CHRIST

Well said Leon

Have to admit rarely do I agree with Leon, as he usuallt doesnt talk much football.

But I do agree with his sentiments exactly there.

Well you can fuc.k right off with that shi.t lad. :help

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:33 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:My point is it might be time to start thinking about next seasons challenge in the league as of now, and preparing ourselves for it.

It always amazes me when Liverpool "fans" slag the players off for giving up without a fight, recently the manager was slagged off for throwing in the towel when we are losing at Reading with 2o minutes left and then we have threads liek this one.

Lets ive up on this season at the FUC.KING START OF DECEMBER !! and concentrate on next season.

I reckon that was what Rafa said at half time in Istanbul:

"Right boys, its time to give yourselves a chance to be heroes next season by playing a good half to prepare for pre seasons which starts in July"

JESUS H FUC.KING CHRIST

Well said Leon

Have to admit rarely do I agree with Leon, as he usuallt doesnt talk much football.

But I do agree with his sentiments exactly there.

Well you can fuc.k right off with that shi.t lad.

Grow up lad.

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